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Thread: need advice

  1. #1
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    Default need advice

    me and my friends are making a group one of them want to make an ac tank but I head ac is broken that its not worth it to make an intima tank anymore would an intima tank be good and if so how much ac/intimidate and how far would it work cus im thinking we might just go for just epic hard for a few tr's

  2. #2
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    AC alone is nothing now, get AC and Prr and a bit Dodge for a Tank now.
    dunno about inti numbers
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  3. #3
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    AC is not broken. It was recently revamped. You can build an AC intimitank, but getting a high enough AC at the highest levels to be hit less than 30% of the time w/out using Displacement is tough and very gear intensive. At the heroic levels I have found it is easier to maintain a viable tank without a TON of gear until around level 18. You want to hit at least 80 AC by level 16ish to be consistently effective in heroic elite, and even then some bosses won't have a problem whacking the heck out of you. I read about end game players hitting well into the 100s with extremely high PRR so that is probably what you are ultimately shooting for if you want an 'end game' AC tank.


    A hate tank is another way to go without worrying about getting a ton of great AC gear. For example Paladin's can generate a lot of hate, get good armor bonuses, high hit points, good saves, and good healing amp so that might be one way to go. But a good hate tank will probably want to be able to dish out some decent damage as well, so strict sword and board can be limiting to damage output, so you might want a versatile character who can smack it hard with thf then switch to S&B situationally. I have never built an effective hate tank, but there are some good threads out here about that.


    Hopefully someone can provide some links for you to their builds as the search feature for the forums is less than adequate.

  4. #4
    Community Member hcarr's Avatar
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    If it is what he wants to work for let him. Its his own personal fun. Just encourage him to have a dps option built in.


    With changes to the game the intimitank of the past of sheild blocking and hitting intim is pretty much gone. Hate ac with prr is what I have been seeing used lately.

    It can be usefull if the party decides to let it be. Most full geared pugs its just blow through full speed and everything dieing so fast it isnt usefull.

  5. #5
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    The old to-hit formula: to-hit + d20 vs. AC
    The new to-hit formula: (to-hit + 10.5) / (2 * AC) + 20% if proficient and PC

    Three consequences of this...
    It is almost impossible to achieve the old 95% miss rate.
    It is much easier to achieve a >5% miss rate.
    Flat increases in AC provide much less benefit.

    It is up to you whether these consequences render AC without worth.

    .

    If by "intimitank" you mean block and intim, you will not hold aggro (and will therefore not be a tank), as the cooldown for intimidate is longer than the period of effectiveness. Intimidate is still useful, but you need threat. This is proportional but not necessarily equal to DPS, so with certain PrEs/enhancements/gear, you can make a lower DPS option (such as SnB) work to hold aggro. It is also up to you whether devoting all resources to tanking (at the expense of raw DPS) is worth it when so little content requires or even benefits from tanking.

    .

    It is also worth mentioning that "tank" is not synonymous with "be easier to heal" or even "take less damage". A character can develop significant miss chance (via AC or dodge or ideally both), healing amp, and PRR while still employing a DPS option such as TWF or THF. The changes mentioned above make this very easy, just throwing on a suit of +5 [whichever level-based type] full plate grants a fighter not insignificant defense.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Grr, Firefox crash ate my reply. So the short recap: have a look at my Sentinel Squire thread and this dwarven build for examples of 28-pt S&B tanks which are newbie-friendly (I think).

  7. #7

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    It's hard to think of instances where a tank would be useful at all to a static group.

    Maybe the boss fight in Stormcleave Outpost? Maybe?

    The end fight of Stealer of Souls is a safe bet, though tanking certainly isn't required.


    In every other situation, pretty much any other build will be far more useful than a tank. If he wants that tank "feel," just pick a dps build that includes intimidate and let him spam it all over the mobs.

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Does one need a tank for most content? No. But I think a lot of folks underestimate the value of a good tank - by which I mean "highly survivable aggro magnet that can also put out decent DPS" - particularly to those still learning how to play. [And by "survivable" I don't just mean "big ugly sack o' HPs." ] It's also good practice for a static group that wants to learn how to deal with different types of situations as a team. Better to learn how to play effectively (inc. when & how to tank) in the lower-level content than to wait until you get to where it becomes much harder and you have to break your "bad habits," IMHO. I am by no means DDO's best tanker; but even with modestly geared tanks I've helped - shall we say "marginal" - PUGs finish quests that might otherwise have been a wipe.

    Plus the doublestrike bonuses from the Shield Mastery feats help close the DPS gap with 2H builds, to the point that "S&B DPS tank" is no longer quite the oxymoron it once was. The dwarven build I linked before is really just a F2P take on the Axehead.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 12-28-2012 at 03:03 PM.

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