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  1. #1
    Community Member MaxenThor's Avatar
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    Default Epic Destiny for Pure Artificer

    I have just reached Level 20 with my Artificer. I am confused as to which Epic Destiny to choose. And reading DDOwki has confused me even more. I see Artificer listed under one of the Arcane Destiny's. Are these the ones to choose. Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks.
    Maxen Thor

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Dielzen's Avatar
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    As a level 20 Artificer you'll *have* to choose a destiny in the Arcane sphere when you first start. I'd start in Magister and work over to Shiradi. By the time you get to Shiradi you'll have a few twist points to use and you can look at what else you want.

  3. #3
    Community Member elgranmago13's Avatar
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    If I did it over, I would start with fatesinger just so I would be that much closer to shadowdancer and then shiradi.

  4. #4
    Community Member Brennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dielzen View Post
    As a level 20 Artificer you'll *have* to choose a destiny in the Arcane sphere when you first start. I'd start in Magister and work over to Shiradi. By the time you get to Shiradi you'll have a few twist points to use and you can look at what else you want.
    This is true, however I disagree with the recommendation.

    You do have to start in the Arcane sphere, and Shiradi is probably the best overall destiny for an artificer who uses a crossbow most of the time.

    Fatesinger gives some combat buffs via song type stuff, and the pretty cool Echo of the Ancestors: Shiradi (10% attack speed bonus!), but more importantly gets you one step closer to Shiradi. You can always swing back through magister to give it a go, but I don't feel like it would mesh amazingly well with an Arti who doesn't use spells offensively all that much (Though evo bonus to runearms and bladebarrier is nice)

    If you plan to sweep the entire map, picking up twists and experimenting, then it doesn't really matter where you start :P

  5. #5
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Yep, definitely start with Fatesinger. No need to get all 5 levels, just get 4 to fill in the bubbles to Shadowdancer. Now you just need 3 levels to fill in the bubbles to Legendary Dreadnought. Here you again need 4 levels to fill the bubbles to Shiradi.

    Shiradi is where you want to be for a range focused artificer. Pick up all 5 levels here.

    Do it this way and you will have done 4+3+4+5=16 destiny levels. That is 5 fate points, enough to open up a L2 twist and a L1 twist. Going back to Magister, Draconic Incarnation or Grandmaster of Flowers -- or dropping in on Primal Avatar or Fury of the Wild -- lets you pick up some easy levels to get to 6 fate points. Doing a single level in each gets you to 7 fate points and doing 2 levels in each gets you 8 fate points and leaves you 1 level short of having 9 fate points.

    Remember that you get a fate point for every 3 destiny levels and it takes a lot less XP to pick up the first couple of levels because the XP requirement is scaled (low for the first levels, high for the last levels) in each epic destiny.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    From my own personal experience I'd say there are three destinies which are optimal for an arti: shadowdancer, draconic incarnation, and shiradi. Personally I think shiradi is the worst of the three, though still a viable option. It seems like the obvious choice because of its focus on augmenting ranged attacks. But if your arti is casting focused then you cannot take int enhancements while in shiradi, which means your dc's suffer. The raw dps that shiradi adds is comparable to the sneak attack damage that you get from shadowdancer. Shiradi also has several effects that cannot be quantified so it's hard to say exactly how much benefit they provide. Personally I like shadowdancer because it boosts every aspect of the artificer's capabilities: int enhancements to boost casting and rune arm dc's (as well as ranged damage through insightful damage), 6d6 sneak attack added to ranged dps, and a lot of defense with extra dodge, 25% incorporeal, and evasion.

    Draconic incarnation is a good nuking option. Energy burst is pretty powerful, but can also be twisted. If you use either Toven's Hammer or Corruption of Nature then you can add 30 spell power to the appropriate damage type. My only disappointment with draconic is that you cannot boost force spell power, which has a great deal of synergy with the artificer class.

    If your arti is casting focused I'd recommend considering magister's evocation specialist and draconic's precise casting as twists, which adds +5 to your evo dc's. If you're going that route then I'd start in either magister or draconic incarnation.

    tl;dr If you only focus on crossbow dps, then the choice is between shiradi and shadowdancer. If you prefer defense and consistency, shadowdancer is the choice. If you prefer the theme of randomness, shiradi is the choice. If you focus on casting then the choice is between shadowdancer and draconic. Shadowdancer for defense and draconic for nuking.

