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  1. #1
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    Default CHA Based CC Spell Singer

    Vanilla build, I know.

    TRing my Melee Virt into a CC SS. Want to make sure I'm not screwing anything simple up.

    A quick look and any pointers are appreciated.


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 262
    Spell Points: 1075 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 16                   16
    Dexterity             8                 10                   10
    Constitution         16                 18                   18
    Intelligence         10                 12                   12
    Wisdom                8                 10                   10
    Charisma             18                 25                   30
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    23
    Bluff                 4                    10
    Concentration         7                    33
    Diplomacy             8                    33
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                8                    33
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate            4                    10
    Jump                  2                    15
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               8                    33
    Repair                0                     1
    Search                0                     1
    Spot                 -1                     0
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                3                    23
    Use Magic Device      8                    37
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Spell (1): Master's Touch
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Spell (1): Otto's Resistible Dance
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Blur
    Spell (2): Hold Person
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (2): Heroism
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Suggestion
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Spell (3): Haste
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Displacement
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Slow
    Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (4): Dimension Door
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
    Spell (5): Greater Heroism
    Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
    Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance
    Spell (6): Greater Shout
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Rage
    Spell (6): Heroes Feast
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Spell (3): Crushing Despair
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (4): Shout
    Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (5): Mind Fog
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
    Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II
    Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration III

  2. #2
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    - extend is really not a particularly great feat. move some other stuff earlier, and eventually fit quicken into your build instead.
    - empower healing is not a popular choice. most prefer maximize because if you're going to be healing, you probably need power more than efficiency. personally, i think it can go either way, and my bard has empower healing for efficiency, but most of the best min/maxers i've seen prefer maximize (probably also because in the event that they do in fact want to deal damage with spells, maximize can actually help here).
    - at-level, i'd pick up soundburst rather than hold person. at cap, i'd probably still go with soundburst over hold person. it's a fortitude save, it hits multiple targets. it's a bit like greater shout, except it has to breach SR unfortunately.
    - at level 7, i'd probably ignore cure serious wounds: just use wands. instead, choose good hope. replace heroism with rage. good hope is still useful at later levels for times in between songs and for dispelling crushing despair, so i'd say keep it.
    - slow is really unimpressive. go with crushing despair.
    - at level 10, you can probably also wand cure critical wounds. still, it's not a bad option... toss-up for keeping it or leaving it for later, really. i'd consider moving another spell earlier, cure critical wounds isn't that much stronger than a wand at this point.
    - at level 13, your greater heroism won't last much longer than a scroll anyways. i'd probably just scroll it. a mass cure option seems more likely to be useful imo. or mind fog for a bit of DC-boosting goodness. consider moving another spell sooner, or temporarily picking up summon monster V (earth elemental can be useful for the next few levels).
    - around this time, or even earlier, i'd ditch cure light wounds for hypnotism. bonus DC is nice.
    - level 19: shout is terrible. even worse for you given the complete lack of anything to boost the damage. it doesn't CC at all. i'd consider either neutralize poison or hold monster instead.

  3. #3
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Since you're TR'ing from a bard, pick up the bard active past life. It gives +1 to enchantment dc's as well as 3 inspire courages (and IC enhancements and stuff work on that too, so it basically just saves you 3 songs) and +1 to all charisma skills. So it beats a spell focus enchantment. (If you have a wizard past life, the active past life feat for it also beats any spell focus feat.) To qualify for spellsinger early, I'll second the above suggestion to take out extend (however you cannot take past life feats at level 1, you will need to move another one of your feats there and then take the bard past life in its place) Alternatively if you take Maximize at level 3 instead of empower healing, that can also qualify you for spellsinger.

  4. #4

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    Some quick thoughts.


    Bluff is pretty useful for pulling targets if you are soloing a fair bit in addition to the dialogue boxes. I see a lot of tumble and don't normally spend the skill points beyond 1 on it.

    Lyric of Song III and Lyric of Incredible Song I are not really worth the points, Extra Song III is expensive for one more song. Bard Spell Penetration III is also pretty costly for +1 spell penetration. If you remove Lyric III and Incredible Lyric I, and Spell Pen III you can add Extra Song IV and MotD, maybe MotM, and some Inspired Damage. If you don't want the mezzing for undead then drop some extra song and lyric for better inspired damage.

    Active PL for wizard and bard are better choices than spell focus if you don't want to try to fit in extra DC feats, and maximize is what I prefer over empower healing. Maximize provides a bigger burst; if I want more efficiency I can skip meta's completely or rely more on scrolls and wands.

    Extend is decent enough at lower levels but hard to justify the cost of a feat slot later on. Quicken can be useful, or the bard past life in addition to the spell focus feats.

    Spells to work towards listed below. I know many players do not like slow but I am not one of them. Slow affects creatures not affected by enchantments (it's a transmutation) and the damage mitigation from it is another stacking layer. Having said that, third level spells are a tight fit for bards.

    Cure Light Wounds isn't a great spell to pick up. Cure Moderate Wounds can carry you through up to the level 10-12ish area without much difficulty. Mass cures is what you need to be more effective at healing so as soon as possible.


    Spell thoughts:

    Level 1

    Master's Touch
    Otto's Resistible Dance
    Hypnotism
    Grease
    Merfolk's Blessing

    honorable mentions: Sonic Blast, Focusing Chant, Expeditious Retreat, Remove Fear


    Level 2

    Rage
    Blur
    Glitterdust
    Daze Monster
    Invisibility

    honorable mentions: Soundburst, Hypnotic Pattern, Cure Moderate Wounds


    Level 3

    Displacement
    Haste
    Cure Serious Wounds
    Crushing Despair
    Deep Slumber

    honorable mentions: Good Hope, Slow, Fear


    Level 4

    Freedom of Movement
    Dimension Door
    Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    Cure Critical Wounds
    Hold Monster


    Level 5

    Mass Cure Light Wounds
    Mass Suggestion
    Mind Fog
    Greater Heroism
    <ANY> -- Greater Dispel Magic, Shadow Walk, Summon Monster V are typical choice. Greater Heroism and Shadow Walk are often just scrolls, and the same can be said for summon spells.


    Level 6

    Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
    Otto's Irresistible Dance
    Mass Charm Monster
    Greater Shout

    honorable mentions: Heroes' Feast
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  5. #5
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    A single spell focus, while not as useful as PL Bard or Wizard, opens up the ED abilities to twist ... one for any school (enchant) and one only for conjuration/evocation (soundburst, greater shout)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    A single spell focus, while not as useful as PL Bard or Wizard, opens up the ED abilities to twist ... one for any school (enchant) and one only for conjuration/evocation (soundburst, greater shout)
    I don't have the ability to twist everything I want, let alone hit the requirements for all of it.

    Good point, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  7. #7
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    I've been out of town, so haven't had a chance to respond yet.

    Thank you all for your input, I will incorporate it into my build once I get around to TRing. (Which should be after moving, oh joy.)

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