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  1. #1
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    Default D-axe Dwarf Pure Artificer - is it doable?

    While walking around today and thinking about what to do (since my giant plant of playing as a tank got destroyed) I got hit... no, not by a baseball but by an idea. D-axe Dwarf Artificer that runs around in melee. Is it workable/doable?

    Would D-axe produce glancing blows if RuneArm was equipped?
    Would I need to pick D-axe profficienty separetly (since Arti starts with 0 BAB and no martial weapon prof, so no D-axe prof)?
    Would there be enough feats to be taken (full THF and weapon improvemenets + power attack/cleave mby?)?
    And wouldn't he just.... die, while running around trying to kill stuff...

    If yes, can someone help me with some build of a kind?
    (28 points would be awesome, since I'm just starting this game -> yeah, a newbie shouldn't do stuff as crazy as this, but.... you life once )

    Cheers and thanks

  2. #2
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Yes it's doable.

    But since you admit to being brand new to the game, I would suggest starting with a repeater Xbow arty first and learn the strengths and weakness of the class.

    But if not, good luck and have fun.
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  3. #3
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    As a pure, you'd be very hard pressed to make it work well. Esp as a 28 point build.

    However, as most melee who can use a bow like to do is to whip out the bow for many shot, I pondered if I could do the same only with an arti.

    The concept I came up with is very similar to your own.

    12 bard / 6 arti / 2 rogue.

    Get the right gear, you'll be cleaving, trap smithing, evading, etc.
    You do not need 20 levels of arti to use a rune arm to its fullest. That is based on character levels.

    12 bard for warchanter
    6 arti for the battle ranged pre they have for endless fussalodge.

    This also allows you better self healing as a fleshy via bard and UMD, while still giving you lots of skill points to handle the trap smith cost.

    You probably won't have the feats needed for all cleaving and THF, but given the AC changes, cleaving will give you better damage for those groups. Assuming you want to be the mob focus in groups or you are soloing. If you are grouping a whole lot worry less about cleaves and go THF I guess so you don't get all the agro.

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    Community Member MnaSidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Get the right gear, you'll be cleaving, trap smithing, evading, etc.
    You do not need 20 levels of arti to use a rune arm to its fullest. That is based on character levels.
    Um did they change that?

    For example: http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Pea_Shooter

    Damage per charge Tier is + 1 - x per Artificer level.
    Don't forget the enhancements, that only higher level artificers get... they do more damage too!
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  5. #5
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnaSidhe View Post
    Um did they change that?
    For example: http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Pea_Shooter
    Damage per charge Tier is + 1 - x per Artificer level.
    Don't forget the enhancements, that only higher level artificers get... they do more damage too!
    To get full shots out of the rune arm, it is based out of the character level. My wife's bard (has 2 levels of arti) and gets full charge shots out of them. (yes, all 5 out of a T5)

    But you are correct about the enhancements.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    To get full shots out of the rune arm, it is based out of the character level. My wife's bard (has 2 levels of arti) and gets full charge shots out of them. (yes, all 5 out of a T5)

    But you are correct about the enhancements.
    Is the DC on runearms not based on arti levels?

    As for specific builds there probably are some in the thread for specialist classes. Wax on wax off has one of those B-sword using arti builds there, and its pretty much the same thing.

  7. #7
    Community Member MnaSidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    To get full shots out of the rune arm, it is based out of the character level. My wife's bard (has 2 levels of arti) and gets full charge shots out of them. (yes, all 5 out of a T5)
    But isnt the damage much less? If a rune arm does 8-30 + 1-10 / arti level... then with 2 levels you are doing 10 - 50... and with 20 arti levels 28 - 230.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Jacoby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    As a pure, you'd be very hard pressed to make it work well. Esp as a 28 point build.

    However, as most melee who can use a bow like to do is to whip out the bow for many shot, I pondered if I could do the same only with an arti.

    The concept I came up with is very similar to your own.

    12 bard / 6 arti / 2 rogue.

    Get the right gear, you'll be cleaving, trap smithing, evading, etc.
    You do not need 20 levels of arti to use a rune arm to its fullest. That is based on character levels.

    12 bard for warchanter
    6 arti for the battle ranged pre they have for endless fussalodge.

    This also allows you better self healing as a fleshy via bard and UMD, while still giving you lots of skill points to handle the trap smith cost.

    You probably won't have the feats needed for all cleaving and THF, but given the AC changes, cleaving will give you better damage for those groups. Assuming you want to be the mob focus in groups or you are soloing. If you are grouping a whole lot worry less about cleaves and go THF I guess so you don't get all the agro.
    Forget the 2 Rogue, that's an old concept basd on saves that were relevant in the game then. Trap saves on anything but normal are tough now for someone with a dex based build and improved evasion, it's just not worth the sacrifice now.