    I'm not maxed out on all destinies, but that has been my experience with those three which seem the optimal choices for an arti.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  7. #7
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    From my own personal experience I'd say there are three destinies which are optimal for an arti: shadowdancer, draconic incarnation, and shiradi.
    Ditto.

    Except that I love shiradi. Some people just get too focused on Double Rainbow because it is fun and awesome, but going Stay Good (if they fix the tier 3 bug) helps you having permanent good damage bypass (thus saving infusions for deadly on non-holy bows), and the damage proc is not bad compared to double rainbow (and is a lot cheaper, double rainbow alone costs 6 destiny points). You also get energy absorption, DR 7/cold iron (aka, unpassable out of PvP), 15 minutes of Healing over time per shrine, and god-like to-hit bonus with fey favor (amazing for artificers, since they don't boost dex that much).

    My first recomendation is for you to work your way to Shiradi. You will have time to experiment shadowdancer on the way, and after maximizing Shiradi levels, you can return and try Draconic or cap shadowdancer. And then choose for yourself.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    going Stay Good (if they fix the tier 3 bug) helps you having permanent good damage bypass (thus saving infusions for deadly on non-holy bows), and the damage proc is not bad compared to double rainbow (and is a lot cheaper, double rainbow alone costs 6 destiny points).
    That's a good point nibel, I hadn't really considered going with stay good stance, but 3d20 + deadly weapons does add more (consistent) damage than double rainbow and would push the damage higher than what shadowdancer offers. It also means you could use Needle exclusively. I might have to respec to try it out when it gets fixed.
    White Feather Sniper: dps focused, 62DC paralyzing arrows human ranged ranger/The Divine Cuisinart: human tempest in divine crusader/Hassan's Assassin: 81DC halfling assassin/The Count of Monte Cristo: human swashbuckler/Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer
    Abandoned builds: Totally Bass Ackwards/Santa's Little Slayer

  9. #9
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Most people ignore Stay Good because it is a tier 4 stance, and they are investing on Prism since tier 2. But let's analyze Prism and Rainbow:

    -Ability damage proc is basically useless at epic hard or higher because of Epic Ward.
    -1d100 random element damage is too random to be reliable, and sometimes procs a healing. Most of the time people are seeing the innate 10d10 sonic damage proc or the innate 2d100 force proc and crediting Rainbow for it.

    So, yeah. Without Double Rainbow, even Stay Frost is better than Prism. 1d100 damage (too swingy to be reliable) is worse than 3d20 (average 32 damage, less swingy) + crippling strike with the same proc rate.

    In the end, it boils down if you want permagood or the fun random effects of double rainbow. There are some stuff on double rainbow that is incredibly awesome (like that permanent cold dot, or the atomic barrel bomb), but maybe you don't like to trust things on luck.

    Other thing I find funny is people saying "oh, you can't invest points on Int if you go Shiradi". Even on DI/Magister, I don't have enough Destiny Points left to invest on Int. There is just too much good things to invest on. The only destiny that I spent more than 2 points buying ability scores was Dreadnough on my ranged characters, and mostly because they didn't have PA or CE, so the tier 2 is basically entirelly red.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  10. #10
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    one of the best parts of shiradi, or one of the best things to twist in is both Pin and Whistler. Both of these can pretty much be no save AoE stuns. (they put the mobs into the +150% damage state)

    if you're in shiradi you can twist in the +5 evoc DC's. if you're in draconic you can twist in the ranged stuns along with the +3 DC.


    I thought I'd love shadowdancer as well, but execustioners shot just **** me off. It was bugged out for so long, and when it finally started working it has a crappy % to work off a charge. Plus you either twist in the +DC's to synegize with the Int enhancements or you miss out on some of the must haves from shiradi.

    I used to think all 3 trees could be optimal. But I personally wouldnt want to play an arti w/o both the + 5 DCs, and both ranged stuns. Which leaves you with shiradi or draconic
    Shadowsteel [TR train wreck]

  11. #11
    Community Member MaxenThor's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your responses they are most helpful.
    Maxen Thor

  12. #12
    Community Member tekkentroop's Avatar
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    My arti is going for shadowdancer, with evasion and the +7 to all trapping skills he is going to be a better trapper and with ddoor he will be better soloing challenges (parked him at 20). For dps, the other destinies are better, draconic will be VERY interesting for a bastard sword arti.

