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Thread: The Mad lute

  1. #1
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    Default The Mad lute

    With the recent addition of the moonhowl axe i think this item deserves a revamp. First off this should really have the option for cha for hit/damage or str. I mean if any weapons should have cha attack stats this lute should. Next I think if this item went as far as having metaline it should also have goten aligned.....really otherwise metaline doesnt do a whole hell of a lot.
    With the spell power change i think 72 is a bit of an overlooked number for a level 18 item, this should atlest be 84 or 90 for the level on a named item.
    In the flavor of the bard weapon i think cloud burst or shrieking should be added if not both.
    I realize at this point this would be an extremely good item but I think that is ok seeing as it is a bard only item, obviously not game breaking merely filling a niche.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkot View Post
    With the recent addition of the moonhowl axe i think this item deserves a revamp. First off this should really have the option for cha for hit/damage or str. I mean if any weapons should have cha attack stats this lute should. Next I think if this item went as far as having metaline it should also have goten aligned.....really otherwise metaline doesnt do a whole hell of a lot.
    With the spell power change i think 72 is a bit of an overlooked number for a level 18 item, this should atlest be 84 or 90 for the level on a named item.
    In the flavor of the bard weapon i think cloud burst or shrieking should be added if not both.
    I realize at this point this would be an extremely good item but I think that is ok seeing as it is a bard only item, obviously not game breaking merely filling a niche.
    they could just tweak it to have upgrade possibilities like the rings from amrath.

  3. #3
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    Thats actually a really good idea, just giving in incredible potential would improve it alot.
    I think it would still need bonus for its spell power and add cha for to hit/damage .
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    A couple of points, 90 spell power is the max for items level 20 and below, so asking for a 90 spell power on an item that is sub level 20 and has other desirable properties is a bit much. Second, metalline on its own is still quite a powerful effect, as it bypasses half of the DR types in the game. Adding aligned to the item, along with other desirable properties (90 spell power, cloud burst, etc.) would be too much in my opinion. Just for clarification, the total effects you ask for in your post would amount to the following:

    + 5 enhancement bonus
    str/cha to hit/dmg
    spell casting implement +15
    metalline
    aligned (added)
    thunderclap (stun, knockdown, disorient on vorpal)
    resonance +90 (up from 72)
    greater spell pen 6
    major sonic lore
    cloud burst (added) (9% on hit, ~50 electric, ~100 sonic damage)
    shrieking (added) (2d6 sonic damage per hit)
    great club proficiency

    Sure, all of that sounds absolutely fantastic on a weapon, but look at all the problems that the eSoS have caused since it was added. The biggest problem with the weapon is that it tries to do too much, with a few melee affixes and a few casting affixes, instead of just being focus on one or the other. In all fairness, if your suggested changes were made to the weapon, it would become THE bard weapon, and any bard that wanted to use something else would be gimped by comparison.

    /not signed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    A couple of points, 90 spell power is the max for items level 20 and below, so asking for a 90 spell power on an item that is sub level 20 and has other desirable properties is a bit much. Second, metalline on its own is still quite a powerful effect, as it bypasses half of the DR types in the game. Adding aligned to the item, along with other desirable properties (90 spell power, cloud burst, etc.) would be too much in my opinion. Just for clarification, the total effects you ask for in your post would amount to the following:

    + 5 enhancement bonus
    str/cha to hit/dmg
    spell casting implement +15
    metalline
    aligned (added)
    thunderclap (stun, knockdown, disorient on vorpal)
    resonance +90 (up from 72)
    greater spell pen 6
    major sonic lore
    cloud burst (added) (9% on hit, ~50 electric, ~100 sonic damage)
    shrieking (added) (2d6 sonic damage per hit)
    great club proficiency

    Sure, all of that sounds absolutely fantastic on a weapon, but look at all the problems that the eSoS have caused since it was added. The biggest problem with the weapon is that it tries to do too much, with a few melee affixes and a few casting affixes, instead of just being focus on one or the other. In all fairness, if your suggested changes were made to the weapon, it would become THE bard weapon, and any bard that wanted to use something else would be gimped by comparison.

    /not signed.


