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  1. #21
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    * Raid flagging should not be any more difficult or onerous than any other quests. Yet, so many quests in the game are clearly designed with a balance that accounts for green steel items, so those items shouldn't be as difficult to get as they are, or all the other quests should be rebalanced. Frankly, my preference would be to remove green steel from the game entirely.
    woah. lets not get all crazy now

  2. #22
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    I used to hate coal chamber. I have a real-life irrational fear of heights and almost zero Mario-fu. My hands would shake and I'd sweat profusely when making the climb harrassed by trogs. Then I soloed it 3 times strait to become more comfortable with it. That worked, and now I'm fine with it. It takes me 20-35 minutes for an elite run. I think I saw video of a 9 min run (probably normal).

    I think it's good to have a variety of quests. Shroud flagging shows a very nice variety. If everything were Ritual of Sacrifice, the game would be that much the lesser.

    Now, I need to buckle down and learn the Pit, Inferno, the cruicible maze, and that sentinals chain one--the name of which escapes me.

    Now what's this about GH flagging changes?
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
    I can be found on Orien. My more active toons are Cilon, Solstone in Your Pack, and sometimes Acroyer.

  3. #23
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    When did they remove Crucible from flagging requirements?
    Quote Originally Posted by voxson5 View Post
    Removing crucible?!
    They haven't. Yet.

    However, it's on Lamania preview right now.
    53461

  4. #24
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    I just wish they would fix the "jump straight ahead and get inexplicably pushed sideways and fall" problem.


    If that wasn't an issue there wouldn't be an issue with Coal Chamber.
    Thisis my only problem with this quest- and raiding the giants' vault. If there's a visible overhang, ok fine, but in many places on both of these, the visuals don't match the physical.

  5. #25
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Not sure why everyone hates coal, it's not hard, it's not fast but it's not horribly slow either, (about 20 mins), the jumps well you need some practice at ddo mario skills but that's not that bad. Honestly it's pretty rare that I see someone fall lately. This is my experience with it, so when I see people saying remove it, it sounds like "It's to hard, want quests where I walk into a room, pull a lever, loot and repeat." I say make more trogs spawn in the shafts.

  6. #26
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Not sure why everyone hates coal, it's not hard, it's not fast but it's not horribly slow either, (about 20 mins), the jumps well you need some practice at ddo mario skills but that's not that bad. Honestly it's pretty rare that I see someone fall lately. This is my experience with it, so when I see people saying remove it, it sounds like "It's to hard, want quests where I walk into a room, pull a lever, loot and repeat." I say make more trogs spawn in the shafts.
    and have them cast sleet storm.

  7. #27
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post

    * Raid flagging should not be any more difficult or onerous than any other quests.
    Great idea! So then people can flag for a raid without having even basic skills and can complain that the raid itself it's too hard and should be dumbed down. I think they should add a big EASY button on the quest window, so people can just click it and get xp, favor and loot from the quest; i mean, since when people are supposed to earn something by actually working for it?
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  8. #28
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    [snip]
    * Raid flagging should not be any more difficult or onerous than any other quests.[snip]
    The reason raid flagging should be more difficult is to prepare you for the even more difficult raid, you might say its to separate the boys from the men.
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

    (Fighter->Fighter->Fighter->Monk->Monk->Barbarian->Paladin->Ranger)

  9. #29
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    and have them cast sleet storm.
    and heightened grease!
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
    I can be found on Orien. My more active toons are Cilon, Solstone in Your Pack, and sometimes Acroyer.

  10. #30
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Now that they easy buttoned Gianthold by replacing crucible with cabal in the flagging loop, the forumites start in on the next batch of flagging quests. Lets just replace them all with carnival rides.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #31
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    The reason raid flagging should be more difficult is to prepare you for the even more difficult raid, you might say its to separate the boys from the men.
    This.

    (until they start complaining the raid needs to be easier too)
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #32
    Hatchery Hero Aedra1's Avatar
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    When I first started playing, I hated coal chamber with a passion, now it's my favorite of the flagging quests. Sleeping dust on the other hand is annoying.
    Still here.... Deal with it.

    I don't have an attitude problem, you just can't stand that I'm adorable.

  13. #33
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    Just pulled a level 14 char to the next level by running a couple of Coal. Chambers on my soloing own,
    not the worst choice for such as regards xp - just a banisher of your choice and off you go.
    But do kill all mobs - and kill stuff while going down from first to second miniboss (or face dungeon alert).
    Btw. snapped up 3500 bats now i was there anyway.

