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  1. #1
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    Default 3 quests - 3 horrible deaths, and practically nothing to show for it

    Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game, just not these particular quests right now! Here I feared we were over-leveled (and indeed we may have been), and we still got wiped out.

    Tuesday night - I take my 17/2 Pale Trapper (first life human) to Reaver's Refuge with my friend's first life Half Elf 17 Druid. We go to Mt. Reysalon, fight through the gnolls, and attempt the "Enter the Kobold" quest. Says Level 17, "Challenging". We both have Cleric hirelings (even though I usually don't need one). We enter on Normal, having read nothing about the quest before. We fight our way through and get to the floor puzzle room, with glowing lights of various colors everywhere. I HATE puzzles, and so does my friend. Unbelievably, we wander around randomly enough to where we actually get through it. So we head to the final battle (about 2 hours into the quest at this point). I read up on wiki and it says to be prepared with fire resists, displacement, blur, etc. We all go in with Stoneskin, Blur (Displacement for me), gobs of energy resists, and greater heroism. We kill the kobold guy, and then get promptly wiped out by the Efreeti and at least 4 frenzied fire elementals. So after 2 hours, we have practically nothing, and an expensive (for us at least) repair session.

    Last night, we decide to try the Saomi Gardens quest instead. I forget what it's called, but its the one with a bunch of traps, lots of Drow, and many places to ride gusts of air. This time we also have a 3rd friend with us, a first life Human 16 Druid (we are all new). Again, level 17 "Challenging", and we choose Normal. I disarm all the traps, so we're excited about our + 15% xp bonus. We get into a huge room where gusts of air send you up to a spiked ceiling. The Druids die there, but my Evasion saves me. We res the dead druids and press on. Then we come to another puzzle. LOVELY. The 16 druid finally figures it out (he is our puzzle guy), and we press on to the final battle. We are about to check wiki, when this giant Scorrow boss comes running down the hallway toward us and pounding us hard. We start hurting him, and then he "pops" back to his starting location/room back at full health. We see the spots on the floor, and see that apparently we have a puzzle to figure out WHILE this guy pounds on us. Problem is, he is hitting us for over 90 damage each time, and I'm the only one there with over 300 hp. He's also apparently dropping disco balls everywhere. So for that battle we take turns dying, getting rezzed, friend dying, rezzing friend, etc, etc. I can start hurting him bad with my DOTs, but once I do he's on top of me and won't let up. I finally D-Door. We regroup, reshrine, and try again, and get wiped. Another expensive repair trip, and nothing to show for those 2 hours of play.

    Then my friends want to do the 3rd and final "Madness" quest, but on "Hard" (the one with a giant mindflayer at the end). One of them has beaten it before with a 17 barbarian on Normal, and says that we can beat Hard with this group (16, 17, 19). But Hard means that each shrine can only be used one time. We go through with no problems, killing gobs of hounds and whatever those mutant things are called. My friend wants to take on the big Beholder. I say fine. Amazingly (the one good point of the night), we finally beat the Beholder with only one death. But this still leaves the final fight. We go to the final fight, some giant levitating arena with "pods" everywhere and a huge mindflayer boss to beat. The Druids focus on the spawning enemies and I work on DOTs for the boss. But at about 25% health, the spawn rate of the enemies goes up big time (on Hard at least), and worst of all, the boss starts casting some arena wide death aura type thing that hits us for over 90 hp each tick. Everyone wipes except me. I gather the stones and D-door out of there. But of course we can't use the shrines again because we chose "Hard"! We try again anyway, and see that he is fully healed back at 100% health. TERRIFIC. We get wiped aout t about the same point - boss near 25% health. Another expensive repair trip, and after another 90 minutes or so we got one treasure chest.

    Now that's a lot of background there, and I appreciate your patience, while I make this point. We played this game (2 of us at least), for 6 hours, on quests that were equal to or below our levels, and we got practically nothing for doing so. This is because of the "All or nothing" nature of the quests in this game in order to get XP. You don't really get XP as you go along. If you get to a puzzle at the end that you can't break, you get nothing. If you can't beat the final boss, you get nothing for your efforts leading up to that point. It just felt pointless for us 3 new guys, and is frankly making us reconsider our investments in this game. If level 19 characters can't beat level 15-17 quests (with 3 cleric hirelings by the way), then it makes me wonder what we are doing wrong. Are these quests designed with TR characters in mind? Are they assuming uber gear for these final fights? Are they designed for a 6 player party? We are all wearing/wielding only the best stuff that we can afford from the auction house.

