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  1. #1
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Default The Radiant Titan - a fully healing capable melee cleric (Clr17/Ftr1/Mnk2)

    Preamble:

    I've run a WF FVS for a long time and haven't been happy with their performance since update 11. Before U11 they could do basically anything (including solohealing an elite VOD while also maintanking the boss, albeit with a bard reconstructing me). But the game has changed and DR 13/- isn't nearly as relevant when bosses hit for over 200.

    Finally while melee DPS output has skyrocketed for 'real' melee classes, Divine Punishment hasn't kept pace. My FVS was doing anemic damage, killing one mob in the time it took a barbarian to kill five (where back in the build's day I'd have killed three with melee attacks and hurt a fourth badly with Divine Punishment in that time).

    Here's an attempt at a divine that can achieve the following goals, in the spirit of the old Soul Survivor build:

    - Raidhealing: the character must be good enough at healing to soloheal epic elite 6-player dungeons and to two-heal epic elite raids.
    - Significant melee DPS: the character must be able to contribute something significant to the group's success and completion speed when intense healing isn't required.
    - Durability: the character needs to be downright tough to kill.
    - Powerful solo: I want the toon to be able to perform well solo (although not necessarily be amazing at it).


    Introducing: The Radiant Titan

    This is a 36 point build. If you want to try to make it work with less, drop up to six points of Dexterity. Your Reflex saves will suffer but when you have +Saves twists of fate you will still get real value from your evasion in epic elite content.

    IMPORTANT: You MUST be Lawful for this build. Remember that in character creation, alignment swaps are not cheap. Both LG and LN have merit now at endgame.

    Recommended Past Lives:
    Like most melee builds, the build gains more from Paladin past lives (for the passive healing amp) than anything, although it can get some use out of other PLs too. It gains little from the main caster lives and if you have a toon with multiple FvS and Wiz lives I'd recommend looking into the Grandmaster of Death build instead.

    Race:
    Human OR Half-elf. Part of your durability is your passive healing from your aura, which drastically increases the amount of damage you can suffer without having to spend a healing cooldown on yourself. Humans and Half-elves have by far the best healing amplification of any race, giving them the best synergy with this build.
    I recommend human - the extra feat gives a lot of options.

    Class split:
    The build is feat starved. To ensure you have access to mandatory healing feats (Quicken, Empower Healing, Maximize) and full melee capacity, you need at least two feats 'free' from class levels. Viable splashes to this end are Ftr2, Mnk2, Wiz1 or some mixture of the above.
    Obviously with the power level of Mass Heal and Energy Drain being so high, going under Clr17 is not in consideration. Drain does ~40000 damage no save to some Netherese EE orangenameds when they are at full health – meaning that if you cast Drain once and then go AFK all fight you will still likely be the group's top DPS.
    Ftr1 gives martial weapon proficiency. In a world where the best weapon for the task changes from situation to situation, this is very valuable - you get access to the holy trinity of weapons (eSOS, Epic Antique Greataxe and a Falchion of Obscenity) without using a feat slot on any of them. So Ftr is needed.
    Next Mnk2 gives evasion when in light armor and two feats.
    Wiz1 adds less so I'm going with Frt1/Mnk2.

    Level order:
    2 Fighter
    14/16 Monk
    Rest Cleric

    Don't mess with this lightly - you'll have feat prerequisite issues. You can't take a metamagic feat at level 1 if you start as Fighter, which is a pain as level 1 is faster when you are proficient with real weapons. And you really want Maximize and Empower both by level 7 because the burst is anemic without them.

    Feat selection:
    The number after the feat indicates which level to take it at.

