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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarant View Post
    Black out every 1s loot in the chest so we cant see it if its not for us so we stop getting threads like this, add a extra option on the pull down menu for the item so u can make a item visible.

    And they all lived happily ever after on a farm well stocked with rabbits and gold stars The end.
    I honestly thing this is the answer to loot drama. Then everyone can make the decision what to do with their own loot in privacy, and we can stop reading about crazy loot drama on the forum.
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  2. #42
    Community Member MarQuileth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarant View Post
    Black out every 1s loot in the chest so we cant see it if its not for us so we stop getting threads like this, add a extra option on the pull down menu for the item so u can make a item visible.

    And they all lived happily ever after on a farm well stocked with rabbits and gold stars The end.

    I like this idea...you could have it in the IU Options to select on or off...

  3. #43
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    In DDO, chest loot has an owner, his/her name is on the loot.

    My loot is my loot. Your loot is your loot. I don't have a right to tell you what to do with your loot. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with my loot. Anything the loot owner decides to do is perfectly acceptable. If your guild has loot rules, they apply to the members of your guild only, because continued membership in the guild implies that members accept the rules of the guild.

    If you blacklist people because they won't do what you want with their loot, its simply tacky, and shows you lack respect for other people's rights.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by germanicusmaximus View Post
    in ddo, chest loot has an owner, his/her name is on the loot.

    My loot is my loot. Your loot is your loot. I don't have a right to tell you what to do with your loot. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with my loot. Anything the loot owner decides to do is perfectly acceptable. If your guild has loot rules, they apply to the members of your guild only, because continued membership in the guild implies that members accept the rules of the guild.

    If you blacklist people because they won't do what you want with their loot, its simply tacky, and shows you lack respect for other people's rights.
    word up ^^

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    In DDO, chest loot has an owner, his/her name is on the loot.

    My loot is my loot. Your loot is your loot. I don't have a right to tell you what to do with your loot. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with my loot. Anything the loot owner decides to do is perfectly acceptable. If your guild has loot rules, they apply to the members of your guild only, because continued membership in the guild implies that members accept the rules of the guild.

    If you blacklist people because they won't do what you want with their loot, its simply tacky, and shows you lack respect for other people's rights.
    How about extending this type of thinking to "your toon is your toon"?

    and...

    If you blacklist people because they won't do what you want with their toons, its simply tacky, and shows you lack respect for other people's rights

    Pyreal af Templar

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    How about extending this type of thinking to "your toon is your toon"?
    I can only dream. LOL WHat is really funny is when you get two of the overloud micromanager types in the same party with different ideas of how you should play your toon and they are SO busy arguing over it that they have sorta forgotten you are there in the first place, and you finish the quest while they'r standing around fighting and finish out on them. And they send you tells complaining about it.
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  7. #47
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    I really wish the thread was here week ago, and I had the chance to read it then.

    Personally I follow the rules as seen in majority of threads - your loot is your loot, pass it to whoever you want, put it for roll if you are not interested in the said item or do whatever you wish with it. But what are you generally thinking about "compensating" another players for their BtC/BtA loot?

    Lately I have evidently done a mistake I wasn't even aware of - I offered a compensation for a Commendation of Heroism (tired of getting stunning 1 after 13 runs, half of that on EH, which should average over half a commendation per player and run). I haven't forced anyone to trade it to me, but when an offer (more like an auction) came, I was able to pull out the best offer for the person and got it.

    Now I am obviously blacklisted by someone not selling the loot and to my best knowledge even not participating in the auction, just seeing it being run, and that all even though I stated at the entering of the quest and then again before popping any chests that I am there for the commendations only and will be recompensing anyone who will be willing to pass me theirs (with no objections on both of these proclamations).