    CC was always my favourite Vale quest, because its easy,
    it has no impossible escort that makes a good party obligatory even on norm,
    has no mobs that one cant kill
    and also 2-handed-fighting chars can see where they go,
    -- and it has no air ellies on the ledges

    OK .. the Shroud may have better loot .... ;D
    Last edited by oldkraft2; 01-28-2013 at 06:33 AM.

  14. #34
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    I know it's easy, that doesn't make it any less cruddy of a quest. It's just a dumb, tedious, bland, slog through some ugly caverns replete with horrible ramps that you can't jump too high on for fear of having to start form the stupid bottom again. It's junk.

    It's the type of scenario that would have your players walking out the door if you ran it in a real life D&D game.
    Maybe you should look to play say a more "linear" game

  15. #35
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    Personally I think Coal chamber is the 2nd hardest flagging quest to solo and the 3rd hardest in a group.

    Hardest solo now is Running with the Devils. Solo on elite the damage can be pretty brutal. In a group if people don't all go at the same pace you can end up pulling too much for the group you're in.

    The hardest in a group though is without question Sleeping Dust. Solo it's fine...you just don't kill spiders after you get the books. But getting a full group of people to not kill something? Definitely the most challenging part of the flagging for Shroud. :P

    I honestly think Coal Chamber's fairly easy. I'd rather run it than run RitSac when I'm solo. RitSac the guy can die and you get a fail. If you're on a defensive-minded class with less DPS that can be a problem. Oh, and Air Ele's. I don't like Air Ele's. And Rainbow I just find annoying. I don't have any problems with it but if I wanted the challenge of playing blind I'd just adjust my monitor. So sure, take Coal out of the flagging, don't take it out...but it's the one I'm going to be most likely to farm if I need some more XP in the range.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  16. #36
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Now that they easy buttoned Gianthold by replacing crucible with cabal in the flagging loop, the forumites start in on the next batch of flagging quests. Lets just replace them all with carnival rides.
    Yep. Ill be seeing this kind of thing from time to time in Suggestions and Ideas now that changes are willing to be made.

  17. #37
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    I know it's easy, that doesn't make it any less cruddy of a quest. It's just a dumb, tedious, bland, slog through some ugly caverns replete with horrible ramps that you can't jump too high on for fear of having to start form the stupid bottom again. It's junk.

    It's the type of scenario that would have your players walking out the door if you ran it in a real life D&D game.
    Naaaa, plotless linear grinding for XP might get tabletop players to stop showing up, but ive moduled quests similar to coal chamber over several sessions and it was quite enjoyable.

    DDO has always separated itself from "those other games" with quests that require more than "move forward and kill" tactics. The Pit, Crucible, and Coal Chamber, are all quests I loved to take friends I used to recommend this game to through in order to show them the difference between a DDO quest and a WOW or EQ dungeon. Each time one of the quests where people actually have to think in gets dumbed down, this game starts to feel more and more like a rat smashing montage with "live to win" playing in the background.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #38
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    What would make this a "fun" quest is widening the ramps in the shafts. If we were able to navigate easier in the shafts, with less falling off, then people wouldn't find the quest as bothersome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  19. #39
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    This thread is depressing.

    The quest is called Coalescence Chamber, right, but there is more than one chamber. The quest isn't called ChamberS. Please make the quest one room, we step forward to trigger, cast an ice storm, wait 14 seconds, collect loot.

    Actually, stepping forward is too hard. Please just give single room with chest in it, at arm's length. Actually, chests require a separate step to open them. Please invent a loot bucket instead, so we don't have to go to the trouble to open the lid. Oh, and don't make us run to the quest, pls put door in Harbor. No, better, please put door on Guild ship. But the door is a separate step, so please skip that step and please put chest on Guild ship. Kthxbai.

    I'm going to make a thread about Detour. It is ok, but too long and too many fights. It would be more rational and straightforward if the, you know, detour was removed. Please get on that asap.

    I guess you'd have to rename it, what, Road? Hey, just the price of progress.
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  20. #40
    Hero Nahual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post

    * Raid flagging should not be any more difficult or onerous than any other quests. Yet, so many quests in the game are clearly designed with a balance that accounts for green steel items, so those items shouldn't be as difficult to get as they are, or all the other quests should be rebalanced. Frankly, my preference would be to remove green steel from the game entirely.
    This is why there are now shroud loot gen weapons, more or less. With the absolute minimum level on them.
    Kasik ~20 Rogue~ Fui 18/2 brb/ftr ~ Emmeryl 20 Clr Hilcias 20 Sorc
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