    Melee feats:
    Power Attack (1 - general feat)
    Cleave (2 - Fighter bonus feat)
    Great Cleave (6 - General feat. Would rather take this at 3 but there's prerequisite issues)
    Two-Handed Fighting (14 - Monk bonus feat. Fair warning: You can ONLY take the first THF feat as a monk martial feat)
    ITHF (15)
    GTHF (18)
    Improved Critical: Slashing (12)
    Overwhelming Critical (21)

    Healing feats: (Some of these have incidental other uses, such as Divine Punishment/Bladebarrier)
    Quicken Spell (9)
    Empower Healing (1 - Human bonus feat)
    Maximize Spell (3 - General feat)

    Durability feats:
    Toughness (16 – Monk bonus feat)


    You'll notice that the level 24 feat is not specified. This is deliberate as it gives you the flexibility to swap it around for different circumstances. If you are half-elf, you will not get this option. Some viable options: Improved Sunder (primarily to reduce fort saves on mobs, it makes a difference), Epic Toughness (requires a +4 or +5 Con tome and an LR for more Con), Completionist if you are really masochistic.


    Stat array:
    Please note - this is intended as a 36 point build.

    Str: 18 + all level up points.
    Dex: 14*
    Con: 14
    Int: 8
    Wis: 10**
    Cha: 12

    * I feel the need to explain this. I feel +3 Reflex saves helps your survivability more than 27 more HP and one more turn would (18/8/16/8/10/14 stat array). But feel free to experiment, your results may vary, I just hate hearing 'can't heal, Cometfalled' in raid situations. You will notice an extraordinary emphasis in gear toward Reflex saves for this reason – again, you are welcome to play around with other setups.
    ** This is not new player friendly. Remember you can't cast spells without level-appropriate +Wisdom items. I'm assuming you have the resources to trade for +3 tomes - if you do not, go and run 5 or 6 Epic Hard VON6's and sell off your flawless red scales.


    Epic Destiny choice:
    Legendary Dreadnought.
    However, you should also seriously develop Unyielding Sentinel (for those situations where you just want to be tough as nails), Exalted Angel (for situations where you want maximum healing throughput) and Draconic Incarnation (for blitzing through easy content extremely fast with those lethal energy bursts of doom). You will also situationally want twists from a lot of different places such as the Magister 6 Ref save/3% Dodge effect.

    Standard twists of fate:
    Exalted Angel - Renew (you CANNOT use this on yourself but it is still very good)
    Magister - that Ref/Dodge one
    Unyielding Sentinel - Brace for Impact

    Obviously change these as required. In non-EE content the Draconic Incarnation point-blank AoE damage spell is obscenely powerful and you won't need Renew.


    Heroic AP suggestions:
    Obviously take Radiant Servant 2 and all prereqs.
    Fully develop healing throughput (Prayer of Life 4) and invest significantly in healing crits. Healing crits have immense synergy with your aura and also the Renewal ED ability. (Remember: the aura and your bigger healing spells, Heal and Mass Heal, get half benefit from spellpower but full benefit from crits if the crit doesn't result in wasted overhealing)
    Invest in healing amplification. 6 or 12 AP well spent. Every time your aura prevents you needing to cast a Heal on yourself, that's one more Heal cooldown you can use on the idiot PUGger that hasn't learned to avoid mob cleave attacks.
    Don't develop your Smiting line as much as most divines would. You will struggle to spare a lot of mana on DP in protracted fights.



    Gear setup:
    Please note the heavy emphasis on saving throws in this. You can't heal anyone if every comet that falls nearby knocks you down or if you lose 300hp every time a Netherese Arcanist looks at you funny.

    General purpose gearset:

    Body: Cormyrian Red Dragonscale Armor, light armor version. **Critical hotswap item: Outfit of Spell Proofing x3 or so**
    Gloves: PDK gloves
    Bracers: Bracers of Twisting Shade (highest tier you can acquire, these are sick)
    Necklace: Epic Torc of Raiyum. (Base item is a fine substitute but the slot is nice).
    Helm: Epic Mask of Comedy with Greater False Life slotted. (Don't forget the clicky, it's awesome. You'll also want the Cha on this and the lore is relevant).
    Ring 1: Tower of Despair ring (any, choose based on the stat increases not the set bonus) with 20% healing amplification on the Incredible Potential
    Ring 2: Seal of House Avithoul
    Goggles: Shroud-crafted Supreme Tyrant Ash (Hitpoints and Enervation Guard)
    Belt: Greensteel hotswap. Concordant Opposition spellpoints most of the time. For extremely dangerous situations, Radiance Guard with +1 and +2 exceptional Reflex save. Also consider making an Epic Belt of the Mroranon so you have an alternative source of Heavy Fortification for any situations where you expect you will be using Spell Proofing swapins a lot.
    Cloak: Dragon Challenge cloak. Even the level 20 one is pretty good but 24 is a big upgrade on a toon that won't usually have an implement bonus.
    Boots: Twisting Shade again, highest you can get. (Dex provides Reflex saves and this is worth a gearslot).
    Trinket: Voice of the Master is sadly best-in-slot unless you are ED capped (don't be the idiot that takes it off all the time and misses out on 5% XP from almost every optional, no other item you could put here will add enough to completion speed to make up for the wasted XP). When you are ED capped in your present destiny you can use other things here and should just swap this around a lot.