    It just feels like I read of people soloing these quests on Heroic Elite (or even higher), and I'm left thinking that I'm just an absolutely terrible player.

    I'm not exactly sure what I'm asking for here, other than venting a little. I guess I'm just hoping against hope that these are 3 uniquely challenging quests, and that most 15+ quests are not like this.

    Thanks for listening, and especially for any pointers you can offer to us "newbies".

  2. #2

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    You gave three wonderful examples why most players either skip those quests or drop their bravery bonus or add a player or hireling that would negate the bravery bonus.

    Plenty of other quests to run, those are murder for the unprepared (and prepared for that matter, lol).

    ETK - I've been in many TR vet groups that wipe in that quest - Park a hireling/dog at the barrier to get players access to the rez shrine.

    Monestary of the Scorpion (Soami Gardens) - You will need to solve the puzzle in the room to kill the scorrow. Can be killed without the puzzle, but takes much longer. The buttons on the floor casts the dancing balls, whether you or the bad guys step on them.

    In the Flesh - Really tough quest at level. Key is to have CC for the end fight. CC will take it from nearly impossible to a snooze fest (sorta).
    Last edited by madmaxhunter; 01-03-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member LoveNeverFails's Avatar
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    From my experience these are three uniquely challanging quests. Enter the Kobold is one in particular that even my guildies who have been running for ages cringe when it comes time to farm that particular quest for XP. Monestary (the second one you guys did) is also a PITA at the boss fight. I've always run it with TRs who knew their stuff and can basically solo the endboss and do the puzzle while the rest of the party is standing around with a thumb up their bum killing the occasional scorpian that spawns.

    Fear not, and don't be discouraged. Those quests out there are a particular pain in the butt to do. I can't think of another at that level that is as irritating, to be honest. Try Inspired Quarter, or Eveningstar if you have access to it for a change of pace.

    With those other ones in Reavers, I'd reccommend trying to get a full group together and run through that way.
    Last edited by LoveNeverFails; 01-03-2013 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #4
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    It just feels like I read of people soloing these quests on Heroic Elite (or even higher), and I'm left thinking that I'm just an absolutely terrible player.
    Accept you are forgetting one very important piece of perspective.

    How do you think they did their first time in, cold? A little (meta) knowledge goes a LONG way.

    I can do quests I do know a heck of a lot easier and with really screwy builds. Try doing that with something brand new and I'm probably going to take my wrist slaps like everyone else.

    This is the majority of it. Secondaries of player skill/intuition and good machines make up the rest of the difference, but in this case not so much.

    The first time I did the last quest of the dreaming dark series it took me 1-2 hours and we didn't find everything. The next time it took 2 hours because I was determined to figure out the use of the keys. We had only found one the first time in. Most of that time in the second run was spent figuring out the keys as we got the idea and what to expect of the boss with the first run in and were better prepared. And more and it doesn't take but between 30min to 60min depending on the group. That is how much knowledge of quests come into play.

  5. #5
    Community Member jambajuicey's Avatar
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    The three quest you listed aren't exactly on the easy side, in fact I think you mentioned they are 'challenging' rated. There are some quests that are particularly hard for their level, (ex: Proof is in the Poison) If you come prepared and 'in the know' about what to expect, these can be trivial, thus the I've solo'd X quest you've read. Those solos are not in the typical feat by first time players (or even second) at all. The higher level quests do get more challenging, but you'll find those that are more easily done (I'm sure someone has compiled a list - I'm just not aware of it) Don't be discouraged too bad, its part of the learning experience.. there are a few threads in the general forum now about how people feel this game is too easy.. after a few TRs, you maybe in that same boat! It does suck to spend all that time and money with not much to show for it, but in reality, you have experienced it now and know what to expect a bit more. I know this post maybe too positive for some, but I enjoy the learning (after I get over the defeat!)

  6. #6
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    What the other posters said - these are examples of difficult quests. Not being able to do them first time on normal with no advance knowledge of them is a good sign, not a bad one. It means that you'll get a huge feeling of accomplishment when you learn how to beat them.