    Makkuroi: Caster TR (4th life: human FVS/Monk in progress)--Makkutank: Juggernaut copy (3rd life: WF Arti/Monk/Pal in progress)--Bringthem Backalive: Divine Caster, former main (2nd life: human lvl 24 FVS)--Makkuros - craftbot (human lvl 20 artificer)--

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I have a pure 20 Artificer and I started in Fatesinger. As most point out it is the closest step from Arcane to Sharidi and since you have to put 4 ranks to open that bridge anyway, might as well get it done early on.

    However, I need to point something out. My artificer also has two past lives, one barbarian and the other bard. The FS song enhancements work with the Bard Past Life song (Don't add more songs but can get the effects). I mention this because this is my only character that can actually twist in Tier 1 and Tier 2 abilities like O'Fortuna or Tailwind. Also while in that destiny I effectively have even more songs available.

    I just finished 4 Ranks in Shadowdancer, and while I like some of the abilities I'm not happy with it as far as increasing my DPS.

    I'm now working on LD, I suspect that I will get very little out of this destiny other than MORE HP as I'm a range build and not melee. But I'm looking forward to the Sharidi ED with all its range goodness.

    I've actually come to the opinion that it is better to start at a Bridge ED to start with as this opens up more options for the Next ED. Example if you start in Magistar once you get 3 ranks you have two options, if you go one more rank you still have two options. Starting in Fatesinger once you get 3 ranks you have two options, if you go one more you now have three options open. The more options you have the better the experience.

  14. #14
    Community Member moops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    one of the best parts of shiradi, or one of the best things to twist in is both Pin and Whistler. Both of these can pretty much be no save AoE stuns. (they put the mobs into the +150% damage state)

    if you're in shiradi you can twist in the +5 evoc DC's. if you're in draconic you can twist in the ranged stuns along with the +3 DC.
    I'd second this. We have been using a ranged arti with Pin/Whistler for our EE cc when we can't land a caster or bard, and usually even if we can. Those are just crazy good CC.

    Best High Road EE Detour group I had was no caster, but a ranger and and Arti using these, along with a Monk.
    Hexxa CLR 25 *TR* * ~Hexanna ~*TR* FVS 25 * Hexecuter CLR 20 *Flexanna RGR/R/M 18/1/1 *TR* * Flexa FTR/R 18/2 TR * Hextravaganz Bard *TR* 18/2 * Hexotic Sorc 13 * Hexquisite Wiz 23 * ~~Quantum Entropy * SARLONA~~ - * and various other scoundrels

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    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I really, really, really enjoyed draconic. Really. I can Shiradi as fun, and I suppose if I speced for electric Fatesinger could be fun.

    I'm not a fan on a casting arti of going Shadowdancer.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #16

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    I’ll echo the Shiradi/Shadowdancer/Draconic sentiment here. I prefer Shiradi for the most part though.

    Both Shiradi and Shadowdancer suffer from the “Thank you reload animation for ****ing up my active attack. bug. It’s more noticeable on the dancer though. (Because you need the attacks to build up charges.)

    Beyond the obvious ranged attack boosts, Shiradi is nice for evocation artificers as well. You get 10 free spell power from the Shiradi Tier 1 and Tier 3 Innates. You can get another 21 Spell power from Fey Spring (+6) and Fey Form (+15). Also the Shiradi procs happen anytime a target enters your Blade Barrier, gets hit by Lightning Motes, Prismatic Strike or Tactical Det.

    Shadowdancer starts off kind of slow. But, once you get Executioners Strike and Needle… Well, lets just say that crits are fun.

    As for Draconic Incarnation… I have a Toven’s Hammer, maxed out Spell power enhancements for electricity, Lightning Motes and Energy Burst. It’s pretty easy to figure out what kind of mayhem can be unleashed with this combo.

    Honorable Mention:

    Magister is a fairly easy destiny to level up on an arti if you’re evocation specced. At the very least the evocation boosts are worth getting so you can twist them.

    Fatesinger is fun to get to level 5 in. The Innate feats, Tailwind, Reign, Aria and Wizard Ancestors enhancements are a lot of fun.

    Primal Avatar isn’t bad. It’s pretty easy to keep “Spirit of Strength” running so long as you use your rune arm and blade barrier. The “Rejuvenation Cocoon” and “Summer Smoke” are nice twists to have available.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • One loot system to rule them all. (Including Cannith Crafting, and Named Loot.)
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Adjusting Challenge XP so that they're worth running more than once.

