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Thread: raid flagging

  1. #1
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    Default raid flagging

    why was the quests to flag changed? Having the crucible as one of the flagging quests helped with getting a group for that quest, and it isnt like it was uncompletable. It was one of the more fun quests in that chain.

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    Because it's the hardest quest in gianthold?

    Though with this change, people aren't going to run Crucible as much.

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    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    I keep rereading that bit about the flagging quests & doing a little happy dance at the prospect of never again being required to run crucible
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

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    just cause its the hardest quest doesnt mean it should be taken out of flagging. Jungle of kyber is considered the hardest for that chain. both are about on par for at level parties. I've never had a problem with compeleting the quest on any of my toons. Except for the swim the quest is rather easy, finding a middle ground with the DC of the spikes would be more of a better solution then taking it out of the run for being flagged.

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    Jungle of khyber is hard? The only hard part is the beholders, and then the 3 champions, because of the beholder champion.

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    Community Member korafox's Avatar
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    There's a world of difference between a quest being hard and a quest being frustrating. Jungle of Khyber, as pointed out, is a fairly difficult quest (although it seems to be less so these days). But it does not leave me banging my head against a wall the same way the Crucible does. While Jungle is challenging, I also find it one of the most enjoyable quests to run at that level. I am all for this change; anyone who finds Crucible fun can still go run it, and find people of like sentiment. I get the impression that there are a lot of people who also do not find Crucible enjoyable, and we will skip happily towards the Tor without a second glance back.

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    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    I like getting rid of the relics, once and flag is how things should be done.

    But taking cruicible out? As much as I hate that quest...it seems wrong and counter intuitive to the story. At the very least the change should have been "complete 3 or 4" so that people had choice and then the story could change to "get the support of the majority of my generals" instead of the current, "get the support of all my generals except the one guy I don't care what he thinks".

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    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WielderofGigantus View Post
    Jungle of khyber is hard? The only hard part is the beholders, and then the 3 champions, because of the beholder champion.
    Yes Jungle of Khyber is Hard!

    Compare it to every other Lvl 9 quest - Only Haywire and Into the Deep are at anything like the same difficulty!

    BUT VoN 3 and 4 {although I personally feel they should be upgraded to Lvl 10 quests*} are part of a specific chain!
    Crucible, PoP and Madstone are NOT!

    You could just as easily make Foundation, Cabal and Cry for Help required Flags for Tor!



    * Since Bravery Bonus came out - Many Lvl 8 and 9 quests have been rendered harder to run {we no longer have Tier 2 Pres available - if we wish to get a group together in less than an hour that is}.
    I therefore advocate upgrading at least:
    Shadow Crypt
    VoN 3 & 4
    & Into the Deep to Lvl 10

  9. #9
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Wow.

    What a staggeringly awful bit of decision making and shameful pandering to the lowest common denominator all in one package.
    53461

  10. #10
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korafox View Post
    There's a world of difference between a quest being hard and a quest being frustrating. Jungle of Khyber, as pointed out, is a fairly difficult quest (although it seems to be less so these days). But it does not leave me banging my head against a wall the same way the Crucible does. While Jungle is challenging, I also find it one of the most enjoyable quests to run at that level. I am all for this change; anyone who finds Crucible fun can still go run it, and find people of like sentiment. I get the impression that there are a lot of people who also do not find Crucible enjoyable, and we will skip happily towards the Tor without a second glance back.
    But that's the point of a flagging quest. Its suppose to be more challenging. What is challenging about Cabal? I agree that Crucible is a pain to run but its one of the real bench mark quests in the game. You finish Crucible and you feel like you accomplished something. You finish Cabal and you brag to no one about it. This is a HUGE mistake in my opinion.

  11. #11
    Community Member DrunkenBuddha's Avatar
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    I concur. Nuisance though it can sometimes be, it fits thematically. You are given quests to find out if you belong in their club. Along the way, you kill everyone in the challenge! In return, underwater spikes kill you!

    Cabal of one doesn't have that same je ne sais quoi, especially since it has been relegated to a quick xp farm. No one runs Crucible as an xp farm, although it is fabulous on elite with BB.
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    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    My guess is that they had issues with converting Crucible to epic, so they opted for the easier approach of using a different quest for flagging for consistency purposes between heroic and epic.

