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  1. #321
    Community Member Eistander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    Also ignores the option to run it at level 17 on Casual/Normal and not affect their BB.

    We also must not forget that 1st lifers with terrible gear and builds still need Elite BB.

    That said, none of this changes the fact that its not a big issue that Turbine is swapping the dungeons needed to key for Reavers Fate
    Don't forget to add all those people who want to solo everything to key for a raid which involves playing as a group, instead of a crew of individuals trying to make something happen. Hell, it was mentioned a bunch of times now, but people are still not seeing the aspect of the valve that can be turned to turn off the undertow of the swim.. instead, even today, people are insisting on someone with crazy-evasion for elite and needing a guide for elite-only runs at level..

    Just waiting to see how badly the enhancement pass goes (yes, being a pessimist gauging entirely by the direction this game is headed) will make or break it for me.. and it won't be another game that would pull me away, but rather the game itself pushing me away.

    I'm done now lol..

    /lurk
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  2. #322
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eistander View Post
    Hell, it was mentioned a bunch of times now, but people are still not seeing the aspect of the valve that can be turned to turn off the undertow of the swim.. instead, even today, people are insisting on someone with crazy-evasion for elite and needing a guide for elite-only runs at level..
    Exactly.

    It's so funny to see those crucible lfms with "need evasion"; the swim,even on elite, is perfectly doable without evasion; you just need to avoid spikes (it requires some skill) and even upon hitting them a couple of times you can always find a save spot and drink pots until you are at full hp again ( it requires having a decent number of hp, 6 con elves can still do the swim but they should avoid spikes )

    Stop using the excuse of crucicble making the flagging process hard: what's making the flagging process hard (just for some people) is the fact that they want to run crucible at lvl on elite when they are clearly not ready for it.

    The new invasion example in some posts is perfect: it's a quest required to flag, the last fight on elite might be a pain, yet there were a lot of people flagging for tod by running new invasion on hard, normal or casual. I can't see why people couldn't flag for GH raid by running crucible on casual.
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  3. #323
    Community Member Ballyspringer's Avatar
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    /Signed

    I love crucible - and yes I've failed it many a time when I was new and still learning it and cursed at it even more

    few points to add on to this / re-mention:

    #1 it's a break from your normal quest - for the average group it means listening and working together (win) - yes I know it can be solo'd but that's not the average player, and definatly not your first time in the quest.

    #2 it's somewhat fun from a roleplaying standpoint, ie: how often lore-wise will a fighter be running through everything he runs across all the time, there should be plenty of times while they just have to wait while someone else uses their specialty (and yes I know of the valve, this goes hand in hand, having to trust someone on the valve while your hp is on the line swimming). Having to wait 3-5 minutes tensely to know if you will succed or fail while a monk/rogue goes into a treacherous place alone and your whole quest couts on that - I personally love it as that anxiousness helps pull me even farther into the game. (win)

    #3 it's the first dont just run zerg zerg zerg breeze through it no thought needed quest in the game that's semi required, which means it becomes the point where new players (myself included on my first toon) find out how to build toons and get better. For me it was an "oh wait my 8 con halfling rogue who in my head I thought would be a sneaky evasion stay back character like in books who didn't need a lot of HP just isn't going to cut it as everyone rolls 1's". Time to re-think my toon. To me this is the quest that validated this game as being serious and not just another super easy waste of time when bored. (win)

    #4 can I mention teamwork again? doors, wheels, valve/swim (or just trusting someone to swim if you chose that way)

    #5 that feeling when you do build your first toon who can do the swim and be the hero of the group, or the first time you lead it and can help others get through it - playing a game that has quests that can give you that emotion is what sets great game apart, those are amazing moments - and this is one of the first quests to truly achieve that while leveling (biggest win)


    Making it skippable completely due to the above reasons to flag in my view is a travesty
    My reality needs imagination like a bulb needs a socket. My imagination needs reality like a blind man needs a cane. - Tom Waits

  4. #324
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    I will say... I was probably 3 levels over and running it on normal.