    Needles to say I'm sorry the situation ended in this manner - haven't ever thought about this being frowned upon, as I have seen the same behavior more than a dozen of times before. Even that I am now missing just the last comm on a rather long to-do list to TR, I would rather stayed there for another half a year trying in vain to get the commendations by myself than to be regarded as mean player...
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post
    I really wish the thread was here week ago, and I had the chance to read it then.
    Needles to say I'm sorry the situation ended in this manner - haven't ever thought about this being frowned upon, as I have seen the same behavior more than a dozen of times before. Even that I am now missing just the last comm on a rather long to-do list to TR, I would rather stayed there for another half a year trying in vain to get the commendations by myself than to be regarded as mean player...
    Unfortunately your situation is a hot button with many other players, yet common with the other half of players. Buying/selling bound chest loot is a divisive issue

    My guild will not run with anyone on either side of that sort of deal, and while I don't personally care if someone wants something of value for something of value, I do accept that part of my guilds expectation of behavior and also blacklist such players as part of being in my guild. The rest of my guildmates think loot sellers/buyers are awful. And I have never sold loot, if I chose not to keep it I either offered it to someone I thought could really use it or offered it up for a roll, nor have I bought it. But I have seen it, and before joining my guild and accepting that it's an important issue to them, I had never cared.

    I don't think you are a mean player, just caught in an unfortunate clash of perspectives. Some players see trading something of roughly equal value as fair, some see it as a form of in game pay to win. You can't please everyone, and all of us are blacklisted by someone for something.
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  9. #49
    Community Member aarant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I hate this idea more than any amount of loot drama and it makes no sense everyone is standing there with you they should see the loot so why have to use a menu to make it visible.
    It makes perfect sense. U pull item X decide u dont need it now u get to check with guildys/friends if they want it without the pleas/outright hostile questions of is that for roll ect., 1 of ur friends/guildys needs it u pass it the end. No more ninja, blacklist, thanks for wasting my time (I guess the loot the chest gave them wasnt enough they wanted a chance to steal urs before u were allowed to pass it to a guildy thats what the enforced roll rule is really) and no more threads like this.

    The drop down option is for putting the item for roll/sale whatever, u can now make it visible to the rest of the raid. Simple no more loot drama, no more blacklisting, no more crys of ninja, the end and they all lived ect. ect.

  10. #50
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I don't think you are a mean player, just caught in an unfortunate clash of perspectives. Some players see trading something of roughly equal value as fair, some see it as a form of in game pay to win. You can't please everyone, and all of us are blacklisted by someone for something.
    Well, think I will have to live with that. Still believe that writing something in line "Don't do that, it's frowned upon." into the party chat after I offered the compensation would be little bit more fair, but hey, people tend to overreact. Just have to find some other PUGs next time...
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post
    I really wish the thread was here week ago, and I had the chance to read it then.

    Personally I follow the rules as seen in majority of threads - your loot is your loot, pass it to whoever you want, put it for roll if you are not interested in the said item or do whatever you wish with it. But what are you generally thinking about "compensating" another players for their BtC/BtA loot?

    Lately I have evidently done a mistake I wasn't even aware of - I offered a compensation for a Commendation of Heroism (tired of getting stunning 1 after 13 runs, half of that on EH, which should average over half a commendation per player and run). I haven't forced anyone to trade it to me, but when an offer (more like an auction) came, I was able to pull out the best offer for the person and got it.

    Now I am obviously blacklisted by someone not selling the loot and to my best knowledge even not participating in the auction, just seeing it being run, and that all even though I stated at the entering of the quest and then again before popping any chests that I am there for the commendations only and will be recompensing anyone who will be willing to pass me theirs (with no objections on both of these proclamations).

    Needles to say I'm sorry the situation ended in this manner - haven't ever thought about this being frowned upon, as I have seen the same behavior more than a dozen of times before. Even that I am now missing just the last comm on a rather long to-do list to TR, I would rather stayed there for another half a year trying in vain to get the commendations by myself than to be regarded as mean player...
    Here I am. I was the one who auctioned the commendation that you won.
    First I want to tell you I feel sorry you are blacklisted, try to live with it. I know everyone has his own feelings and toughts about rules and everything, but I must admit that someone goes beyond that and assumes that everybody should behave like he does.
    Yes, Cannith is full of kids, this is the truth. You did no mistake, relax and dont feel "sorry"
    I usually follow the basic rules of loot: "my loot is my loot" and "friends and guildies come first".
    Additionally I think I am not wrong if I decide to set a trade for a loot, that doesn't go on roll, following these rules:
    - If I dont need the item, it goes on roll, no matter what. (I just put on a free roll a quiver, because I had already one and in no case I could have used two)
    - If I need that loot, THEN I DECIDE if i could need something else more than that particular item. For example (that's your case) I needed that commendation, therefore would have been mad and stupid put it for roll while I should have taken for myself. But I decided that in that moment I needed more red scales, because I am very close to craft my red armour and I am still very far to hit PDK favour. I have all the time to farm commendations. That is up to me because commendation is under my name, and nobody can argue which are my necessities and my priority, nor force me to take something over something else that i need more. So Commendation goes on auction/trade and dont go on roll.
    - I see everykind of hidden trade/sale in the chest with items quickly changing name in a second. This is just hypocritical: If you feel to do, then do it, like I do, don't sneak.


