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  1. #81
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimkj View Post
    No. Coal Chamber is fine, once you've learnt you can't just run in a straight line like every other quest. Learn the quest, don't ruin other people's fun because you can't do it.
    agree

    Quote Originally Posted by bigolbear View Post
    sod off, ye whiney beggars
    double agree
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  2. #82
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    I just did Coal Chamber again last night, solo on my sorcerer for a stone. I still don't like it.


    The only problem I have is the screwy nature of the ledges. Very often when I jump, some mysterious force pushes me sideways and I fall. So I try not to jump. Then I encounter ledges that seem low enough to climb, but when I push into them my character sort of scrabbles sideways without climbing and I fall. It doesn't make any sense and it pretty much ruins the quest for me because there is so much climbing to do.

    It's like if I was going to go up the stairs in my house, but at the bottom step I simply couldn't lift my foot, so I just walked into it and slid sideways. So I tried to leap up a few inches and instead inexplicably floated five feet to my right.

    I did the quest last night on solo with my level 20 sorcerer and it still took me forty minutes. I probably fell only three or four times, but I have to move so slowly (a moment's lag caused me to fall at least twice) that it takes a while.

    For some reason, the ledge at the very top of the shaft, just before the final boss fight, is one of the worst. I don't want to jump because I've been pushed sideways so many times it's infuriating. But when I try to just push against the ledge so I will climb it (it isn't very high) my character will just sort of scrabble sideways and I'll fall.


    Fix whatever is the issue with the ledges (I suspect it has something to do with the overhead ledges) and that would be a great quest. As it stands now, I hate it (solely because of the ledge issues) and I only run it when I need a stone for GS.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

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  3. #83
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Run it at 19 or higher and you won't break streak, if you pre ordered the expansion, you could run it at 18 with the panther and it won't break streak.
    So I've gotta wait till Lvl 18 {at the earliest} to run Tor and Reaver's? {Lvl 14/15 quests}.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the groups ive been in, some experienced vets/TRs and some straight new players, the longest on elite its taken is 1:15. average time is :45. never been in a group that didnt care about full xp, unless no trapper, which included killing bats till conquest.

    quite a few times ive joined groups where i became the guide. i would set the pace according to party makeup and experience. typically still get done around :45.

    what i often do is join a group running elite. almost never does the group want to go back and run hard/norm, which is fine because i can solo it the way i want to on those difficulties. about 1 1/2 years a go i used to solo run Coal and RWTD on norm in :45 once everyday for several months for ingredients.
    And I distinctly remember saying how 50+ Minutes is the shortest time I've spent in Coal {54 I believe but can't be sure}.

    Your average time is 45? I'll buy this but it's not much quicker than mine is it?

    I've never HAD to wait at the Cube btw - We've always had conquest with no issues!
    Some people still insist on waiting and getting conquest there - even though we're close enough that the mobs in the end-fight will give it.


    As for Tomb of the Tormented - When the devs fix the Red-Boxing of Bloody, Shadow and Cursed Crypts I'll complain about Flagging {frankly I find Tormented the least annoying quest in that chain personally - Blighted being easily the worst}.
    For now my only issue is that no-one EVER joins Shadow Flags! {Love having to solo these at level}!

  4. #84
    Community Member Mr_Ed7's Avatar
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    Default I can't!

    I can't play basketball. Therefore let us have no more of this "basket-ball".
    That being said....

    A guildie and I PUGGED COAL CHAMBER... last night with two guys from two different guilds.

    Yes, we died.
    Yes, we fell.
    Yes, we got lost.

    YET....
    WE LAUGHED & HAD FUN THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE 25,000xp run.

    jus'say'n
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  5. #85
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    D&D has always been about socializing, creative and collaborative problem solving, and character development, with varying degrees of attention paid to roleplaying and meta-gaming.

    What PnP D&D session did anybody here ever attend where your platform game twitch skills meant anything? And why would a flagging mission for the most important raid in DDO be heavily influenced by platform game twitch skills?

