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  1. #101
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    saved for later use

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    I think it's joy of the mad queen you're talking about?
    Ya, joy will 4-5x your damage output.

    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    I'm finding Shiradi a bit too unpredictable for the Tor dragon fights.
    Also, how are dealing with mantles?
    It is unpredictable and you can't rely on having joy for specific fights unless you cheese it with re-entries, but the good thing is that all the Tea buffs are very, very strong. You can get 300hp, 75% elemental absorb, 100 PRR, joy or 10 to all saves. Then there's also some additional stuff like Indulgences of a Mad Queen which will probably increase your dps by 10-15x if not more for 45 seconds. Indulgences is extremely rare though, I've only ever gotten it once in several months.

    Mantles I deal with by bringing other people to handle them. That or very, very slowly. They're not very common anyway, as far as Tor is concerned only the black giant has it.
    Last edited by Viisari; 03-12-2013 at 06:27 AM.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    It is unpredictable and you can't rely on having joy for specific fights unless you cheese it with re-entries, but the good thing is that all the Tea buffs are very, very strong. You can get 300hp, 75% elemental absorb, 100 PRR, joy or 10 to all saves. Then there's also some additional stuff like Indulgences of a Mad Queen which will probably increase your dps by 10-15x if not more for 45 seconds. Indulgences is extremely rare though, I've only ever gotten it once in several months.
    Yeah, I had indulgence the other night. Very cool (only ever had it once too).
    I agree that Tea is awesome, 75% elemental resists before dragon fights comes
    in very handy . I only solo, so EH only (which I know is not relevant to how
    you play the game) but DI is much stronger on this difficulty IME. Worth
    bearing mind for others reading this thread who don't run EE much. Really like
    your EE Tor entrance vid by the way

    Mantles I deal with by bringing other people to handle them. That or very, very slowly. They're not very common anyway, as far as Tor is concerned only the black giant has it.
    Yeah, I killed the dragon 3-4 times the last time I did this because of the
    giant's mantle and repeatedly getting a ~600 a tic rainbow proc on the dragon.
    In DI this fight is over in less than a minute.

  4. #104
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Yeah, I had indulgence the other night. Very cool (only ever had it once too).
    I agree that Tea is awesome, 75% elemental resists before dragon fights comes
    in very handy . I only solo, so EH only (which I know is not relevant to how
    you play the game) but DI is much stronger on this difficulty IME. Worth
    bearing mind for others reading this thread who don't run EE much. Really like
    your EE Tor entrance vid by the way



    Yeah, I killed the dragon 3-4 times the last time I did this because of the
    giant's mantle and repeatedly getting a ~600 a tic rainbow proc on the dragon.
    In DI this fight is over in less than a minute.
    Entirely possible to solo Tor with shiradi or draconic. Give it a shot sometime, you might surprise yourself.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Entirely possible to solo Tor with shiradi or draconic. Give it a shot sometime, you might surprise yourself.
    To paraphrase one of my favourite Dodgeball quotes, "I do suck something awful..."


    I think I just need to get used to Shiradi. I'm much more used to a predictable
    DPS style.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Yeah, I had indulgence the other night. Very cool (only ever had it once too).
    I agree that Tea is awesome, 75% elemental resists before dragon fights comes
    in very handy . I only solo, so EH only (which I know is not relevant to how
    you play the game) but DI is much stronger on this difficulty IME. Worth
    bearing mind for others reading this thread who don't run EE much. Really like
    your EE Tor entrance vid by the way



    Yeah, I killed the dragon 3-4 times the last time I did this because of the
    giant's mantle and repeatedly getting a ~600 a tic rainbow proc on the dragon.
    In DI this fight is over in less than a minute.
    Ya Dragonic and necro casters are still very powerful in EH content and below, draconic isn't too bad for EE either but it does runs out of juice much quicker than a shiradi would plus the DC's can be difficult to hit against evasion mobs on non-draconic spells.

    I usually only make videos like that because arguing against or explaining things to some people on these forums is often futile because they think they already know the best. It's just easier to prove a point by showing it...

    Now if I could just pull that damnable EE globe from black dragon and get to redo my enhancements for even more spell power...

    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    I think I just need to get used to Shiradi. I'm much more used to a predictable
    DPS style.
    Personally I feel that over long periods the dps of shiradi is very consistent. On low hp mobs it will seem very spikey, sometimes they go down instantly and sometimes you've to spend ages killing them. But if we've a mob with 500 000 hit points a shiradi will do very nice and constant damage to it.
    Last edited by Viisari; 03-12-2013 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    Now if I could just pull that damnable EE globe from black dragon and get to redo my enhancements for even more spell power...
    Nice problem to have. I'm still trying to get the right permutation of black helm
    to drop (+3 str) so that I can TR and join the Juggernaut army

  8. #108
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Nice problem to have. I'm still trying to get the right permutation of black helm
    to drop (+3 str) so that I can TR and join the Juggernaut army
    Heh, I have my helm sitting in my bank just waiting to gear up my juggernaut...my sorc, though, is having bad luck at getting almost any of the gear she wants (including a +3 con helm).