    Primary weapon sets:

    Rednameds: Epic Sword of Shadow, Epic Antique Greataxe. Easier to acquire alternative: A Falchion of Mauling with a good prefix (e.g. +6 Holy Falchion of Mauling or +4 Impellent Falchion of Mauling).
    EE orange nameds: Falchion of Obscenity if you can acquire one (good luck). Otherwise, a Supreme Tyrant one-handed weapon of Ash that you are proficient with and a shield.
    Trash: eSOS in most cases
    Full healbot mode: Primal Shield of Superior Parrying and +6 Devotion 120 Scepter of Healing Mastery. (Yes I own that shield, no you can't have it, substitute a lesser Superior Parrying shield until you fluke one. If you can't acquire that scepter, go with a +5 Devotion 120 one which should be readily available on your server's AH and doesn't perform much worse).
    Other relevant weapons: Triple positive maul, 10/15/20% fire absorb stick, 10/15/20% elec absorb stick.

    Getting maximum use out of Spell Proofing items:
    These are mostly for EE Drow Priestesses. Don't equip them unless you have enough DP (or Niacs) stacks on you that you are scared of the next one. Then equip this item when there's 7 sec left on your present DP. It will counter the DP that you were afraid of – then you can take it off again.
    Remember: If you have the aggro of a Priestess and nothing else, it IS smart to remove your Heavy Fortification armor to do this. That third DP will either kill you or force you to spend almost all your healing cooldowns on yourself for 16 seconds which is worse than briefly going fortificaiton-less – just do not forget to swap in a heavy fort item ASAP.




    This thread will be updated as necessary, I'm sure I've forgotten several things here.
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  2. #2
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    Finally a use for all those paladins we have laying around. :P
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  3. #3
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Just curious. Have you ever tried Fury of the Wild?
    I've been playing my divine THF melee for months at endgame. In any quest where masters blitz is not useful, it is just superior to LD in my opinion.
    I just wonder because you don't even list some of the abilities as twist options.
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    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    About 1/2 my guild has gone cleric.

    Consider 17/3monk (if uncentered less useful but can still pop off the odd -25% sp costs/anti stun) and 17/2monk/1wizard (force enh, masters tough, 1 feat vs 1 str, baby haste boost and 1 feat)


    Honestly, I'd go wisdom based and use handwraps, the synergy between stunning and DC casting is just too good to ignore.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I've run a WF FVS for a long time and haven't been happy with their performance since update 11.
    [snip]
    I completely shelved my first life FVS (which was the only toon I played) just before epic destinies went live for the same reason.

    I posted a build some months ago that shares some points with this one: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=385629 (only for reference, it is also a bit outdated now).

    Some key points that come to mind:
    1) How is 1 ftr required and specifically better than 1 wiz?
    You still won't need any weapon proficiency because 1 wiz grants you Master's Touch. Plus, it gives you Expeditious Retreat (bye bye Striding boots, you can wear something really useful there instead) and +40 spell power on force spells (I personally don't care much about this one, but it's there).
    Wizard is some extra sp too (and extra sp from int stat), compared to fighter.