    When they were adjusting Shroud's difficulty, why weren't pathing issues for CC also addressed?
    Last edited by EnjoyTheJourney; 01-19-2013 at 09:42 AM.

  6. #86
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    The only problem I have with it is when jumping and you bounce off.

  7. #87
    Community Member Mr_Ed7's Avatar
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    Default This!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    The only problem I have with it is when jumping and you bounce off.
    This is the real issue with the quest!
    There seems to be areas, corners, out-croppings that are designed purposely to knock you off DESPITE your best efforts and/or experience or knowledge of the quest!
    The One True Fighter/Wizard Father of the Alliance General Orcneas of ORC

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  8. #88
    Community Member Mr_Ed7's Avatar
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    Default Twitch-twitch

    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post
    What PnP D&D session did anybody here ever attend where your platform game twitch skills meant anything? And why would a flagging mission for the most important raid in DDO be heavily influenced by platform game twitch skills?

    When they were adjusting Shroud's difficulty, why weren't pathing issues for CC also addressed?
    Comparing D&D to DDO tends to be fruitless endeavor, HOWEVER...

    YES I have played table-top games where jump & climb skills combined with LUCK are of paramount importance.

    As far as the Shroud goes.... Make it as interestring and as FUN as the flagging quests and I will run it more.

    As always though it comes down to whether you like chocolate, vanilla or pistachio.
    The One True Fighter/Wizard Father of the Alliance General Orcneas of ORC

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  9. #89
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    So I've gotta wait till Lvl 18 {at the earliest} to run Tor and Reaver's? {Lvl 14/15 quests}.


    Huh? Wasn't talking about tor or reavers I was talking about coal, but a level 14 could be ran at 17 without breaking streak if that's what you wanted to do. Not saying it's the best option but if you are dead set on not breaking streak (which is foolish unless you can power thru elites with no problem) those are your options.

  10. #90
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7 View Post
    Comparing D&D to DDO tends to be fruitless endeavor, HOWEVER...

    YES I have played table-top games where jump & climb skills combined with LUCK are of paramount importance.

    As far as the Shroud goes.... Make it as interestring and as FUN as the flagging quests and I will run it more.

    As always though it comes down to whether you like chocolate, vanilla or pistachio.
    I'm not certain my meaning came through.

    In PnP, you roll a dice to determine what happens or you use your problem solving skills to find a way around having to rely on a dice roll. You don't pick up a computer mouse or a gamepad and then have your platform game twitch skills determine how things go. That's the key point of distinction.

    Everybody's mileage will vary, of course, and I get that some like to have their Mario skills challenged. There are also a lot of players for whom that is such a large change from PnP D&D that it's not a particularly welcome part of DDO. It's going to be particularly disappointing, for those who don't like it, to have Mario skills be a central feature of any particularly important content. And, shroud is an important raid for the game, especially for newer players.

    Fixing pathing in CC so that it's less about Mario skills (and luck) would be a very welcome change.

  11. #91
    Community Member Niwareka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    .......
    Very often when I jump, some mysterious force pushes me sideways and I fall. So I try not to jump. Then I encounter ledges that seem low enough to climb, but when I push into them my character sort of scrabbles sideways without climbing and I fall. ....
    Mobrien, Ivan, Mr Ed, and others:
    The trouble is that the game engine sees you as a cylinder that is both a bit taller and a bit wider than you look on the screen. If this cylinder rubs against a wall it gets pushed away. So the answer, which I have tried reliably, is to remember that I am fatter and taller than I look. When I run up ramps I stay near the OUTSIDE edge (despite the natural tendency to hug the wall) and when I jump I steer slightly away from the wall and curve back in for the landing (remember you can steer in mid flight).

    Don't have "Jump" but do have FF - your jumps will be longer and flatter and you won't hit the top of your imaginary cylinder on the underside of the ramp above you. With only a little practice it becomes so easy you wonder why you were worried about it.

