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  1. #21

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    Why Paladin?
    (martial prof, small boost to saves and active PLF?)

  2. #22
    The Hatchery amnota's Avatar
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    For me it is the martial, as i have a thf tr build i could easily move into this build.
    Some people are like Slinkies
    They don't really have a purpose
    But they still bring a smile to your face
    When you push them down the stairs

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Why Paladin?
    (martial prof, small boost to saves and active PLF?)
    +8-10 to saves isn't exactly "a small boost".

  4. #24
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    I found a con of this build.

    You're forced to be an ugly warforged. >_>
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    +8-10 to saves isn't exactly "a small boost".
    It is relative to other Paladin splits utilizing Divine Grace such as Tukaw
    or 18/2 (Sor/Pal). The OP doesn't actually list any stats hence this is not
    obvious.

  6. #26
    Community Member Truga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    I found a con of this build.

    You're forced to be an ugly warforged. >_>
    Silly fleshies.

  7. #27
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    The OP doesn't actually list any stats hence this is not obvious.
    Probably because it all depends on how many build pts you start with, what tomes you take, which optional feats you're going for (e.g., epic Toughness req's CON 21), what gear & buffs you're counting on, etc.

  8. #28

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    I like this direction a lot. One thing that has me scratching my head, though -- no THF line? Did I miss something recently that made the THF line a lot worse? It seems like a lot of melee damage is being left on the table in favor of different modes of attack: pretty good melee damage with Sireth, pretty good melee damage with eSoS, pretty good repeater use, pretty good bow damage. In every case, there would be a few more feat selections that could pump damage up even further, but the decision seems to be to be able to attack with a bunch of different modes "pretty good" instead of picking fewer "awesome damage" modes.

    Am I missing something about certain feats no longer being that useful, or is that just a choice of the build -- be able to use a greater variety of weapons at the expense of the top end DPS for any particular weapon?
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    It is relative to other Paladin splits utilizing Divine Grace such as Tukaw
    or 18/2 (Sor/Pal). The OP doesn't actually list any stats hence this is not
    obvious.
    In one of the videos you can see:

    I had a PM chat with Haek, and figured this out mostly:

    Code:
    STR: 54 -2(ship) -4 (tenser) -3 (chrono) - 6(lvls) -8 (planar?) -5 (primal) -4 (tome) = 22
    DEX: 29 -2(ship) -4 (tenser) +2 (earth) -4 (tome) = 21
    CON: 48 -2(ship) -4 (tenser) -2 (earth) -7 (bracer) -2 (belt) -4 (tome) = 33
    INT: 28 -2(ship) 
    WIS: 24 -2(ship) -7 (belt) -2(bracer)-4(tome) = 9
    CHA: 28 -2(ship)
    Missing for the above is also Completionist +2, plus a pile of other stuff I havent had to time to nail down yet.

    CHA@28 means +9 saves - pretty useful in EE.


    Melee Arty is an interesting idea. Some thing I may try out at some point.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  10. #30
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    sounds like a fun build and I might try it on one of my lives for khandi

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  11. #31

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    it would be great if you give us more information how to lvl such char. why not taking full arti at least to get bb and then split it, give us some insight which gear is good for lvling, spells you are using etc. I know you said you wont post end game gear, but at least you could post something what is in your opinion essential for juggernaut. (i know - esos)

  12. #32
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Can you elaborate the manyshot version a bit? Is it a q-staff primarly or just general THF (+ manyshot)? Thanks
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  13. #33
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Well tbh Esos isnt really needed, it works well ofc. But so does any endgame two handed weapon like Sireth, Cleaver, EAGA heck even that falchion from the citw works.

    I didnt use BB at any time since my int isnt really high for DC and both lvl 6 spells are taken by Deadly Weapons and Reconstruct.

    The Leveling is quite a journey, i tend to solo alot on Elite or shortman, so my playstyle might vary from yours.
    Can give some advice though, make sure you use Invulnerability from start on, use clickies and wands like Prot evil, blur etc.
    The Arti as Melee is so strong that u usually dont need special preparations since your saves are very high, you have evasion can handle traps and self heal and buff.

    The only kind of difficult thing is to choose when u take which feat since some like manyshot need 17 base dex or some need couple feats as prereq like manyshot or great cleave.

    Make sure u choose from the start when to take which feat or u might end up not being able to take certain feats because its not an arti class feat or you are missing a prereq.

    Little Advice for leveling the arti, make sure u pick up the rare spells on the spell selection. Dont pick repair spells even though the next better version of repair is the best choice. It doesnt hurt to go to the artificer scroll vendor in house C and look up which ones u can buy and inscribe. Some are same as Cleric or Wizard so those vendors might have some additional scrolls too. On DDOwiki under artificer spells is a link to a list of artificer rare scrolls which only can be found in treasures (BB, deadly, forcefield come to mind)

    I suggest if youre ability and experience to build a character is not so evolved you start with the paladin version and use as feat progression with the mentioned leveling sequence this:

    1. stun 2. PA 3 Cleave / Toughness 6 great cleave 8 PBS 9 rapid shot 12 quicken manyshot 15 imp crit slash 16 weapon focus ranged 18 bow str 20 imp crit ranged (or precise shot) 21 overwhelm 24 epic toughness (or if u dont have enough con take mithral body)
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  14. #34
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    Artificer 16 Paladin 2 Monk 2

    Leveling sequence:
    AMMPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical Slashing (Esos) / Improved Critical Bludgeoning (Sireth), Toughness, Quicken, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Weapon Focus Ranged, Bow Strength, Overwhelming Critical, Stunning Blow

