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  1. #1
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Default Remove BtC thing

    Yes, nothing should be BtC or BtCoE.
    Even the most powerful gear shouldn't be BtC (I don't see any reason why anything has to be BtC).

    You shouldn't do any switching before opening chests (Shared bank should be enough).

    You should be able to farm gear for all your alts with your beloved character.
    The purpose of this game is having fun, isn't it?

    I don't mind if drop rate would be lowered though, i.e. I'm not asking for an easy button (actually don't really care about Easy or Hard button, just asking to remove Annoying button).

    Let me put it another way: is there anyone who likes BtC thing?
    (example: something finally dropped, but you are on the wrong toon)

    To clarify things, nothing should be BtC, including:
    - Heroic commendations
    - ES challenges matts
    - any epic items
    - any raid items
    - GS items
    - DT armor or runes
    - even upgraded Citw items
    ...

    Imagine two DDO games and you have to choose which you'll play:
    - current DDO
    - the same DDO (the same friends, gear, characters, bugs, ...), except all BtC items are BtA
    Which game you would play?
    Last edited by TheRobai; 01-17-2013 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Sidewaysgts86's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    Let me put it another way: is there anyone who likes BtC thing?
    I do. Not signed.

  3. #3
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    BtC on collectables I'll sign, but that's because I don't care for epic grinds that upon completion yield you a mediocre item (which most collectable gear is). I'm 50/50 on materials.

    On Raid gear - not signed... I have almost no raid gear on my characters, so this is not a self-preservation measure; but some things need to retain their value. Raid Gear is in that category. If all raid gear was BtA, it'd be like the first tier Chronoscope gear - run a few times, get 2-3 sets, stop running the content.

    I _do_ like what they're doing with quest gear starting in eveningstar - BTCoE for a lot, some (end rewards) EDIT: (corrected) BtC, other end rewards BtA.

    There's a balance to be struck for sure, but removing BtC altogether ain't the right answer.

    EDIT: From a business/game designer standpoint, you want SOME repetition to avoid the appearance of lack of content. That's also why I like the concept of EN, EH, and EE gear that varies in its quality. Yes, I am running that quest again, but at a different skill level for a different purpose. Once those get fixed, I think they will result in the "feel" of broader content base (Druid chain for my ML 16 item, Druid chain again at 20 for my ML 20 version, etc).
    Last edited by fco-karatekid; 01-18-2013 at 08:41 AM.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    100% signed for things like dragontouched runes and for commendations.

    Not signed for raid loot, greensteel, epic items etc.

  5. #5
    Forum Turtle
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    BTC has a function in a game like this, to keep us playing. Since the dev's job is not only to create content to entertain us, but also to keep us playing, I don't see them removing this. Raids would peter out since we'd all have all the stuff, and new players would have a hard time getting vet players into their groups to help them learn since the vets don't need anything from them anymore.

    It also has the side benefit of fostering goodwill among the community. Who doesn't remember that barb in that one raid that pulled that item x that was awesome for your caster and gave it to you? Or whatever class applies to the readers of this post. While it's true we see plenty of loot drama, with this change we would see far less sharing than we do now. I don't say no sharing, there are always good people or those who just literally have everything, but I do honestly believe there would be a great deal less.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    BtC items don't make me run content more times.

    If all BtC items become BtA then I would still farm them for each of my character, because obviously I'm not going to transfer items each time I log in to different toon.
    The only difference is that I would farm them with my beloved character instead, i.e. have fun.

    For example, Crystal Cove items are BtA, but I'll gladly run it again and again since some of those items I want to have on many characters (Ring is useful for almost all, Trinket is very nice for my Rogue or Wiz).

    Since we have so small bank space then farming BtC items even for your main toon is quite limited.
    It means that I skip some raids because it drops BtC items (I would join IF it dropped BtA items, even if those items not that important).