  13. #13
    Community Member korafox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    But that's the point of a flagging quest. Its suppose to be more challenging. What is challenging about Cabal? I agree that Crucible is a pain to run but its one of the real bench mark quests in the game. You finish Crucible and you feel like you accomplished something. You finish Cabal and you brag to no one about it. This is a HUGE mistake in my opinion.
    My point wasn't to address whether or not Crucible is challenging; I think everyone can agree that for 99% of the population, it is. My point is that Crucible is frustrating and not enjoyable for most people.

    This is a game, and while there may be some people who play it simply for bragging rights, there are a heck of a lot of people who play it to have a good time. And I know my experience is that being forced to run Crucible to flag for the Tor is Not A Good Time. There are lots of people who feel the same way, and on behalf of them, I say thank you to Turbine for letting us bypass it. A great way to strike a balance between the differing views on this quest would be to have a bound item come out of Crucible that would be a much-desired trophy for those people who want to attempt the challenge of the quest.

    Honestly, I think the premise of the Crucible is great, but the execution of the quest is ridiculously frustrating for a lot of people, myself included. If the quest design could be revisited and tweaked to reduce some of the frustration factor without losing the challenge, I would be all for reinstating it as a flagging quest. But as it is now, I'm not going to shed a tear over this change.

  14. #14
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBuddha View Post
    I concur. Nuisance though it can sometimes be, it fits thematically. You are given quests to find out if you belong in their club. Along the way, you kill everyone in the challenge! In return, underwater spikes kill you!

    Cabal of one doesn't have that same je ne sais quoi, especially since it has been relegated to a quick xp farm. No one runs Crucible as an xp farm, although it is fabulous on elite with BB.
    Plenty of People run Wiz King as an XP farm - I doubt that this would be done if Wiz King didn't allow for "Solo a Tower" {Gosh I hate that phrase!}

    No-one runs Coal Chamber as an XP farm
    Because like Crucible many people loathe it. {and of course because also like Crucible it's a 30 minute quest minimum! - More often 50min plus!}


    The Crucible {like Coal Chamber} should never have been a required Flag in the first place in my opinion.

    In fact - Now that the Devs have {supposedly} made Crucible not required {Can someone link the dev post please} I'm gonna ask that they do the same for Coal Chamber.

  15. #15
    Community Member elraido's Avatar
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    If you don't know how the levers work in the maze, the quest is absolute nightmare.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBuddha View Post
    No one runs Crucible as an xp farm, although it is fabulous on elite with BB.
    clearly i've grouped with some people that you haven't, because i've farmed crucible for xp

    find someone that can knows the swim and the maze (and can do them quickly) and you're good to go.

  17. #17
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBuddha View Post
    No one runs Crucible as an xp farm, although it is fabulous on elite with BB.
    I disagree - I always farm Crucible when capping a TR (Elite/Hardx5/Normal, in fact). >_>

    I'd say Crucible is farmed quite a bit on Thelanis in general, as well.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elraido View Post
    If you don't know how the levers work in the maze, the quest is absolute nightmare.
    The maze can be an absolute nightmare even if you DO know how it works.
    "I'm trying to hit this lever, but that stupid archer is shooting at me!"

  19. #19
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    clearly i've grouped with some people that you haven't, because i've farmed crucible for xp

    find someone that can knows the swim and the maze (and can do them quickly) and you're good to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    I disagree - I always farm Crucible when capping a TR (Elite/Hardx5/Normal, in fact). >_>

    I'd say Crucible is farmed quite a bit on Thelanis in general, as well.
    Well I personally believe you're both quite quite mad!

    BUT nothing's stopping you from still being able to do this!

    I am assuming of course that you're either:
    a} able to solo it.
    b} running in a regular party of TRs.

    I personally never wish to see the inside of Crucible again - However I enjoy both Tor and Reaver's Fate!
    I also have no issues with either Madstone or PoP! {PoP's actually one of my favourite quests}
    However I don't farm any of them!
    I run Reaver's when it comes up - I run Tor twice per life per toon {Once for completion and Once for Dragons}.
    I run Madstone and PoP Exactly once per life per toon {Just like Crucible}!

    The difference is that the hour or so I spend in Crucible per life per toon is a pain in the posterior!
    If I didn't have to run it for the flag I don't think I'd ever set foot in it again!

    Same goes for Wiz King and Coal Chamber!

  20. #20
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    The maze can be an absolute nightmare even if you DO know how it works.
    "I'm trying to hit this lever, but that stupid archer is shooting at me!"
    so shoot him back (note: for those not familiar with the quest, this advice is probably not the best advice you'll ever receive... but i'm not going to tell you why )

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