    And in any case I was the one to ban, and not you. I can live with bans and squelches, raiding all the time and every content with my guild (I am also one of the most active PUG leader on Cannith while I have never seen these lazy squelchers put up a LFM), especially when they are performed by kids. I just /squelch back happily.
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    See you in game .
    Last edited by Belsogno; 01-18-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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  12. #52
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    In DDO, chest loot has an owner, his/her name is on the loot.

    My loot is my loot. Your loot is your loot. I don't have a right to tell you what to do with your loot. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with my loot. Anything the loot owner decides to do is perfectly acceptable. If your guild has loot rules, they apply to the members of your guild only, because continued membership in the guild implies that members accept the rules of the guild.

    If you blacklist people because they won't do what you want with their loot, its simply tacky, and shows you lack respect for other people's rights.
    If a barb loots a twilight a caster needs it's a right of that caster to blacklist the barb so he won't roll on his unneeded SoS Shard the next time they run together, if they ever do. Nothing to do with people's rights really, it's just a simple "do ut des" system.

    Blacklists are nothing evil, they are just consequences.

    @Pyreal: that was sarcasm wasn't it?
    Last edited by FengXian; 01-19-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    If a barb loots a twilight a caster needs it's a right of that caster to blacklist the barb so he won't roll on his unneeded SoS Shard the next time they run together, if they ever do. Nothing to do with people's rights really, it's just a simple "do ut des" system.
    You're free to blacklist people for wearing a funny hat if you like, but blacklisting and revenge isn't going to bring your (really?) twilight back. It's just going to sour the pug scene. Gandhi, eye for an eye etc.

    The length of time it takes to get a rare drop is much more than it takes to TR, especially since I cannot stomach mindless grinding of a single quest. My divine is doing a sorc life and I *will* loot the SoS if it drops for him before he TR's back to divine. I'll roll on a SoS if it drops for someone else, it's up to that person to decide whether to ignore my roll.

    I've felt butthurt when the "wrong" class has looted or rolled for an item I would have liked. I've felt butthurt when a guildie sold an item in chest to a pugger. I've come to realise it just boils down to "your loot is your loot", and I get over my feelings soon enough.

    Don't expect anything, but be kind to others when you can.

    P.S. Pyreal cares too much about what others say. Someone was mean to him some time. It's practically all he writes about on the forums. I'm almost curious as to what exactly his problem is/was.
    Last edited by stoerm; 01-21-2013 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Corrected for proper meaning
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  14. #54
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Since tr-ing is even faster now, the "roll just on current life needs" unspoken rule has indeed grown almost meaningless. There is a reason I said SoS SHARD and non just SoS. If I were to loot such a shard on my caster I would at least take the time to explain that my 'final' life (nothing's final here but you know what I mean) would use eSoS.

    Again, blacklisting is NOT about revenge. It's about running with people who share your ideas or at least don't do the exact opposite.

    It's also a way to make so-called jerks understand that if they keep looting stuff other people need a lot just in order to vendor it or for mere collection, they can't expect to roll on stuff they need in the future. You call it vengeance, I call it karma.

    This is just about loot. Blacklisting for other reasons is also legit.

    However FYI, my blacklist is clear as I don't add people easily, I do need a "serious" reason.
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  15. #55
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Smile A possilbe outcome in a quest. I call it: Six players loot rules.

    The Leader of the party calls out that there might be Traps.

    The Rogue searches for traps and does accordingly.

    Everyone then gets in line with the next in line standing 10 feet away the Leader opens the chest.

    While no is peaking the leader secretley changes the names of all or his/her loot to another person in the party.

    Steps aside and the next in line loots the chest.