    For these reasons, the only split I'd consider is with 2 monk/1 wiz

    2) Why so much emphasis on strength?
    Anything more than 16 points is (totally IMHO) a waste of build points.
    I can maybe (only maybe) understand it if you're going for tactics DCs, but it doesn't really seem so (no stunning blow).
    I'd personally hit 23 str for overwhelming crit and put the rest into con or dex/wis for extra hp or saves: personally I like having 50 hp more than dealing +1.5 damages per hit, especially in EE.


    That said, I'm having a lot of fun with a build similar to this when I play it, I highly recommend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    Honestly, I'd go wisdom based and use handwraps, the synergy between stunning and DC casting is just too good to ignore.
    I chose to use greataxes instead of going wisdom based with wraps to make better use of the full cleave line.
    Probably the wisdom based stun-machine is stronger, I won't argue against it. I have ZERO CC and I miss it in EE.
    I didn't have the necessary past lives to reach significant DCs for EE and in general I think I'd just have more fun this way, to each his own
    Last edited by notte.oscura; 01-07-2013 at 08:48 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    To knock out Cromix's third cleric past life I am currently levelling a different split: 17clr/2fighter/1barb. I've been pretty happy with the inherent PRR present with heavy armor use combined with radiant servant aura. Though the weapon use for this toon will be tweaked for his 'final' build. I do like the options you've presented in terms of end game for a build of this type (17clr/3something).

    My question for you lies in Charisma. It struck me as strange that you didn't invest much into it. Considering that Wisdom is dumped wouldn't you want a strong Charisma for additional turns and undead nuking?
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    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notte.oscura View Post
    I completely shelved my first life FVS (which was the only toon I played) just before epic destinies went live for the same reason.

    I posted a build some months ago that shares some points with this one: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=385629 (only for reference, it is also a bit outdated now).

    Some key points that come to mind:
    1) How is 1 ftr required and specifically better than 1 wiz?
    You still won't need any weapon proficiency because 1 wiz grants you Master's Touch. Plus, it gives you Expeditious Retreat (bye bye Striding boots, you can wear something really useful there instead) and +40 spell power on force spells (I personally don't care much about this one, but it's there).
    Wizard is some extra sp too (and extra sp from int stat), compared to fighter.

    For these reasons, the only split I'd consider is with 2 monk/1 wiz

    2) Why so much emphasis on strength?
    Anything more than 16 points is (totally IMHO) a waste of build points.
    I can maybe (only maybe) understand it if you're going for tactics DCs, but it doesn't really seem so (no stunning blow).
    I'd personally hit 23 str for overwhelming crit and put the rest into con or dex/wis for extra hp or saves: personally I like having 50 hp more than dealing +1.5 damages per hit, especially in EE.


    That said, I'm having a lot of fun with a build similar to this when I play it, I highly recommend it.


    I chose to use greataxes instead of going wisdom based with wraps to make better use of the full cleave line.
    Probably the wisdom based stun-machine is stronger, I won't argue against it. I have ZERO CC and I miss it in EE.
    I didn't have the necessary past lives to reach significant DCs for EE and in general I think I'd just have more fun this way, to each his own

    On 1): Ftr allows instant weapon swaps without proficiency issues. I'm a zerger, I don't want to waste 30 seconds buffing at every shrine (although I will do so in the rare instances that it is needed). I'm wearing the boots for the other stats (I never wear striders as I'm never without 500 Haste potions, it's just that a good set of boots has striding as a free bonus).

    Also Master's Touch is counterposed to 'real' Artificer buffs at the moment. This causes my Bard troubles in some of the raids with tricky DR bosses - they can no longer use their regular good-aligned scimitars with an external or scrolled Adamantine/Silver/CI weapons and their own Master's Touch.

    Ftr also gives a small haste boost for when you are out of LD which I think makes up for the spellpoints, and the (very) situationally useful Tower Shield proficiency. (I know Master's Touch is bugged and grants TS prof at the moment but this will be fixed one day).

    Saves are a wash and BAB is overwritten by DP when that is active (most of the time). I do think Wiz is viable, it's just not my preference.



