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Thread: raid flagging

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by WielderofGigantus View Post
    Jungle of khyber is hard? The only hard part is the beholders, and then the 3 champions, because of the beholder champion.
    He said “Hardest of the chain”. That’s just a comparison to VoNs 1, 2 and 4. Not an overall assessment of the quest.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  2. #42
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I'm a bit confused about the change. I'm not necessarily for or against it, just confused. I solo a lot so my flagging just got easier. I don't usually run Crucible for xp unless I have guildies also running it. This is the sort of change that really should have come with an explanation. I can't stress enough how important dev communication can be regarding changes like this. We all assume it's to make flagging a bit less stressful, but it hasn't been a huge issue up to this point. If you had to run Crucible on EE to flag, then I could see the issue as finding a swimmer and trap room runner might be a bottleneck for some groups. However, players could just run it on casual at level 17 and not even effect bravery bonuses.

    Story wise, I really hope there were some changes put in place so it still makes sense.
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  3. #43
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    I like the change. Crucible is a boring quest, difficulty notwithstanding (after all, there's nothing wrong with running it on casual at 17) and more often than not, you'll have 2-5 people waiting on 1 dude to do stuff. This is absolutely crappy dungeon design if you're not the one guy doing stuff. Not having to do that one quest will make the pack more popular overall, and you crazy people will still be able to farm it for XP.

    Even though it's not hard to do with a hireling, there's nothing fun in /sleep-ing by the ledge while the Appointed Swimmer (TM) swims, or the Appointed Gauntlet Guy (TM) runs the gauntlet, or the Appointed Crest Collector (TM) asks you to pull levers for him. Having been in both sides of these, I can say the quest can be fun if you're the one doing the jobs... and it's just a boring time with a few easy fights and 1 or 2 annoying ones, if you're not.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 01-16-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  4. #44
    Hero Nahual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edyit76 View Post
    thats just it you need someone with evasion and a high reflex to do this one quest, pretty much impossible for your average player with out it. had an lfm up for for over an hour the other day and got 0 hits. since i have a toon without evasion means i cant complete it.

    so you guys go ahead and cry and whine all you want (80% of all thats on these forums) I think its a great change and there is still nothing stopping you from running your precious crucible.
    This is incorrect. There are safe spots along the whole path. You just need to know them. We used to 2 man this on elite when the cap was 12 on a sorc and barb. Also if you get all the chests in the quest base xp would go up, you could get 65k from your first
    run without any xp boosts.
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  5. #45
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    What a sad little change...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubethulu
    Dear Delt,

    No reach around references.

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    Hey Its pretty cool that you made the game easier for some people. However I find that my issue isn't getting completions or flags, but is more in pulling the loot I seek. Since you are making this precedent of making hard things easier, I ask that you remove the 20 completions required to flag for 20th run end rewards. It is no different than removing or changing the requirements of any form of flag, be it for reward, raid, or chain. I find it much harder to run something 80 times with no return, than to run crucible 2 or 3 times per life.


  7. #47
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eighnuss View Post
    Hey Its pretty cool that you made the game easier for some people. However I find that my issue isn't getting completions or flags, but is more in pulling the loot I seek. Since you are making this precedent of making hard things easier, I ask that you remove the 20 completions required to flag for 20th run end rewards. It is no different than removing or changing the requirements of any form of flag, be it for reward, raid, or chain. I find it much harder to run something 80 times with no return, than to run crucible 2 or 3 times per life.

    You know darn well this will never happen.

    Unless you can buy it in the store :P

  8. #48
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    I keep rereading that bit about the flagging quests & doing a little happy dance at the prospect of never again being required to run crucible
    Required to run is the keyword here. On a rogue with arcane splash (or arcane dilettante) Crucible is a blast. On anything else... not so much.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

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  9. #49
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    My guess is the change is to make it easier to solo flag and is a good change.

    Sure Crucible is a hard, challenging quest and nothing has changed there. People who want a hard challenging quest will still run it. People who are time poor can now flag for the epic raid though which is a good thing.
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  10. #50
    Community Member Bargol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edyit76 View Post
    thats just it you need someone with evasion and a high reflex to do this one quest, pretty much impossible for your average player with out it. had an lfm up for for over an hour the other day and got 0 hits. since i have a toon without evasion means i cant complete it.

    so you guys go ahead and cry and whine all you want (80% of all thats on these forums) I think its a great change and there is still nothing stopping you from running your precious crucible.
    No you do not....I have seen an at level sorc do the swim with no trouble (almost no reflex save). It is possible to do the entire swim without hitting a single spike.