    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    We played this game (2 of us at least), for 6 hours, on quests that were equal to or below our levels, and we got practically nothing for doing so. This is because of the "All or nothing" nature of the quests in this game in order to get XP. You don't really get XP as you go along.
    Also, you did gain a lot of valuable experience going in there - a) you learned that those quests are tough. b) you learned what is in those quests, what to expect etc. c) you got a glimpse of the vistas of power, cunning, and skill that lie before you as you progress from where you are now, to where those 1337s that can solo these at level on Elite are.

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  7. #7
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Problem is, he is hitting us for over 90 damage each time, and I'm the only one there with over 300 hp.
    This is where I stopped reading.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    If you're not appropriate for normal, do casual. If xp were given halfway through the quest, people wouldn't ever bother completing in the flesh/enter the kobold. Stop asking for more easy buttons, if you want an autocompletion do casual.

    /thread.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 01-03-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Reaver's Refuge quests - and especially Enter the Kobold - are difficult. I have yet to be in any group that did the Enter the Kobold endfight with at least 1 death per player. You really need a a dedicated non-AI healer to pull it off on anything other than normal.

    And yeah, at that point in the game, you should have 300 or more HP.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    Whenever I run a quest I've never done before I read about it on wiki before I start, not at the end fight. Information is the best weapon anybody can have.

  11. #11
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    Just to clarify, I'm the level 19 one, 17 wiz/2 rog. I have an Improved False Life item, toughness, 2 toughness enhancements, and Palemaster 2. I started with 18 CON and 18 INT (32 point build) and have a Health + 6 item. I have 342 hp. I really don't know any way to get more hp right now other than a Greater False Life item. I will get more with Palemaster III at 20 also.

    One Druid is 17, and the other is 16. I have no idea how many hps druids get per level. Are you saying that at those levels, as first lifers, they should also have more than 300 hp? I did notice that all our Cleric hirelings had more than 300 hp (levels 16-17 hirelings).

    Thanks again.

  12. #12
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    If you are going to go into a quest for the first time with no prior knowledge about the quest at all, you should not only prepare to have a few wipes, you should expect it. Those three quests you mentioned are some of the tougher quests in the 16-20 level range, especially for people who don't already know them. If you want to go into a quest with no idea what to do, that is your choice. But you need to understand that doing so will invariably lead to party wipes, which means no rewards.

  13. #13
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    One Druid is 17, and the other is 16. I have no idea how many hps druids get per level. Are you saying that at those levels, as first lifers, they should also have more than 300 hp?
    Considering my lvl 16, 2nd lifer drow druid has about 350 if not more HP, yes. And I am wearing a gfl. (my drow is only a 30 pt build with -2 con, compared to your druid at 28 pts, and may or may not be elf. If nto elf, that druid really should have more.)

  14. #14
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    dear op:

    Im a multi TR, multi alt 5 year vet, on my last TR run with a balanced group enter the kobold beat us - we were playing on eilte.

    In the same way we had to come back to it at a later lvl (came back at 22 and SMASHED IT), you may have to do the same - or be prepared to play on a lower setting, or both.

    These 3 quests ARE challenging, they are labeled as such. There is nothing wrong with that. Play on a lower dificulty setting or come back to it when you are more experienced.
    Ex Euro player from devourer: Charaters on orien(Officer of Under Estimated & Nightfox): Wrothgar, Cobolt, Shadeweaver, TheMetal, Metaphysical, Allfred, Razortusk and many more.
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  15. #15
    Community Member honkuimushi's Avatar
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    Back in 2007, a guildie told me "Turbine doesn't make hard quests, they make tricky quests." While things have changed over the years, this is still true for much of the game. What he meant is that most of the harder quests had a handful of tricks that, if you knew about ahead of time, made the quest a breeze. But if you went in blind, made the quest a nightmare.

    One of the early examples is Missing in Action. If you know that the levers tun off the spike traps and where they are usually found, that approaching the crystal spawns enemies, and pulling the lever spawns a trog shaman-- then take things in order, it's an easy quest. But I've lost track of how many pugs I've been in where someone runs straight to a lever and pulls it-- spawning the zombies, the lever guardians, the shaman, leaving all the other enemies untouched while frying the rest of the party with the electricity traps they were trying to disable.

    I don't know much about the Reaver's Reach quests. For several of the reasons you mentioned, they don't get pugged much and I'm not currently in a guild. I have done Prey on the Hunter a few times back when it was released, but that's about it.