    On 2): Here I'm not so certain 18 is optimal. 16 would allow 27 more HP and 1 more turn at the cost of 1.5 damage per hit, 4.5 per crit, 0.75 per glancing blow and 1 to-hit. To-hit is definitely relevant although not as important as pre-MOTU and so this is hard to judge, but if we assume 1 to-hit is worth 1 damage, that's a loss of 3.0625 damage per autoattack swing that is a non-crit against one target, 3.625 against two targets and so on. (Simplifying glancing blows to a 75% proc rate which is a good approximation).

    It's not a small damage loss and I think the only way to be sure is to try out both and see which works for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    My question for you lies in Charisma. It struck me as strange that you didn't invest much into it. Considering that Wisdom is dumped wouldn't you want a strong Charisma for additional turns and undead nuking?
    Cha offers little to the build. 2 points of Cha is one more turn attempt. Turns regenerate fast enough to ensure a 100% aura uptime, so all you really get is one more Mass Cure Moderate Wounds effect that burns undead like it is a Mass Heal.

    I think it offers enough as a stat to warrant the 6 Cha item and spare build points but that is about it.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Ftr also gives a small haste boost for when you are out of LD which I think makes up for the spellpoints, and the (very) situationally useful Tower Shield proficiency. (I know Master's Touch is bugged and grants TS prof at the moment but this will be fixed one day).
    Taking ftr haste boost would prevent you from taking LD haste boost so that's not any sort of benefit.

    As to the level split I think I would be more likely to dump evasion as your reflex saves won't be that great for top end EE content anyways and go for heavy armor or even some of the really good medium armors like leaves of the forest or impulse shadowmail and utilizing the higher prr.

    17 cl/2 ftr/1wiz to me is the clear way to go on a build like this. It also makes it much easier to swap into an 18 cl build later on if needed with the enhancement revamp.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by notte.oscura View Post
    1) How is 1 ftr required and specifically better than 1 wiz?
    You still won't need any weapon proficiency because 1 wiz grants you Master's Touch. Plus, it gives you Expeditious Retreat (bye bye Striding boots, you can wear something really useful there instead) and +40 spell power on force
    I thought you needed 2 wiz levels for the +40 force spellpower?

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    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Why spell proofing as opposed to say, PLIS?

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    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Taking ftr haste boost would prevent you from taking LD haste boost so that's not any sort of benefit.

    As to the level split I think I would be more likely to dump evasion as your reflex saves won't be that great for top end EE content anyways and go for heavy armor or even some of the really good medium armors like leaves of the forest or impulse shadowmail and utilizing the higher prr.

    17 cl/2 ftr/1wiz to me is the clear way to go on a build like this. It also makes it much easier to swap into an 18 cl build later on if needed with the enhancement revamp.
    Hadn't realised that haste boost issue (my Fighter hasn't been played since MOTU), oh well.

    Reflex saves should be made on a 3 or 4 against EE bosses. Testing indicated a 52 DC on EE Lailat's and also EE LOB's Cometfalls, and I think EE Mistresses of Agony are only a smidgen higher. The combination of Resistance 7, Superior Parrying, +11 Dex boots and +8 Ref saves in twists make reflex saves extraordinarily high these days. I'm not wedded to Evasion, but I feel it is more useful overall than around 10 more PRR.

    As you say however, it might be an issue come the enhancement pass. We will see.


    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Why spell proofing as opposed to say, PLIS?
    PLIS is exclusive. Spell Proofing is not, and also it recharges fully at every shrine.
    Last edited by sirgog; 01-07-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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    Community Member Jhenissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post

    On 2): Here I'm not so certain 18 is optimal. 16 would allow 27 more HP and 1 more turn at the cost of 1.5 damage per hit, 4.5 per crit, 0.75 per glancing blow and 1 to-hit. To-hit is definitely relevant although not as important as pre-MOTU and so this is hard to judge, but if we assume 1 to-hit is worth 1 damage, that's a loss of 3.0625 damage per autoattack swing that is a non-crit against one target, 3.625 against two targets and so on. (Simplifying glancing blows to a 75% proc rate which is a good approximation).

    It's not a small damage loss and I think the only way to be sure is to try out both and see which works for you.
    16 strength was my initial thought when I looked at this build. I rolled one up and I am having a blast so far. Thanks for the build.