    But I solo'd crucible on my first life - first ever toon. I remember healing potions and a couple re-entries and it taking at least 2 hours.

    But it was extremely rewarding and afterwards fun... and a deep sense of accomplishment set in...


    And I vowed that I never need to do this blankety blank blank quest again without a group if at all!! But it was still awesome that I did it solo...

    My next toon joined a group of 2 others and we did fairly easily... it terrorized the evasion toon when my FvS went running after him becuase I wanted to do the challenges also! lol

    I do remember the swimming part being one of the easier parts...cant say why really
    Jeremiiah - Isaiiah - Zephaniiah - Ghallanda - Old Timers Guild

  5. #325
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    Man, this thread is full of confused people Crucible isn't hard. Coal Chamber isn't hard. They are poorly designed and annoying. There is a difference. Annoying isn't the same as challenging.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    Man, this thread is full of confused people Crucible isn't hard. Coal Chamber isn't hard. They are poorly designed and annoying. There is a difference. Annoying isn't the same as challenging.

    OK I have to ask how so? Both of them are really fun quests once you get to know them. They are a nice change from the 'hold forward key,kill everything, ????, profit' kind of quests that a lot of the earlier runs are. Coal on elite can be a bit of a pita if your with a group that doesn't know it well but its not like its -ding- -ding- -ding- ding-.
    The only time coal is a pain on elite is when people who think they know how to zerg just run past everything and DA red the group. If you take your time and range the casters and archers it is a much easier run I have found. If everyone is on the same page coal is a great xp farm.

    I think another reason people hate GH,necro4,vale quests is that is about the time they finally see the glaring deficiency's in their toons. They can't figure out why they stomped just about everything up to that point and why these runs are so much harder.

    Again if Elite crucible is to hard for your toon or group to do try hard, normal or casual to learn the quest. A first lifer does not need BB to cap, it is very achievable to cap without it. ( I am not saying this to you personally danzig just throwing it out there).

    BB is a privilege, if you can do the quest on the difficulty you can get the nice first time bonus for it. If not your best bets are to try and pike a good group who knows what they are doing, you never know if you can listen and ask a few questions you might be able to learn something.

    Someone else mentioned The Pit earlier on. I had a special loathing for that run along with coal chamber until I went on the wiki, read what you had to do and looked at the pretty 3-D maps that are posted there. I did them over and over until I could almost do them by muscle memory over the space of a few months when there was some slow time on the LFM's. Bringing in a lvl20 toon and rolstomping wasn't much fun but I did learn how to navigate them and now they are always on the TR farm list.

    It just take a little time and effort, just like everything else in life. Instant gratification is not the way to go.

  7. #327
    Community Member Elaril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    Man, this thread is full of confused people Crucible isn't hard. Coal Chamber isn't hard. They are poorly designed and annoying. There is a difference. Annoying isn't the same as challenging.
    Coal, yes, poorly designed.

    Crucible, absolutely not. It is, in my opinion, the best quest design in the entire game. It is easily my favorite quest, and it is very annoying that it is not included in the flagging mechanism.
    Akori-Fighter Iroka-Sorcerer Censured-Rogue Isilti-Cleric Tony-Sorcerer Duress-Cleric Elaril-Fighter Avatard-Fighter Mitigation-Paladin Loose-Bard Shiken-Fighter Unreasonably-Barbarian Jueh-Monk

  8. #328
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    Default keep crucible

    I know it is probably "water under the bridge", but please if you can make this a flag as it should be.
    RTFM on Khyber

  9. #329
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    I remember one of the things that culled my complaints about game design; Vexx. It was a 3rd person action platformer. While playing it, there was a part where the camera was a jup that was easilly missable unless you knew to move the camera for a better view.

    The game itself wasn't difficult gameplay wise, but without utilizing the camera, it was easy to fail in many things.

    Complaints about design on quests like Coal Chamber and Crucible to me get me to think, what if part of the challenge is the difficulty you have with the view? What of those ledges are designed that way to make you slow down and take your time?