    Shiradi Sorc has felt extremely powerful for EE GH, though.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Nice problem to have. I'm still trying to get the right permutation of black helm
    to drop (+3 str) so that I can TR and join the Juggernaut army
    Well I haven't pulled a single black helm yet on any difficulty and I need two constitution versions, haven't gotten any of the three bloods I need either

    I was actually thinking that I'd get a third black/white con helm for my sorc to go along with ghost-waker cloak and halcyon boots and then crafting GS HP item. But since I haven't actually done that yet I started thinking that going with Surefooted boots and those gloves with +8 dex and two slots might be even better.

    Most of my attention has been going to gearing my main at the moment though so the progress on that front has been a bit slow

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Heh, I have my helm sitting in my bank just waiting to gear up my juggernaut...my sorc, though, is having bad luck at getting almost any of the gear she wants (including a +3 con helm).
    Well, I have +8 con which works almost as well for the build (with my proposed
    build point layout I'll need a +5 tome to 'odd me out' if I get +3 ins. str -
    assuming I'll always have Primal Scream going). I really want to get my armor done
    before I TR. I have all the scales but I've not seen a single PUG for FoT let alone
    CitW so commendations are proving to be the sticking point. Cleaver and Planar
    Conflux would also be sweet and that Avithoul ring is proving to be rarer than
    rocking horse $hit. I've pulled one of those ever. On my Sorc. When it was
    bugged to BtCoA...

    Shiradi Sorc has felt extremely powerful for EE GH, though.
    Yes, I'm going to resist going back to DI and persevere with Shiradi. I just
    need to get down with the playstyle though spamming MM and CM whilst jumping
    in a circle feels kind of dull

  11. #111
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Well, I have +8 con which works almost as well for the build (with my proposed
    build point layout I'll need a +5 tome to 'odd me out' if I get +3 ins. str -
    assuming I'll always have Primal Scream going). I really want to get my armor done
    before I TR. I have all the scales but I've not seen a single PUG for FoT let alone
    CitW so commendations are proving to be the sticking point. Cleaver and Planar
    Conflux would also be sweet and that Avithoul ring is proving to be rarer than
    rocking horse $hit. I've pulled one of those ever. On my Sorc. When it was
    bugged to BtCoA...



    Yes, I'm going to resist going back to DI and persevere with Shiradi. I just
    need to get down with the playstyle though spamming MM and CM whilst jumping
    in a circle feels kind of dull
    Grab Force Missile too...people don't mention it much, but as you don't have to be looking at the enemy to cast it, it's worth the level 4 slot to me.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    What game are you playing? Barbs are almost useless these days and most end game players I know have either shelved theirs or are TR'ing them into something else.
    Hey Viisari, I usually agree with most of your posts, but this is a good example of hyperbole. Barbarians are most definitely not useless on EEs. Granted, you do need to have a divine that will heal. But if you have that, then a Barbarian is a very strong contributor to a group.

    I run a barbarian and he does very well on EEs. Now, I totally agree that the combination of low saves, difficulty of using UMD and lack of self-healing means that they are much less self-sufficient than other melees. But they can most certainly contribute very meaningfully to an EE.

    Having said that, I wouldn't recommend a Barbarian in the current end-game, for the afforementioned reasons. EDs have greatly reduced the dps difference between Barbs and "lower DPS" classes. I myself plan to TR my barbarian into a paladin at some point. And then maybe a Juggernaut
    Ceruleus ~ Nnomad ~ Nnia ~ Nnurgh ~ Cynnical
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by nni View Post
    Hey Viisari, I usually agree with most of your posts, but this is a good example of hyperbole. Barbarians are most definitely not useless on EEs. Granted, you do need to have a divine that will heal. But if you have that, then a Barbarian is a very strong contributor to a group.
    Let's put it this way: barbarians are still indeed very good dps what with being able to get up to 10x crits on certain weapons and they've tons of other goodies as far as damage goes. They also work well for the more traditional grouping idea where there's a healer, something that CC's real good and then a bunch of dps characters. For most content anyway.

    But the thing is, why make a barb that always needs a healer and will still get knocked down by cometfalls and the like when you can make a character that is very close in the dps while being vastly more survivable, versatile and doesn't need a healer. Personally I think barbarians need a little something at the moment, I'm not really sure what that something is but while they're certainly viable in specific kinds of groups I don't think they're particularly good at the moment.

    The fact that I rarely see anyone from Thelanis endgame guilds playing barbs anymore supports my view on this, a few of my guildies (hi heals) who really enjoy playing barbs have also done some venting about these issues.