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    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Taking ftr haste boost would prevent you from taking LD haste boost so that's not any sort of benefit.

    As to the level split I think I would be more likely to dump evasion as your reflex saves won't be that great for top end EE content anyways and go for heavy armor or even some of the really good medium armors like leaves of the forest or impulse shadowmail and utilizing the higher prr.

    17 cl/2 ftr/1wiz to me is the clear way to go on a build like this. It also makes it much easier to swap into an 18 cl build later on if needed with the enhancement revamp.
    I think both are great builds...but different.

    I ran a 17/2/1 to cap with TWF. I used Deathnips and banishers and smiters when needed. Used a Triple Pos Maul for undead...and a Min2 GAXE for bosses.
    I converted to THF purely later in the life.

    Last week, I LRed into a standard 18CLR/2MNK. I use stunning fist and I am wisdom based. I am loving it. Using Grave Wraps for stunning fist and random neg levels.

    Was really happy with the new Clonk...
    Then the unthinkable happened...I pulled the Shard of the Marilith Chain...after hunting this Shard for the last year...I finally pull it when I gave up.

    So now I am thinking about going back to 17/2/1 and Using Min2 GAXE an Triple Pos Maul. (Obviously I will keep trying to farm an ESoS and ANtique Gaxe).

    Heck I may just 18Cleric/2FTR and just go with STR/CON/WIS/some CHR and dump DEX and evasion.

    Is the EMarilith worth dumping Dex/Evasion for?

    Anyway,I like your build a lot Sirgog. I will plan my gear slots a lot off your suggestions for this build.

    I do agree with some other people though. I rather have a 16 starting STR and more build points to put elsewhere.
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    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post

    Reflex saves should be made on a 3 or 4 against EE bosses. Testing indicated a 52 DC on EE Lailat's and also EE LOB's Cometfalls, and I think EE Mistresses of Agony are only a smidgen higher. The combination of Resistance 7, Superior Parrying, +11 Dex boots and +8 Ref saves in twists make reflex saves extraordinarily high these days. I'm not wedded to Evasion, but I feel it is more useful overall than around 10 more PRR.
    Well, you didn't do a breakdown, but some EE reflex DCs are right around ~60. Evasion is nice but I just don't see this build getting the reflex to make a lot of use of it in EE.

    Mind doing a saves breakdown? They are very important nowadays in EE content particularly (not just reflex) and you seemed to have just left that out of the build description...as well as hp and sp, also very important.

    As for the drow priestess issue, I hide behind a corner or just run around them in circles, they have trouble targeting if you aren't just standing still.

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    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    Well, you didn't do a breakdown, but some EE reflex DCs are right around ~60. Evasion is nice but I just don't see this build getting the reflex to make a lot of use of it in EE.

    Mind doing a saves breakdown? They are very important nowadays in EE content particularly (not just reflex) and you seemed to have just left that out of the build description...as well as hp and sp, also very important.

    As for the drow priestess issue, I hide behind a corner or just run around them in circles, they have trouble targeting if you aren't just standing still.
    Saves:

    Class levels: 8 (5 from Clr17, 3 Mnk2)
    Dex: 9 or so (10 with ship buffs or a +5 dex tome, 11 with both). (17)
    GH: 4 (21)
    Haste: 1 (22)
    Resistance: 7 (29)
    Superior Parrying (not always equipped but can be with a weapon swap): 4 (33)
    Twists: 8 (41). Can be 14 if needed but that comes at a high cost.
    Luck: 2 (43)
    Lightning Split Soarwood ritual (44)


    That's an 8 for EE Lailat and I know I'm missing things there. Often you have a bard (+1), Paladin aura (+2 or more), optionally +2 if that 'spare feat' is used for the reflex save feat.

    Will will be lower. Fort should be OK.

    Of course I could rebuild this along the heavy armor line instead which would give access to the interesting and solid Firebreak alongside the other good armors - lots of choices here. IMO that would be a different build.