    For those, who say that BtC thing is good, because then someone would pass you loot if he is on the wrong class.
    Well, passing loot is a subject to drama. I hope that this feature will be removed some day (but maybe it's just me).
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not against passing loot (this doesn't really matter to me), but I really really really hate any kind of drama. So, if something reduces drama I'll always vote for it (a very nice job by devs was making tome upgrades BtA - a lot of drama was reduced this way).
    Passing loot can be a good thing, when a group of friends are well geared and one of them is looking for one item, then passing loot would help here. This can be solved by just increasing drop rate, but then again, nobody will run it

    A much simpler solution would be BtA. You just run quests for fun with your preferred toon and get loot on the way for all your toons (even if at the cost of decreased drop rate, it would be still much better than BtC).

    Another solution would be giving more BtC bank space (I mean being able to buy more), but it doesn't look like it will ever happen. The threads in my signature are dying.

  7. #7
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    /not signed.

    I will still play the same DDO, and still enjoy the game even with BtC.

    To answer your questions:

    The purpose of this game is having fun, isn't it?

    It is fun. Just because you are not having fun, doesn't mean everyone else is not having fun.

    Which game you would play?

    The current DDO, because of my previous answer. It is fun.
    Last edited by Musouka; 01-20-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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  8. #8
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Disagree and always will

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  9. #9
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    commendations, challenge ings ext should be bta. However btc keeps people running the raids for gear. MA as an example doesn't get ran because the gear isn't bound ext. For raids that don't have good items for some classes (citw I'm looking at you for divine gear) they just need to add some better items so that all toons have a reason to run. If they did this the system would be much better and eliminate the need for toon swapping ext. I don't think I've seen an mmo that was all bta for items and this is for a reason.

  10. #10

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    I dont understand why anything that could be considered an "ingredient" would be BtC...

    But the end crafted items? raid Items? Ultra rare drops?

    Yes. they should absolutely be Bound to Character.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fco-karatekid View Post
    If all raid gear was BtA, it'd be like the first tier Chronoscope gear - run a few times, get 2-3 sets, stop running the content.
    If all raid gear was BtA and dropped like it does in Chrono that would be true. There are people who have gone 80 (th- THOUSAND!!!) runs without seeing a single Torc drop in a chest, removing BtC would not result in everyone having a Torc.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle
    BTC has a function in a game like this, to keep us playing. Since the dev's job is not only to create content to entertain us, but also to keep us playing, I don't see them removing this. Raids would peter out since we'd all have all the stuff, and new players would have a hard time getting vet players into their groups to help them learn since the vets don't need anything from them anymore.
    But we've already seen some raids peter out (Titan, Cannith), while other raids without significant BtC gear (such as Tempest Spine) are still going strong. No amount of BtC will make people pursue inferior gear in inferior content. Clumsily enforcing BtC in a situation where they know the players will hate it (challenge components) does not accomplish the goal of keeping us playing because it fosters an openly antagonistic relationship.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    100% signed for things like dragontouched runes and for commendations.

    Not signed for raid loot, greensteel, epic items etc.
    Very well-put and I could not agree more.
    In an election, always vote for the candidate who likes big butts....because, you know, they cannot lie.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    For raids that don't have good items for some classes (citw I'm looking at you for divine gear) they just need to add some better items so that all toons have a reason to run.
    The devs seem to be unable to force themselves to hand out decent gear to divine casters. I believe they tried to "fix" the gear issue with CitW once. The divine gear is still worthless. So is the new named item that drops for the update 16 pack: Forgotten Light. I'm not going to melee with a one handed weapon, it requires that your alignment be good (on a caster?), and doesn't even include Superior Lore. I have better lootgen gear that I bought from the vendors.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    Yes, nothing should be BtC or BtCoE.
    Even the most powerful gear shouldn't be BtC (I don't see any reason why anything has to be BtC).
    Well, there surely is no reason to have BtC in the game. Some people seem to like it because it forces others to run raids with them, when those other people would prefer to run something else. Really, its just a poor game mechanic that attempts to patch over poor content design. Attempting to force people to do things they would prefer not to do is how you take one of the most valuable pieces of fantasy related Intellectual Property that exists and turn it into nothing more than a niche MMO.

    BtCoE is nice because you can trade/auction it, but I'd be fine with BtA. I'd even be fine with BtA/BtCoE that would let you transfer it to an alt and then enforce the BtCoE mechanic. Anything is better than the current BtC.