  17. #17

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    Exact in the same position, thank you very much for these posts.
    I begin understanding epic destinies. Not so difficult after all.
    Sé que soy un irresponsable y un mal profesional, y puede que esté desaprovechando la oportunidad de mi vida. Lo sé, pero tengo una tonter*a en el coco: no me gusta tomarme el DDO como un trabajo. Si lo hiciera no ser*a yo. Sólo juego por divertirme.

  18. #18
    Community Member Valiance's Avatar
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    My favorite hands down is Draconic. I have said this before but it bears repeating. Getting the top version of Corruption of Nature, Rock Boots, and going acid Draconic is just silly, silly dps.

    Also I only did minor testing but I am fairly certain that you get a +5 boost to rune arm damage dice by being Draconic (or Magister or Fatesinger). This boost alone makes these head and shoulders above the other choices imo.

    For some numbers Corruption is 19+5.5/arti level of damage. This means that normally you are capped out at 19+110 or 129 base damage per "shot". With Draconic as your destiny you get 19+137.5 or 156.5 base damage per "shot". This is about a 21% increase in rune arm damage. That is crazy.

    When in DI my arti has an acid spell power of over 250 (should peak out at actually 293 I believe). Even at 250 though your Corruption of Nature will do 156.5 *3.5 * 5 or 2738.5 every 6 seconds. In other words your rune arm alone will do DPS of 456/second, at range, for ever. These numbers don't even factor in crits. Awesome.

    On top of that you add 1) highest DCs for your spells and rune arm 2) energy burst, dragon breath, flyby attack, daunting roar (attacks will save), energy vortex, and decent epic moment. Plus you have the ability to twist in pin and whistler's from Shiradi.

    Just for fun let's calculate the damage from energy vortex. Vortex is 1d6/caster level every 2 seconds for 45 seconds. This would be 3.5*25*3.5 or roughly 306 damage every 2 seconds, AOE.

    I think you guys get my drift.

    V

  19. #19
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moops View Post
    I'd second this. We have been using a ranged arti with Pin/Whistler for our EE cc when we can't land a caster or bard, and usually even if we can. Those are just crazy good CC.

    Best High Road EE Detour group I had was no caster, but a ranger and and Arti using these, along with a Monk.
    Hey, I have a comment and a question. I use Whistler almost non-stop, but have never seen a mob dance. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

    Question: Can you use both Pin and Whistler by keeping one constantly going when the timer is on the other?

    Thanks in advance!

  20. #20
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiance View Post
    My favorite hands down is Draconic. I have said this before but it bears repeating. Getting the top version of Corruption of Nature, Rock Boots, and going acid Draconic is just silly, silly dps.

    Also I only did minor testing but I am fairly certain that you get a +5 boost to rune arm damage dice by being Draconic (or Magister or Fatesinger). This boost alone makes these head and shoulders above the other choices imo.

    For some numbers Corruption is 19+5.5/arti level of damage. This means that normally you are capped out at 19+110 or 129 base damage per "shot". With Draconic as your destiny you get 19+137.5 or 156.5 base damage per "shot". This is about a 21% increase in rune arm damage. That is crazy.

    When in DI my arti has an acid spell power of over 250 (should peak out at actually 293 I believe). Even at 250 though your Corruption of Nature will do 156.5 *3.5 * 5 or 2738.5 every 6 seconds. In other words your rune arm alone will do DPS of 456/second, at range, for ever. These numbers don't even factor in crits. Awesome.

    On top of that you add 1) highest DCs for your spells and rune arm 2) energy burst, dragon breath, flyby attack, daunting roar (attacks will save), energy vortex, and decent epic moment. Plus you have the ability to twist in pin and whistler's from Shiradi.

    Just for fun let's calculate the damage from energy vortex. Vortex is 1d6/caster level every 2 seconds for 45 seconds. This would be 3.5*25*3.5 or roughly 306 damage every 2 seconds, AOE.

    I think you guys get my drift.

    V
    To reach those numbers, I'm assuming you go 7/6/6 in acid enhancements? Does that mean you forgo the kinetic line?

    I've gone force and fire, so that my blade barrier, tactical detonation and prismatic spray are maxed out (plus I use a force arm). But I don't think this will max damage the way you have done in Draconic.

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