    Dancing around one priestess works fine, but usually the problem isn't fighting only one of them.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Saves:

    Class levels: 8 (5 from Clr17, 3 Mnk2)
    Dex: 9 or so (10 with ship buffs or a +5 dex tome, 11 with both). (17)
    GH: 4 (21)
    Haste: 1 (22)
    Resistance: 7 (29)
    Superior Parrying (not always equipped but can be with a weapon swap): 4 (33)
    Twists: 8 (41). Can be 14 if needed but that comes at a high cost.
    Luck: 2 (43)
    Lightning Split Soarwood ritual (44)


    That's an 8 for EE Lailat and I know I'm missing things there. Often you have a bard (+1), Paladin aura (+2 or more), optionally +2 if that 'spare feat' is used for the reflex save feat.

    Will will be lower. Fort should be OK.
    Nightshield is +3 more-yes, it stacks with resistance items. Semi-useful against raid bosses I guess...weird how they have lower DCs than some EE mobs though.

  17. #17
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Taking ftr haste boost would prevent you from taking LD haste boost so that's not any sort of benefit.
    Not quite correct. You can circumvent that (no idea if that is WAI or not).
    1. Reset your Enhancements
    2. Build up your LD tree and take the LD Action Boosts you want
    3. Change Destiny
    4. Build your Enhancement tree and take the fighter boosts you want

    I have both boosts on my toon for a very simple reason.

    When I run in LD I want the LD Hasteboost.
    When I run in Fury I just want at least the small Haste Boost option (I find other options than LD Haste Boost better for twisting on a build that only has 7 boosts...)

    In my opinion they should just scratch that mechanic since its totally absurd.
    There is no benefit if you take both boosts. They share the same counter anyway.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
    Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I thought you needed 2 wiz levels for the +40 force spellpower?
    100% sure that only 1 level of wizard is needed, as I have that. Probably you can take that enhancement when you are at character level 2, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Also Master's Touch is counterposed to 'real' Artificer buffs at the moment. This causes my Bard troubles in some of the raids with tricky DR bosses - they can no longer use their regular good-aligned scimitars with an external or scrolled Adamantine/Silver/CI weapons and their own Master's Touch.
    I didn't know that, good info, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    On 2): Here I'm not so certain 18 is optimal. 16 would allow 27 more HP and 1 more turn at the cost of 1.5 damage per hit, 4.5 per crit, 0.75 per glancing blow and 1 to-hit. To-hit is definitely relevant although not as important as pre-MOTU and so this is hard to judge, but if we assume 1 to-hit is worth 1 damage, that's a loss of 3.0625 damage per autoattack swing that is a non-crit against one target, 3.625 against two targets and so on. (Simplifying glancing blows to a 75% proc rate which is a good approximation).
    It's not a small damage loss and I think the only way to be sure is to try out both and see which works for you.
    I seem to never, ever, miss anything on EE on a 2 with only 32 str, provided that I have divine power and divine favor constantly running (which I have). So I don't think that the increase in to-hit can be counted as higher damage.
    Even if it is, we are talking about 3 damages per autoattack, when sorcerers unleash 9k AOE damage every 30 seconds for free. I don't see it as significant in the grand scheme of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Not quite correct. You can circumvent that (no idea if that is WAI or not).
    > circumvent
    > WAI
    Pick one

    On a more serious matter, someone mentioned high saves for EE: it is possible to reach 50+ reflex easily if you go helf with paladin dilettante (+5 to all saves).
    Well, not really easily: it's always a trade-off with damage in one form or another.

  19. #19
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    I must really be missing something, isn't that 34 points in your layout?

    18str=16pts
    14dex=6pts
    14con=6pts
    10wis=2pts
    12cha=4pts
    =34pts

    8111111>1411>1511>16111>17111>18

    I think I'm doing it right...
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  20. #20
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    i prefer 17cleric/2 pally /1 fighter (see Einsteinium in my sig).

    You want enough bursts and auras to be worthwhile you need cha. If you need cha and not DC's, you should take 2 pally for Saves. It's AWESOME.

    I went HELF, and fury with Momentum swing twisted for now. Too hard to maintain kills in a group for Legendary to be useful, I tried for a while. Fury is better for a non-top dps character like this.

    This build is AWESOME. I outkill all but the best melee's all the time in most content.

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