  14. #14
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    If Turbine ever does allow BtC to go away, it will only do so with a store item.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Some form of item destruction is needed in a game that keeps spewing out tens of thousands of new items a day in chests. BtC is a much more popular mechanic for doing this than any of the other systems (unavoidable permanent item damage, time limited items like Devil Assault augments, or the Zygna-style 'every week we obsolete all the old items' etc).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  16. #16
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    I'm currently grinding out 20 reaver's fate completions to get what will be my fifth napkin, on a toon who will be doing his wizard lives for the next 3 lives. Meanwhile I have 3 stormreaver napkins in character banks on casters who have now slotted adamantine dragon cloaks. Those napkins in bank are not only a waste of my inventory space, but potentially 3 other players' napkins. If my napkin was bound to account, I could have rolled off these cloaks, rather than used them for a short term on each character before sentencing them to an eternity imprisoned in character banks of level 25 toons. Finally, the 4th napkin is slotted in a lvl 20 artificer who has become a bank toon. If this item was account bound, I can say that at least 4 more people would have a napkin, and I would be 15 levels deep into a wizard life on my current project. What is fun or positive about forcing a player to grind out a raid once, let alone grind it out once per character. I will go a step further and say that quest completions should be account based. If I have run 10 shrouds each on 10 toons, why do I not deserve an ACCOUNT bound essence of cleansing? How is 20 runs on one character a greater achievement than 1 run on 20 characters? I have always disliked Bound to Character on acquire. Despite all this, not sure if I would demand its elimination. I would accept an overhaul of the "who what when where and why" aspects of binding.

  17. #17
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    BTC - Named gear from Raids
    BTA - Named gear from Dungeons
    Unbound - Random loot from anywhere

    A pretty simple system.

  18. #18
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I would just settle with BtA on aquire, then BtC on equip mysterious bauble.

  19. #19
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I think BtC has a place and that place is generally raids and collectible turn in gear like dragonscale armor. I do think Turbine overuses the BTC mechanic when BtA or BtCOE would suffice. I'm looking at heroic commendations here. The weapons in the raid are already BtC. That is the bound component. The coms could very easily be BtA and fall in line with Shroud, ToD and LoB and have one BtC component with BtA additional pieces to promote additional runs while not necessarily on one specific toon. Eveningstar challenge ingredients should also be BtA.

    I disagree with removing BtC completely, but I do think that Turbine should at least have an in house discussion whenever non raid loot is about to be made BtC on live just to make sure there is an actual game balancing reason why it has to be done and it's not just some whimsical dartboard choice made by one person. There should always be a push to make items as "unboud as possible" and use binding status only when necessary.
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  20. #20
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eighnuss View Post
    I'm currently grinding out 20 reaver's fate completions to get what will be my fifth napkin, on a toon who will be doing his wizard lives for the next 3 lives. Meanwhile I have 3 stormreaver napkins in character banks on casters who have now slotted adamantine dragon cloaks. Those napkins in bank are not only a waste of my inventory space, but potentially 3 other players' napkins. If my napkin was bound to account, I could have rolled off these cloaks, rather than used them for a short term on each character before sentencing them to an eternity imprisoned in character banks of level 25 toons. Finally, the 4th napkin is slotted in a lvl 20 artificer who has become a bank toon. If this item was account bound, I can say that at least 4 more people would have a napkin, and I would be 15 levels deep into a wizard life on my current project. What is fun or positive about forcing a player to grind out a raid once, let alone grind it out once per character. I will go a step further and say that quest completions should be account based. If I have run 10 shrouds each on 10 toons, why do I not deserve an ACCOUNT bound essence of cleansing? How is 20 runs on one character a greater achievement than 1 run on 20 characters? I have always disliked Bound to Character on acquire. Despite all this, not sure if I would demand its elimination. I would accept an overhaul of the "who what when where and why" aspects of binding.
    Bad story... If you feel remorse over 4 others not having the napkin, then why did you take it in the first place? Sorry, your argument is flawed. Obviously since it's just sitting in banks, you didn't need it.
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