    While the other 4 members of the party patiently wait and while no one peaks, the 2nd person in the party loots the chest but decides to put half his/her loot in someone elses name and one of those is a Rare. So now, no one knows the better and what you don't know can't hurt yah.

    That someone else happens to be the 3rd person in line and while two minutes have passed by and ship buffs tick away this 3rd person is happy to follow such rules as these. And when the 3rd person does loot he/she gets the Rare and has no idea it was put in their name but loots the Rare because no one is peaking.

    And so on 4th, 5th, 6th person loots and gets all the loot from 1, and half from 2 and decides to give it all to number one.

    Number one opens the chest again and it is full of vendor trash and fills up his/her packs so they are full now.

    Meanwhile 10 minutes of buffed have passed.
    Last edited by Zorth; 01-21-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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  16. #56
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    Again, blacklisting is NOT about revenge. It's about running with people who share your ideas or at least don't do the exact opposite.

    It's also a way to make so-called jerks understand that if they keep looting stuff other people need a lot just in order to vendor it or for mere collection
    I misunderstood your post then. I thought you meant as a caster you'd take revenge by keeping the SoS shard.

    I agree, looting for selling or collecting is antisocial, but we are now approaching the territory of "your loot is my loot". I will stick to "your loot is your loot" because I've adjusted my expectations to reality. There are always inconsiderate jerks and newbies. Each exception is a happy surprise.

    Perhaps I'm hesitant to give lessons because I've made my share of mistakes (those madstone boots in my caster's TR bank make me sad ).
    Last edited by stoerm; 01-21-2013 at 08:08 AM.

  17. #57
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    1. If you want it, take it (it's got your name on it, after all).
    2. If a friend wants it, pass it to him.
    3. Otherwise, put it up for roll.

    That's it. No class discrimination, no claiming you know better than the player why he/she might need an item (because you don't). The chest already randomly distributes the loot; by putting the item up for roll, you're doing the exact same thing a second time, only you're excluding people (like yourself) who don't want the item. The world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world is chance ... unbiased, unprejudiced, fair.

    To see what I mean about not knowing better than the player - my barbarian is aiming to become an arcane completionist. It probably will never happen, but I was a sorcerer last life and will be a wizard the next. The point is that I am far more interested in arcane-oriented gear than in melee-oriented gear, even though I'm a barbarian with a joke of a blue bar. I've been running aDQ to get the Torc, and at this point could care less about the Marilith chain or whatever else it is that melees run that raid for. Once I even won a roll for a Torc, but the guy who put it up for roll reneged and decided that a Barb-life TR didn't deserve it. Since then, I try to let everyone know I'm looking for the Torc before the raid, but even saying that somehow feels rude.

    In my experience, this type of classism has become less common in DDO, and the incident mentioned above is the only time it's ever actually made a difference in what loot gets passed to me. But whenever I'm excluded from or penalized on a roll because of the life I currently happen to be on, it really ruins my enjoyment of the game - whether it made a difference or not in getting the item.

    Edit: Saw this was in the Cannith section. Hope you don't mind if a Thelanite raids your thread .
    Last edited by bazooka99; 01-25-2013 at 05:52 PM.

  18. #58
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    I don't buy or sell loot because there's already too few people to run with to go alienating the group that gets their painties in a wad about it, but I find the anti loot selling thing obnoxious and generally hypocritical. It's just another way of pressuring people without a lot of friends in the raiding circles to give away their loot while the in-crowd trade among themselves. If it's OK to give loot to your friends (because they'll pass stuff to you in the future), then it should be OK to sell it.

    How about instead of "selling" we just say player1 is giving item A to their "friend" player2, and player2 decides to give item B to their "friend" player1? No dirty, dirty buying and selling, just some friend helping each other out.
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  19. #59
    Community Member aarant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    How about extending this type of thinking to "your toon is your toon"?

    and...

    If you blacklist people because they won't do what you want with their toons, its simply tacky, and shows you lack respect for other people's rights

    Pyreal af Templar
    On the off chance I ever see 1 of ur lfms is it ok for me to enter and go have a smoke, maybe watch a movie as well?

  20. #60
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarant View Post
    On the off chance I ever see 1 of ur lfms is it ok for me to enter and go have a smoke, maybe watch a movie as well?
    He's talking about his right to play what is regarded a "gimp" build, not about griefing.

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