    It is very sad to see the game being made easy or dumbed down even more because a vocal group feels they must be able to steam roll every quest on elite and if not nerf it so they can.

    If you don't have the skills to do a quest on elite....do it on hard or normal.

  11. #51
    Community Member wildbynature's Avatar
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    Default This is My disappointed face

    I get that the maze is a pain in the patootie if you don't know it, but doesn't that just give you incentive to want to learn it? There aren't five levers, but I'm usually the only person running around while everyone else calls a lever or waits by the middle.

    Yeah, the swim can be a pain, but I learned it by grabbing a friend and swimming over and over on casual one afternoon until I knew what to expect. You don't want it to break your bravery bonuses? Don't complete. Just practice what you want to practice.

    For me, learning how to do the swim and the maze was part of the fun of learning the quest. I'm kind of disappointed because it seems like it'll be more difficult to fill a pug to run cruci from now on. I really enjoy it
    --Pealea, Peawee, worldpeas, givepeas achance, and whoopea on Khyber

  12. #52
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    /agreed.

    It was one of the best challenge quests in the game.
    It takes teamwork, a cross section of skills and players as well as being great entertainment.
    I wish more quests were designed like this one. instead of the swarm surround the boss.. beatdown.. done.

    I dont understand why it wasnt reworked with some options to bypass sections at the cost of loot and xp vs dropping it as one of the key flagging quests.

    Simple things like die in the water and get ported to the shrine room..
    Put a lever before the room with the horn at the end of the swim that opens a door back to the main passage for the rest of the party.

    Bribe a general to get him to drop a ladder into the maze.. or optional longer path that bypasses the maze.


    Will be sad to see this one go as it is a quest that properly challenged new players and made them think and work together to get it done.
    It built a good foundation of experience for new players to grow from.
    I also agree and all good options and with a bit of brainstorming one would even find more possibilities. Like that it get easier with each attempt you do in exchange of XP or end reward (e.g. have one or more NPC that could stop the water flow for some minutes if you got at least half way through or could rez. you). Yes it is difficult but there are so many options to tune it.

    Regarding the underwater passage needing evasion isn't true anyway. Most people get lost underwater or get killed by the Gnolls at the end or just don't work in a team which is a key element of a Raid. I mean you will probably not attempt to solo the Raid or as others already said just don't know about the valve.

    It also prepared you for the fly passage in the Raid so it had more then just a cosmetic reason to be in the chain.

    Well, but I miss even how STK once was a challenge where you needed teamwork and tactic and the end boss who is meanwhile a laughable punching bag. Now a lot less people will run that quest which is sad. What is next, 'Litany of the Dead' get removed from the flagging chain because the force trap in the abbot pre kill to many players?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Plenty of People run Wiz King as an XP farm - I doubt that this would be done if Wiz King didn't allow for "Solo a Tower" {Gosh I hate that phrase!}

    No-one runs Coal Chamber as an XP farm
    Because like Crucible many people loathe it. {and of course because also like Crucible it's a 30 minute quest minimum! - More often 50min plus!}


    The Crucible {like Coal Chamber} should never have been a required Flag in the first place in my opinion.

    In fact - Now that the Devs have {supposedly} made Crucible not required {Can someone link the dev post please} I'm gonna ask that they do the same for Coal Chamber.

    Really, Coal chamber is Fantastic XP at a point when every bit of xp counts on a TR3 +. There is usually some TR group running Vale elites if you are worried about your streak and it's easy enough to solo on normal (if you ranged everything because red alerts suck) for not bad xp ( not great but if you know it and can do it fast it's a fun run).

    There is defiantly better xp runs out there like Elite Reavers after you finish elite vale and farm Rainbow and Devils down to nothing, but since I learned it (and The Pit) I really enjoy farming them.

    I am saddened at Crucible being taken off the flagging list, again my guildie and I two man it, he knows the swim and the trap room rather well and the rest is just easy. Only time we really slow down is when I am piking the swim and we are trying to find the right door for the trap.

    I just don't think you love The Crucible enough...love it...LOVE IT!.

    BTW is that removing crucible just for epic or heroic for Tor also?

  14. #54
    Community Member wolflordnexus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    why was the quests to flag changed? Having the crucible as one of the flagging quests helped with getting a group for that quest, and it isnt like it was uncompletable. It was one of the more fun quests in that chain.
    If it were a fun quest you would have no problem getting a group.

  15. #55
    Community Member wolflordnexus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edyit76 View Post

    so you guys go ahead and cry and whine all you want (80% of all thats on these forums) I think its a great change and there is still nothing stopping you from running your precious crucible.
    Except the fact that no one ever WANTS to run crucible.