    I did mention that all together that would be a largely strong bard weapon. But i think that this is better to be looked at in comparison, this is neither the best melee dps bard weapon or best caster item. Most people will want a esos for dps or in the caster area it would be some other mixture of high spell power items and DC/spell pen items.

    I think that instead of adding cloudburst/shrieking a solid idea would be to add incredible potential to the lute. This way people could upgrade this to holy burst or one of the other options.

    As far as spell power goes this weapon is at least under its random gen friends. level 18 is 84 spell power, this being named i think that 90 isn't much to ask for. Given there are other much higher lvl to spell power named items. IE: iron beads lvl11 72lit spell power.
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    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    Sure, all of that sounds absolutely fantastic on a weapon, but look at all the problems that the eSoS have caused since it was added. The biggest problem with the weapon is that it tries to do too much, with a few melee affixes and a few casting affixes, instead of just being focus on one or the other. In all fairness, if your suggested changes were made to the weapon, it would become THE bard weapon, and any bard that wanted to use something else would be gimped by comparison.

    /not signed.
    no, not really.

    the truth of the matter is that:

    1) very few bards are built in such a way that they actually care about both melee and spellcasting. it's already quite difficult to make a bard that does either of those things very well, making one that does both very well borders on the impossible.

    2) it would get ditched for random lootgen stuff in epic levels. spellcaster bards would ditch it in a heartbeat for a couple of decent caster sticks, and melee bards wouldn't even wait for that heartbeat before they ditch it for something that actually has good DPS mods on it. and also something which actually isn't a greatclub, which is the light hammer of the THF weapons (that is, it has nothing whatsoever that makes it valuable). DR-breaking is convenient, but it really isn't a *powerful* ability in and of itself. people have been ignoring min IIs for quite a while now since more specialized options that deal more damage became readily available... for much the same reason, people will ignore the mad lute, even if it is made aligned as well.

    3) the one kind of spellpower that all bards care about (positive) is nowhere to be found on it.

    4) there are other very clear winners right now that make this thing not the best weapon for bards, even if upgraded as proposed. for example, if you were to add everything on that list, i'd still prefer the epic elyd edge. and i could then chuck something else awesome into the other hand.

    do i think it needs the upgrades described? well, i might actually consider equipping it as something other than a joke on my bard, i suppose. i still don't think i'd use it as my main choice. way too many other nice options out there.

  7. #7
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    Just wait until Epic Devils of Shavarath is available. Then you can have an Epic Kabonger and they can have Epic Renard's Hat also provide a black mask and get a set bonus. Also may want to add a cloak to complete the ensemble.

  8. #8

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    Right now it's an all-around poor weapon. I have one just to collect it and I'll wander around with it but it's not exactly valuable.

    Changing the attack and damage bonus to CHA would be a big step in the right direction to give it some use. I would also say remove the +3 spell penetration and add sonic blast on crits centered on the person critted with a 25 DC. That seems more like a weapon for a sonic casting bard.

    An upgrade option to an epic version that is 19-20/*3, 2[2d8], +3 EVOCATION DC's, 120 resonance, +12% crit on sonic spells, upgrade the DC on the sonic blast to 32. Possibly a red augment slot. Then give it a low ML for being unique to bards with those abilities at ML21.

    That still wouldn't be the best weapon without devotion but it would open up a possible melee option for bards who do choose to work on sonic spells.

    As far as a high level bard weapon, it currently leaves much to be desired. With work it could be a niche weapon.

    EDIT: Also resonance 90 with major sonic lore is available at level 16 with a blasting chime. Adding that for the level 18 mad lute doesn't seem unreasonable and I would consider adding anthem at that level as an option as well.
    Last edited by Aashrym; 12-27-2012 at 02:14 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Some good suggestions here, it really is a pretty awful weapon as is which is a shame. Cha for attack & damage would be my first choice as well, adding some of the new sonic pre/suffixes such as cloudburst etc would also be nice.

    Then since I think the name really beckons it I'd like if the "Trace of madness" effect was added (even though other weapons don't get it), it could even be pre-made with melodic guard simply because it would fit, but giving it the potential to be a weapon with some nice save boosts, arcane lore etc. would probably make it more interesting for multiple builds.
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    I'll state right off that I don't play a bard, so I don't know how good or bad the Mad Lute actually is.