    14 Bard gives you an extra point of damage on your songs which has more value to me personally and the 6 Arti is plently for spreading points around. I've played around with this build and it's nice.
    Last edited by Jacoby; 12-26-2012 at 05:34 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    Is the DC on runearms not based on arti levels?

    As for specific builds there probably are some in the thread for specialist classes. Wax on wax off has one of those B-sword using arti builds there, and its pretty much the same thing.
    DC is not based on arti lvls. DC=11+charge tier+int mod+(possibly evocation feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by MnaSidhe View Post
    But isnt the damage much less? If a rune arm does 8-30 + 1-10 / arti level... then with 2 levels you are doing 10 - 50... and with 20 arti levels 28 - 230.
    yes
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  10. #10
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Book_O_Dragons View Post
    yes
    But as yet my wife's bard arti can still do 200 pt per shot damages fully charged. I know what is stated, and I've seen what she does. It is quite possible that potency and other direct elemental damage enhancements are making that much up for it. Or somewhere along the line things got messed up and they are what they are. You decide.

  11. #11
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    But as yet my wife's bard arti can still do 200 pt per shot damages fully charged. I know what is stated, and I've seen what she does. It is quite possible that potency and other direct elemental damage enhancements are making that much up for it. Or somewhere along the line things got messed up and they are what they are. You decide.
    200 per shot as in you shoot 5 times and each does 200 damage, or 200 per shot as in you charge it to full and it deals 200 damage?

    the former would be about 2/3 what i expect on my artificer if i exclude crits. the latter would be what i expect for someone with a couple of artificer levels.

  12. #12
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    200 per shot as in you shoot 5 times and each does 200 damage, or 200 per shot as in you charge it to full and it deals 200 damage?
    Depending on the rune arm she's using, I've seen her do (the full range now) 100-200 x5 for the five shot spreaders.

    Single blast shots, I've have to go watch again. Those I don't know off the top of my head.

  13. #13
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Does Master's Touch give Dwarven Axe proficiency to a Dwarf?

    If so, you could totally make a good Dwarven Axe build.

    I have seen a nice Bastard Sword build running around on these forums.
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  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    Would D-axe produce glancing blows if RuneArm was equipped?
    Yes.
    Would I need to pick D-axe profficienty separetly (since Arti starts with 0 BAB and no martial weapon prof, so no D-axe prof)?
    No: as a dwarf, you can just cast Master's Touch on yourself. You could even use MT scrolls to do it if you don't want to give up a spell slot for it.
    Would there be enough feats to be taken (full THF and weapon improvemenets + power attack/cleave mby?)?
    Here's where it gets...tricky. You'd have 14 feats total - 7 base + 5 arty + 2 epic - but melee feats aren't arty feats. Still, it's not impossible: Toughness, THF x3, Power Atk, IC:Slash, Cleave/GC/Overwhelming Crit, with the arty feats going towards metamagics would work (in theory).
    (28 points would be awesome, since I'm just starting this game -> yeah, a newbie shouldn't do stuff as crazy as this, but.... you life once )
    Wow, you really do like a challenge, don't you?

    Frankly, you'd have an easier time making a classic tank (which I posted to your other thread) than a melee artificer. But if you really wanna give it a go...

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Wow, you really do like a challenge, don't you?

    Frankly, you'd have an easier time making a classic tank (which I posted to your other thread) than a melee artificer. But if you really wanna give it a go...
    Yeah, that's me, challenge is something I love



    @Artos_Fabril

    By saying it's not optimal we mean the fact that it will: do much less damage than an average Xbow Art?/do much less damage than any other class?/will be much worse in other contexts?




    I was thinking about splashing to make it look optimal. Idk, barb or fighter?

    Sorry I'm so dumb trying to make it work, it just stays in my head, that a melee wielder with an D-axe/B-sword that deals additional damage around with magic possibilities and a RuneArm to add to looks fun and great. And being able to buff myself with every spell in the game makes it sound even better.

    I'm playing an Reap xBow Arti, but till now (low levels though so not much of a experience) it looks kind of boring... I just press attack and kill everything around while maintaining all the buffs required. But maybe later on, levels 9+ it will get more interesting?