    Then there's also my personal issue with barbarians. I always build my characters to be as self-sufficient as possible firstly because I enjoy being exactly that and secondly because my guild often shortmans things and doesn't really care what the groups are made of, ie. our groups might consist of characters capable of healing others but don't count on it. So even though it is possible to make a self-sufficient barb it's not a very good class choice for that route.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    Let's put it this way: barbarians are still indeed very good dps what with being able to get up to 10x crits on certain weapons and they've tons of other goodies as far as damage goes. They also work well for the more traditional grouping idea where there's a healer, something that CC's real good and then a bunch of dps characters. For most content anyway.

    But the thing is, why make a barb that always needs a healer and will still get knocked down by cometfalls and the like when you can make a character that is very close in the dps while being vastly more survivable, versatile and doesn't need a healer. Personally I think barbarians need a little something at the moment, I'm not really sure what that something is but while they're certainly viable in specific kinds of groups I don't think they're particularly good at the moment.

    The fact that I rarely see anyone from Thelanis endgame guilds playing barbs anymore supports my view on this, a few of my guildies (hi heals) who really enjoy playing barbs have also done some venting about these issues.

    Then there's also my personal issue with barbarians. I always build my characters to be as self-sufficient as possible firstly because I enjoy being exactly that and secondly because my guild often shortmans things and doesn't really care what the groups are made of, ie. our groups might consist of characters capable of healing others but don't count on it. So even though it is possible to make a self-sufficient barb it's not a very good class choice for that route.
    Completely agree. That was a much more reasonable description of barbarians

    Ok, enough OTing now.
    Ceruleus ~ Nnomad ~ Nnia ~ Nnurgh ~ Cynnical
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  15. #115
    Community Member zichant's Avatar
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    When is the best time to take the first and second level of paladin with this build?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by zichant View Post
    When is the best time to take the first and second level of paladin with this build?
    7/8 or 9/10 would be the most useful times, so you have either level 3 or level 4 spells. Alternatively 13/14 if you want tier 2 prestige and reconstruct asap.
    Ceruleus ~ Nnomad ~ Nnia ~ Nnurgh ~ Cynnical
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by zichant View Post
    When is the best time to take the first and second level of paladin with this build?
    If you have done well leveling a sorc before (past life or other char), I would take them at level 19 and 20.

  18. #118
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    I like to take them at 15 and 16, to get delayed blast fireball quickly but then have high saves of orchard.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  19. #119
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Default What people don't say.

    I've been playing around with Shiradi a lot lately. There's a bit of misinformation on the matter i would like to clarify.

    First of all, if we exclude Meteor Swarm, don't assume that Magic Missile is your best damage spell. I see some people completely forgetting on Sorcerers the Savant nature of the class: Magic Missile is a mid-damage profile spell with extremely efficient ratio of damage/mana. This said do not except it to be superior to your Polar Ray or to your Chain Lightning or your Lightning Bolt: these spells still do higher damage factoring all procs excluding the strange list of the random ones of double rainbow (though considering the 1d100 elemental in the equation). It is probable that spamming for long fights your MM will award you some nice damage over time effects, in which case MM might be stronger than your standard nuking spells, but that is only for some specific situations.

    Secondly, except for force-weak mobs, MM is more or less EQUAL in damage to Force Missiles. The point is that MM has 5 projectiles while FM only 4: if you consider once again all damage procs from Shiradi's (except the strange random ones from Double Rainbow) MM damage is very similar to FM thus making this second spell almost useless because MM has only 1,5 seconds of cooldown.

    Thirdly, do not expect your Meteor Swarm to be the killer as everyone says, unless you paralyze the targets you're hitting first with nerve toxin: MS is strong but since it is save dependant it might have very lousy effects in EE content. I reccomend building around EVO DCs and/or carrying Evocation Augmentation from Magister to make it really effective. It is mana consuming, but for those situation where you need extra power it is perfect.

    Lastly, my personal impression is that Shiradi Sorcerer >= DI Sorcerer from nuking perspective: while DI has some very nice "boom" features, Shiradi can get lucky with random procs and place some interesting damage over time effects that can make it stronger damage wise. Though remember this applies only for a bit longer fights, that means for instant demolishing, the DI breath and burst are still better.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 03-19-2013 at 12:27 PM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    This said do not except it to be superior to your Polar Ray or to your Chain Lightning or your Lightning Bolt: these spells still do higher damage factoring all procs excluding the strange list of the random ones of double rainbow (though considering the 1d100 elemental in the equation).
    Waste of SP and more importantly waste of time. Just getting one spider venom stack will out dps both your polar ray and lightning bolt and getting that thing up is most easily done by spamming magic missile, force missile or chain missile.

    And that ignoring all the other procs you'll get from multiple hits, I'm not exactly sure how you figure that polar ray would be any decent damage and more importantly how is it cost efficient in any way?

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