    On the surface (and as a non-bard), this item seems decent enough, if flawed, to my uneducated eye. I see two flaws with the item right off. First, the item needs both STR and CHA Attack/Damage Mods on it. The second thing the item needs is Anthem.

    The Greatclub Proficiency and Metalline, along with the suggested CHA mods, would allow Bards to join in some of the trash beatdowns. As I said, I don't know how well this weapon works, so maybe Thunderclap stinks and has a real low procc, but on the surface appears to be a nice ability.

    On the Spellcasting side, it seems fine to me. (Again, this from the untrained eye.) Major Sonic Lore and +3 Spell Pen for all Bard spells seem like good effects. Also 87 Spell Power for Resonance on an item seems fine. Sure, new random epic items might have better stuff on it, but that's pretty much true about alot of pre-MOTU items. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that this item is better than most ToD sets before MOTU was released.

    With that said, I completely agree that adding CHA mods and Anthem are needed on this item.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    On the Spellcasting side, it seems fine to me. (Again, this from the untrained eye.) Major Sonic Lore and +3 Spell Pen for all Bard spells seem like good effects. Also 87 Spell Power for Resonance on an item seems fine. Sure, new random epic items might have better stuff on it, but that's pretty much true about alot of pre-MOTU items.
    Tier 2 blasting chime at level 16 offers better resonance 2 levels earlier, plus it's +2 to evocation DC's and cacophonic guard (anthem is bugged on it). The mad lute is more like a hodge-podge of mismatched effects. +3 spell penetration is the best thing on it.

    Metalline isn't a bad quality but it's on a poor weapon choice in the first place as a great club with a poor crit profile and no bonus damage effects. Unfortunately, metalline doesn't even qualify it as a good DR breaker without righteous, holy, pure good, aligned, or whatnot.

    Thunderclap is an on-vorpal effect. Most bards fighting something it can be used on already have the target dancing even if they are not caster bards by level 18.

    Resonance and sonic lore, plus spell penetration make this look like a caster bard weapon but the caster part is limited with a weaker sonic bonus than a bard can much more easily acquire at earlier levels. Sonic spells are more a side line for casting in DDO as a subpar alternative to CC and weapon damage, and only affects 4 spells in the entire game, 3 of which have virtually no damage to start with and the 4th does the damage of standard 3rd level spells.

    What we have is a poor melee weapon with poor caster options aside from spell penetration. The spell penetration can be found elsewhere instead of tying up either a thaumaturgy staff slot or 2 caster sticks. Upgrading it to CHA based attack/damage, 90 resonance, and anthem still doesn't cut it and has nothing to do with epic weapons. That's why peals of thunder, cloudburst, or something as simple as a free sonic blast proc on crits would be reasonable. It's worse than non-epic items of lower level.
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  12. #12

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    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.
    Not changing the gear people are actually using because it's already good sounds like a plan

    There is a lot of named junk out there that was garbage when the level cap was 10 and a lot more stuff that was marginal but still useful back then. Hopefully this means that some of those ancient chain end rewards will get a bit more interesting. Bottle of Slumberdust anyone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.
    Thanks for the info!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.
    I love you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.
    Cool! Looking forward to the changes, Glad i did not huck my madloot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.
    Awesome news!

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine
    And Titan for U18? Please?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.
    Supercalifragiluouswooty!

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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Mad Lute gets a revamp in Update 17, along with a couple hundred of other named items from Module 9 and previous updates to the game.

    The only raid with items that will be changed is Tempest's Spine, so don't feel like you need to stop playing raids until then. Some specific favorites that we felt people would be sensitive to changing are also not being altered- Carnifex, Docent of Defiance, Spell Storing Ring, Planar Gird, and similar.

    Expect more details in a few weeks. Merry Chrismahannukwanzisolstifestivus.
    Awesome news - good loot remain the same while other lackluster stuff gets a new shiny. Looking forward to it.

  20. #20
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    kinda confusing for my intellect feather would you mind restating that in simpler terms ?

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