  16. #56
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflordnexus View Post
    If it were a fun quest you would have no problem getting a group.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolflordnexus View Post
    Except the fact that no one ever WANTS to run crucible.
    it IS a fun quest to do, except there are far too many player nowadays that do not want to do more than just meaningless slaughter

    the maze could be done really fast if your group splits up into 3 groups of 2 and get the crests separately

    now we just need Mem to pop in with a "Thinking is hard y'all!" pic
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  17. #57
    Community Member wolflordnexus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    it IS a fun quest to do, except there are far too many player nowadays that do not want to do more than just meaningless slaughter

    the maze could be done really fast if your group splits up into 3 groups of 2 and get the crests separately

    now we just need Mem to pop in with a "Thinking is hard y'all!" pic
    Fun is subjective If less people run it it means it's not fun for the majority. Which means it was a bad Idea as a flagging quest. Personally I think flagging for anything is utter BS. Lets put a whole bunch of suck quests out that have no reason to exist other than making people run them to play the quests they want to play. I think each quest should be able to stand on it's own. In my opinion Crucible is a frustrating **** all quest much like Coal Chamber. I will never have to wait another hour just to get a second person to join the quest, I will never have to slog through another sleet storm, I will never have to sit at a lever twiddling my thumbs, I will never have to wait for someone to play mario, I will never have to wonder if the swimmer can make it or if my hire can res me underwater today, and I will never have to wait for the stupid voice over to finish before I can kill a stupid champions. TY Devs now can you either make ADQ 1 a 12 man area or just freaking perma flag ADQ2.

  18. #58
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflordnexus View Post
    Fun is subjective If less people run it it means it's not fun for the majority. Which means it was a bad Idea as a flagging quest. Personally I think flagging for anything is utter BS. Lets put a whole bunch of suck quests out that have no reason to exist other than making people run them to play the quests they want to play. I think each quest should be able to stand on it's own. In my opinion Crucible is a frustrating **** all quest much like Coal Chamber. I will never have to wait another hour just to get a second person to join the quest, I will never have to slog through another sleet storm, I will never have to sit at a lever twiddling my thumbs, I will never have to wait for someone to play mario, I will never have to wonder if the swimmer can make it or if my hire can res me underwater today, and I will never have to wait for the stupid voice over to finish before I can kill a stupid champions. TY Devs now can you either make ADQ 1 a 12 man area or just freaking perma flag ADQ2.
    lol, true. Fun is subjective
    personally i find timed event mechanics and the simultaneous mechanics to be dull and tediously boring. Does that mean i should petition get rid of dragon blooding, change the reaver mechanic, and also remove the first part of Tor?
    i also find infite mob spawn to be ridiculous, should i try to get that taken out as well?

    why bother playing a MMO if you just want things paved out for you? might as well just go play a single player game and hack the game so nothing stands in your way

    just my two cents
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  19. #59
    Community Member wolflordnexus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    lol, true. Fun is subjective
    personally i find timed event mechanics and the simultaneous mechanics to be dull and tediously boring. Does that mean i should petition get rid of dragon blooding, change the reaver mechanic, and also remove the first part of Tor?
    i also find infite mob spawn to be ridiculous, should i try to get that taken out as well?

    why bother playing a MMO if you just want things paved out for you? might as well just go play a single player game and hack the game so nothing stands in your way

    just my two cents
    Here is the great thing in a world with no flagging mechanics you could just go play a quest you LIKE not to mention they would be forced to actually put more effort into each individual quest to make it fun enough for a certain sub set of people.I Know people that are in love with the pit Coal Proof whatever freakin quest is ****ing me off today. And I'm glad those quests are there for them. Heck I'm sure there is someone out there that is actually in love with The dreaded hell that is the Necro 3 quests (That Rat Maze makes me want to break someones head open.).

    Wy bother playing a MMO if you just want to Jump Swim and pull levers? Might as well play mario and hack the game so those pesky gombas don't get in your way.

    just my two cents

  20. #60
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edyit76 View Post
    thats just it you need someone with evasion and a high reflex to do this one quest, pretty much impossible for your average player with out it.
    Don't know how many times it has been said: you do NOT need evasion in crucible for anything, you can run it on elite without evasion and without a high reflex save. If for any reason you aren't able to run it on elite without evasion, you got 2 options:
    a)find someone who's able to run it for you.
    b)run it on hard, normal or casual.

    Crucible is a great quest, it's just different from the run and kill everything quests.
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