    Now for the other question - why design a quest where the landscape doesn't fit the game engine? There's Turbine for you - better on inspiration than on execution!
    www.LegendsGuild.eu - on Thelanis
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  12. #92
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    I know all that,I dont bounce off often,but when I do its more annoying than air eles in sleet storm.
    Always have ff on my boots so when I put ff on I lose 30% striding.
    Sometimes when Im walking parallel to the wall I jump forward and it bounces me off without me turning left or right.
    Last edited by Ivan_Milic; 01-19-2013 at 11:05 AM.

  13. #93
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    I speculate it would be hard to code, but it would be nice if your dex score would influence the difficulty of the climb. At least give you a bigger zone of error for falling.

    It's frustrating for my 30 dex toon to have to endure my spastic attempts at keyboard and mouse control!

  14. #94
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    I know all that,I dont bounce off often,but when I do its more annoying than air eles in sleet storm.
    Always have ff on my boots so when I put ff on I lose 30% striding.
    Sometimes when Im walking parallel to the wall I jump forward and it bounces me off without me turning left or right.
    Cannith boots, mummified bat, or Expedious Retreat scrolls fix that problem.

  15. #95
    Community Member Mr_Ed7's Avatar
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    Default Yet without it....

    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post
    I'm not certain my meaning came through.

    In PnP, you roll a dice to determine what happens or you use your problem solving skills to find a way around having to rely on a dice roll. You don't pick up a computer mouse or a gamepad and then have your platform game twitch skills determine how things go. That's the key point of distinction.

    Everybody's mileage will vary, of course, and I get that some like to have their Mario skills challenged. There are also a lot of players for whom that is such a large change from PnP D&D that it's not a particularly welcome part of DDO. It's going to be particularly disappointing, for those who don't like it, to have Mario skills be a central feature of any particularly important content. And, shroud is an important raid for the game, especially for newer players.

    Fixing pathing in CC so that it's less about Mario skills (and luck) would be a very welcome change.
    The running and jumping (no real climbing yet) depict what an ultra-humanbeing may move and act.

    If we were not running and jumping like "Mario" than we should all be playing on a flat, even, plain.

    I suppose I don't see how you can justify, NOT having a quest where skills in leaping and running are of paramount importance for flagging.

    Sounds appropriate. If you can not do it.... I guess you ain't getting flagged.
    But surely this is not an impossabiity. I wonder how many times a day COAL CHAMBER is done succesfully 100's? How many players successfully make the leap every day? Thousands?

    Your argument is, that it should be made EASIER as far a movements go, so that one can be flagged for a raid. You don't HAVE to raid.

    I would rather do COAL than the SHROUD (yawn) any day.
    The One True Fighter/Wizard Father of the Alliance General Orcneas of ORC

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  16. #96
    Community Member ristretto93's Avatar
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    I will take my Coal Chamber exactly how it is. Don't change a thing. Not only my favorite flagging quest, but in general one of my favorite quests in the game...
    Originally from Thelanis, now on...
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  17. #97
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Cannith boots, mummified bat, or Expedious Retreat scrolls fix that problem.
    Not if you do it before lvl 18,dont have sorrowdusk or dont carry exp retreat,think you mean clicky or wands.

  18. #98
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Not if you do it before lvl 18,dont have sorrowdusk or dont carry exp retreat,think you mean clicky or wands.
    There's a cloak in sands with ff as well, I do mean scrolls, which are sold in the market, umd 20, if you don't have umd angers step has it as a clicky. There are multiple options. Though honestly with how much xp is available at low level, I'm shocked anyone argues for doing vale pre 18.

  19. #99
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Not if you do it before lvl 18,dont have sorrowdusk or dont carry exp retreat,think you mean clicky or wands.
    also haste pots/spell, FF can come as a clicky or item as boots or ring, plus what also was suggested previously. not sure if FF can be crafted. i dont do that.

  20. #100
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    also haste pots/spell, FF can come as a clicky or item as boots or ring, plus what also was suggested previously. not sure if FF can be crafted. i dont do that.
    It can

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