    Option 1: Extend, Paladin Past Life
    So I took a stab at this version to make sure I have the right idea:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Female
    (2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Artificer) 
    Hit Points: 349
    Spell Points: 680 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 19
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            14                    17
    Constitution         18                    22
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom                6                     8
    Charisma             10                    12
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    
    Level 1 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 9 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Soldier of the Faith
    
    
    Level 10 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 15 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Bow Strength
    
    
    Level 16 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Rapid Shot
    
    
    Level 17 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 19 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Artificer Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack I
    Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage I
    Enhancement: Artificer Battle Engineer I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device II
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device III
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device IV
    Enhancement: Reconstructive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Reconstructive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Reconstructive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Reconstructive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Reconstructive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Mighty Reconstruction I
    Enhancement: Mighty Reconstruction II
    Enhancement: Mighty Reconstruction III
    Enhancement: Mighty Reconstruction IV
    Enhancement: Mighty Reconstruction V
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Repair Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Warforged Tactics I
    Enhancement: Warforged Tactics II
    Enhancement: Warforged Tactics III
    Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical and either Extend or epic Toughness

    It's funny because there's a lot that's counter-intuitive about this build - e.g., ignoring repeater & caster DPS from artificer, adding bow feats to a non-AA, etc. - but the pieces do seem to fit once you get them all together. I actually wasn't sure what to do with most of my APs, because apart from the Battle Engineer pre-reqs and Repair enhs, I don't think you need anything else from artificer; which means plenty of pts left over for Tactics, Toughness, UMD, etc.

    Haven't worked out skills, but I presume UMD & Concentration are the must-haves, with the remaining pts going into trap skills.

  15. #35
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    You can ignore concentration, u have quicken.

    Trap skills, 1 tumble, balance, umd and if u have some spare into haggle or jump :P

    Build looks fine, although id use 2 str less and put those points in some wis and int to get more skill points.

    Remember u need at all times 16 int to be able to cast reconstruct so i try to keep that without any gear or buff since disjunction could really kill you then :P

    Rise Juggernauts! Riiiise

    Cheers
    Haek
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  16. #36
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    It's funny because there's a lot that's counter-intuitive about this build - e.g., ignoring repeater & caster DPS from artificer, adding bow feats to a non-AA, etc. - but the pieces do seem to fit once you get them all together.
    Last life on my character Macksheen I swung a staff mostly. Seriously. Occasional Terror or Cloudburst, but mostly staff. I had a returner for ranged, but ultimately did stick a cross bow and two rune-arms on him ... the hand cannon for breaking boxes and I forget what the other one was - maybe Tira's?
    I actually wasn't sure what to do with most of my APs, because apart from the Battle Engineer pre-reqs and Repair enhs, I don't think you need anything else from artificer; which means plenty of pts left over for Tactics, Toughness, UMD, etc.
    Battle Engineer rocks.

    I'm still working through some past lives on Mack, but I'm having fun w/ the non-rune-arm arti.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  17. #37
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    Little Advice for leveling the arti, make sure u pick up the rare spells on the spell selection. Dont pick repair spells even though the next better version of repair is the best choice. It doesnt hurt to go to the artificer scroll vendor in house C and look up which ones u can buy and inscribe. Some are same as Cleric or Wizard so those vendors might have some additional scrolls too. On DDOwiki under artificer spells is a link to a list of artificer rare scrolls which only can be found in treasures (BB, deadly, forcefield come to mind)
    You can inscribe all spells at level 1. At level 1 I always immediately go buy all available scrolls from vendors and then any reasonably priced scroll on the AH, then inscribe them all. This guarantees the only choices you see when leveling up are "rare".

  18. #38
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    Here's how I made the build for my old bard:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
    (2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Artificer) 
    Hit Points: 254
    Spell Points: 730 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            14                    17
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               2                     2
    Bluff                 1                     3
    Concentration         3                     5
    Diplomacy             1                     3
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                     3
    Heal                 -1                     1
    Hide                  2                     2
    Intimidate            1                     3
    Jump                  3                     5
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         2                     2
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     3
    Search                1                     3
    Spot                 -1                     1
    Swim                  3                     3
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body
    
    
    Level 7 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 9 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 10 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 15 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Bow Strength
    
    
    Level 16 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Rapid Shot
    
    
    Level 17 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 19 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell
    For leveling the lack of concentration (I didn't personally skill it) hurts a bit and to hit is an issue from time to time, but both of those should be fixed by the time I'm capped and running around with quicken & tensers.

    I've been doing the leveling pretty slowly, running just about everything on elite mostly solo though grouping every now and then too. Even with the few issues I've mentioned it performs really well for leveling too, currently lvl 13 with xp for lvl 14 banked.

    Skills I'm maxing currently are UMD, DD, search, spot and open locks, not sure what's the 2nd epic feat I'm going to get, IC: Ranged and some other stuff was on the table.
    Last edited by Viisari; 01-18-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  19. #39
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    You can inscribe all spells at level 1. At level 1 I always immediately go buy all available scrolls from vendors and then any reasonably priced scroll on the AH, then inscribe them all. This guarantees the only choices you see when leveling up are "rare".
    I do this as well when leveling a wizard (or an arty, I guess, though my arty is level 8 right now - it'll cap sometime after I cap my sorc. >_>)
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  20. #40
    Community Member CodyGenX's Avatar
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    Nice build.

    A few weeks ago I was looking at the same split for a Sword and Board char w/ stunning blow (tukaw/BBB Inspired).
    The Bladesworn
    Ranger UP
    •Wyckit¤Salokin¤Cruelest•
    «Ghallanda»

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