  10. #330
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    Man, this thread is full of confused people Crucible isn't hard. Coal Chamber isn't hard. They are poorly designed and annoying. There is a difference. Annoying isn't the same as challenging.
    crucible is only annoying for those that have no clue and let everyone else does the work>_>
    otherwise it's a blast
    Last edited by Jay203; 02-07-2013 at 12:26 PM.
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  11. #331
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    Man, this thread is full of confused people Crucible isn't hard. Coal Chamber isn't hard. They are poorly designed and annoying. There is a difference. Annoying isn't the same as challenging.
    Those two quests are fun for those who take the initiative and want to learn, and also do not feel each quest in an MMO game should be a linear run forward and kill fest. Defining quests that are designed to actually make people think and cooperate as "annoying and poorly designed" makes this game look and feel more and more like just another clone MMO each time Turbine responds to requests to easy button it down another notch. Due to this, the things that used to distinguish this game from other games are being eroded away, supported by those who feel that "run forward and kill" should be the only tactic required.

    Annoying is challenging, the difference is that users who accuse it of being annoying do not wish to respond to the challenge, while users who do want that challenge are completing the quest.

  12. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    the things that used to distinguish this game from other games are being eroded away
    The active combat is what distinguishes DDO from other MMOs, not puzzle quests. (I personally love crucible, the pit, etc... but I love DDO for the active combat, not the occasional "neato" quest.)

  13. #333
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    /signed
    Cannith - Juzam, Fighter 8 Ranger 6 Monk 6 AA/ Orocarn, Wraith 12 Stalwart Defender 6 Rogue 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Alleanza degli Uomini Liberi/Guardiani di Eberron

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The active combat is what distinguishes DDO from other MMOs
    I think its the character customization and ability to have multiple hotbars(vs the standard 5 hotkeys). There are some really good active combat games out that do not also have these 2 features.

  15. #335
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystafyi View Post
    I think its the character customization
    for me it's mostly this
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  16. #336

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    I stand corrected; I have to agree that customization is the greatest strength.

  17. #337
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The active combat is what distinguishes DDO from other MMOs, not puzzle quests. (I personally love crucible, the pit, etc... but I love DDO for the active combat, not the occasional "neato" quest.)
    Its DnD. The other's. Well, their not. Simple realy.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Those two quests are fun for those who take the initiative and want to learn, and also do not feel each quest in an MMO game should be a linear run forward and kill fest. Defining quests that are designed to actually make people think and cooperate as "annoying and poorly designed" makes this game look and feel more and more like just another clone MMO each time Turbine responds to requests to easy button it down another notch. Due to this, the things that used to distinguish this game from other games are being eroded away, supported by those who feel that "run forward and kill" should be the only tactic required.

    Annoying is challenging, the difference is that users who accuse it of being annoying do not wish to respond to the challenge, while users who do want that challenge are completing the quest.
    Having to run to the end of a long pathway being constantly ranged by perching archers in order to grab a key to open a door back near the beginning of the pathway in order to get a key to open a door half-way along the pathway in order to get a key to open a door at the end of the pathway is NOT a challenge. It is annoying.

    My #1 suggestion for improvement to coal chamber would be to make those doors pickable. At least THEN there would be a challenge for a rogue/artificer/lockpicker.

    I agree with others on cruicible, everything about the quest is good EXCEPT that each of the 'challenges' pretty much requires one person to do something while the rest of the group stands around. My #1 suggestion for improvement on THAT would be to allow the group to split-up to handle the challenges. Something that is a nightmare for a table-top DM but shouldn't be a big deal in a computer-game, unless having those split-up subgroups would cause too many 'active mobs' and cause extreme lag...


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  19. #339
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    /signed

    I don't <3 many things, but I <3 The Crucible. Easily one of the best quests in the game IMHO.

  20. #340
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksol23 View Post
    /signed

    I don't <3 many things, but I <3 The Crucible. Easily one of the best quests in the game IMHO.
    /agreed
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