    On the other hand, I do know the Habringer of Madness series, having soloed it several times and done several Elite groups. That last fight(and the optional Doomsphere) are the only really challenging parts, but there's a trick to the last part. As was mentioned before, CC is very useful-- especially on elite with the beholders that strip your buffs and block casting. But there shouldn't be any beholders on hard. The real trick is the mindblast that got you. That wiped one of the parties I did it with. We tried it again and wiped at the same part. We had had no problems to that point, but that mindblast got us. But once I learned the trick, I haven't failed yet, even with weaker parties. The secret is that before he uses the mindblast, three pods appear in front of him. There should be some DM narration to that affect as well. If you break the pods, he can't use the mindblast. If he's already started, it ends it immediately. It also stuns him and gives you a chance to beat on him for a few seconds. That should allow you to finish this quest on Hard, maybe even Elite.

  16. #16
    Community Member ArgentMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    Whenever I run a quest I've never done before I read about it on wiki before I start
    Being a die-hard soloist, I've always tried to run a quest the first time with no
    up-front knowledge. This doesn't always result in a completion, but (for me, anyway),
    it's more interesting, and for the most part I think this was how the developers
    intended it.

    That said, with experience has come the awareness that when the panel comes up
    and says a quest is "challenging", I will go and read up on it to find out why.

    As a side note, for the vast majority of quest chains, the difference between "Normal"
    and "Hard" is pretty straightforward, but a couple of chains, like Harbinger/Madness
    and Lordsmarch, the difficulty seems to go up more than usual on Hard and Elite.

    So, if it's any comfort, I'd say that you just went down a rough road and got a
    bit banged up for your troubles. Sounds like you have a decent group and will
    get back in the groove once you get a couple of completions.

  17. #17
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    Ignore players telling you how many hp you need. Don't worry they will tell you what tshirt to wear when you wake up
    and what computer to buy and what to have for lunch if they could....

    If you had 400 hp the end result will still be the same....I had 700+ hp and run this
    quest on elite and i'm usually the lucky one who ends up kiting the boss while one of the other players does the puzzle.
    (kiting: running with boss's attention while party completes objective.) The disco balls are a pain and thats where a Paladin
    kiter shines here but as the dificulty goes up so do the needed saves. The puzzle can get lucky sometimes and almost complete
    it self....while other times the puzzle can be a pain in the ass and there is a good chance this quest is a fail. Done this quest 100+
    times and trust me there are still fail's even after that many its a challenging one.

    On that note though this quest can be a really great quest for xp to min and loot.
    Its your first time and hopefully not your last, the next one may fail too but at least
    you will know whats around that corner and how to best prepare.

    I comend you on doing a quest with no one in party having experiance It was prolly
    and adventure....one that some of us Veterans still miss and enjoy with new content.
    As someone said this content has its own little unique challanges that sadly the previous content did not prepare you for.

    V

  18. #18
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    To be fair these quests are brutal, from a more sadistic past incarnation of DDO. I would skip them all, unless you really want DT armor for some reason.
    Last edited by Nitesco; 01-03-2013 at 03:44 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    Default ETK nightmare

    I feel you pain OP. Enter the Kobold is still giving me nightmares. I'm a knew player too and have been in more than
    a few wipes, but it does feel good to come back into a dungeon and finally clear it. Theres a big learning curve in
    this game, at least for me, but some players will help you out, and you will get better.
    Mangas Geronimo (Paladin) Grocery Baggs (Ranger) Naiche Geronimo (Cleric)

  20. #20
    Community Member UnderwearModel's Avatar
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    Default Wiping on ETK, bAh!!!!

    What? Your first time through a quest and you think you should ace it? No way. It takes quite a few trips to go through a quest. After your 40th run through any quest it is ok, this is going to happen and now this, I gotta stand here, yada yada yada.

    You have gained experience.

    Everyone has wiped on ETK. Do not feel bad.

    When that first came out it was a challenge to not die 20 times on the end battle. The strategy was, you parked someone up above to grab stones and run like heck to resurrect. Fun times, Heck, sometimes we won it with just about all of our gear broken. I am smiling just thinking of those first few "challenging" times.

    You picked some challenging quests to run, that you were not familiar. You did fine. If the game was easy, most of us would quit. We have to have a challenge.

    I say good for you for trying!!! The next time you beat it you will feel that bit of exhiliration from victory.
    Last edited by UnderwearModel; 01-03-2013 at 02:42 PM.
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