  16. #16
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    I'm playing an Reap xBow Arti, but till now (low levels though so not much of a experience) it looks kind of boring... I just press attack and kill everything around while maintaining all the buffs required. But maybe later on, levels 9+ it will get more interesting?
    Just curious - how will your new build be any different? Press attack and use D-Axe instead of press attack and use repeater xbow?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
    Just curious - how will your new build be any different? Press attack and use D-Axe instead of press attack and use repeater xbow?
    While using a xBow I'm far far away from the fight, with a D-axe I need to perma run around to target stuff

  18. #18
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    While using a xBow I'm far far away from the fight, with a D-axe I need to perma run around to target stuff
    All righty then....

  19. #19
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    While walking around today and thinking about what to do (since my giant plant of playing as a tank got destroyed) I got hit... no, not by a baseball but by an idea. D-axe Dwarf Artificer that runs around in melee. Is it workable/doable?
    Doable? Yes. Optimal? Not even close. Soloable to 20? Sure, but probably not on an elite streak, unless you spend heavily on resources or are substantially better and more-knowledgeable a player than even the average forumite. *

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    Would D-axe produce glancing blows if RuneArm was equipped?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    Would I need to pick D-axe profficienty separetly (since Arti starts with 0 BAB and no martial weapon prof, so no D-axe prof)?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    Would there be enough feats to be taken (full THF and weapon improvemenets + power attack/cleave mby?)?
    Yes, barely. THF, Toughness, PA, ITHF, IC:Slash, GTHF, Cleave, GCleave, OC. +Quicken, Maximize, Empower, SF: Evocation
    You'll actually skip EWPAxe, and use Master's Touch for them. nothing but your metamagics is on the bonus feat list and you're hitting 9 feats right there. Starting off as a Human with the bonus feat for either DAxe or BS would also work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    And wouldn't he just.... die, while running around trying to kill stuff...
    That would be largely a function of your own skill with the character, with a non-negligible impact from gear and the ammount of consumables you're willing to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    If yes, can someone help me with some build of a kind?
    (28 points would be awesome, since I'm just starting this game -> yeah, a newbie shouldn't do stuff as crazy as this, but.... you life once )

    Cheers and thanks
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
    (20 Artificer) 
    Hit Points: 242
    Spell Points: 1128 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 5
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    17
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         15                    16
    Intelligence         17                    24
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               0                    15
    Bluff                -2                    -1
    Concentration         6                    27
    Diplomacy            -2                    -1
    Disable Device        7                    31
    Haggle               -2                    17
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate           -2                    -1
    Jump                  3                     4
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock             3                    23
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                     8
    Search                7                    33
    Spot                  3                    23
    Swim                  3                     4
    Tumble                0                     2
    Use Magic Device      2                    26
    
    Level 1 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 3 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Augment Summoning
    
    
    Level 5 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 6 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 9 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 15 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 17 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Empower Spell
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Artificer Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Artificer Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use I
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use II
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use III
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use IV
    Enhancement: Artificer Rune Arm Overcharge I
    Enhancement: Artificer Rune Arm Overcharge II
    Enhancement: Arcane Empowerment
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device II
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device III
    Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device IV
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting VI
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics III
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence II
    Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence III
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

  20. #20
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    My build concept is a little different from Artos's; I didn't want to completely give up using a repeater, despite dump-stating DEX, since you have to take some xbow enhs to get Battle Engineer anyway and Endless Fusilade only works with xbows. You can use Insightful Strikes to use INT instead of DEX for ranged to-hit; you won't have the ranged DPS of a dedicated ranged arty, but you'll still be able to put some hurt on distant targets before you go all hack-n-slash on them.

    [WARNING: pure theory-crafting in progress; have not yet played a melee arty myself. ]
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
    (20 Artificer) 
    Hit Points: 292
    Spell Points: 1157 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 11
    Reflex: 5
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    17
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         18                    20
    Intelligence         16                    26
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 14
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
    
    Level 1 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 3 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Construct Essence (swap for Point Blank Shot later)
    
    
    Level 5 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 6 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 9 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 15 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 17 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Empower Spell (or Precise Shot)
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack I
    Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage I
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use I
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use II
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use III
    Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use IV
    Enhancement: Artificer Battle Engineer I
    Enhancement: Artificer Rune Arm Overcharge I
    Enhancement: Artificer Rune Arm Overcharge II
    Enhancement: Arcane Empowerment
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting VI
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics III
    Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics IV
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence II
    Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence III
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    Epic feats: Great Cleave and another meta or ranged feat (if you want Overwhelming Crit, you will have to go STR- rather than INT-based and that will hurt your DCs)

    Construct Essence gives you some self-repairability early on; later your UMD will be high enough that you can use Cure wands & eventually Heal scrolls, so you should be able to swap it for something else (I chose PBS). At lvl 20, take Empower if you want to focus on caster DPS, Precise Shot if you want to boost single-target ranged DPS w/Archer's Focus stance.

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