Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36
  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I really don't understand why people bother to post 'advice' like this that completely disregards or contradicts the question asked by the OP. It's essentially as worthless as going into a "how do I build a good cleric" thread and posting "just play a favored soul."

    Because that's the most efficient thing to do. There is no reason to build a tank for level 4 when even toughtest enemies take less than 20 hits to kill.

  2. #22
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    7,099

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    I give the advice I wish I was given when I was a new player. I had a fighter that used tower shields at level 4. It was a mistake, I learned from it, now I pass that learning on.

    That's like saying 'don't build a druid, just build a sorcerer' is good advice because that is the advice you wish you had when you built your first druid because you discovered you don't like playing druids later on.


    Your play style may be nothing like his play style so advice which is essentially reads 'don't do that, do this instead' without context is practically worthless. "Don't do that, do this instead" is not good advice without further explanation. If you sincerely want to give him useful advice, you should flesh out your post a bit and explain WHY you think he should do the exact opposite of how he intends to build and play his character.

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Thanks for all the advice given.

    As for some concerns: Yeah I know it's better to play a fighter with a greataxe from the beginning, but I won't learn how to tank in this game (even if I'm playing with a hireling) if I wont start it early (experience in games like WoW tells me, that even though it is easy to tank early lvl stuff, it helps in getting the basic mechanics of the game - for example, thanks to the early tanking stuff I managed to understand how does intimidate work, which is quite different from how.... taunts work in WoW). And from what I see now, my dps is more or less similar with a D-axe and shield and a Great Axe (maybe the difference will is to small for me to notice, or in 2-3 lvls the difference will increase).

    I play a tank, because I like to play tanks, that's why I'm not dps.

    Thanks for the advice about what to craft etc, as someone said, even though I will not craft it myself (crafting level too low) I can try searching it on the AH or at least try to craft the most important shards myself). The advice given by Daemoneyes was very useful to me, thanks a lot.

    And Merry Christmas

  4. #24
    Community Member nivarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    Thanks for all the advice given.

    As for some concerns: Yeah I know it's better to play a fighter with a greataxe from the beginning, but I won't learn how to tank in this game (even if I'm playing with a hireling) if I wont start it early (experience in games like WoW tells me, that even though it is easy to tank early lvl stuff, it helps in getting the basic mechanics of the game - for example, thanks to the early tanking stuff I managed to understand how does intimidate work, which is quite different from how.... taunts work in WoW). And from what I see now, my dps is more or less similar with a D-axe and shield and a Great Axe (maybe the difference will is to small for me to notice, or in 2-3 lvls the difference will increase).

    I play a tank, because I like to play tanks, that's why I'm not dps.

    Thanks for the advice about what to craft etc, as someone said, even though I will not craft it myself (crafting level too low) I can try searching it on the AH or at least try to craft the most important shards myself). The advice given by Daemoneyes was very useful to me, thanks a lot.

    And Merry Christmas
    If I may, tanking in DDO is nothing like in WoW.
    There is no need of a tank for 99.9% of the content. Tower of Despair and Lord of blade are the 2 raids in which tanks are needed the most, but they don't require very dedicated builds anymore (well EE LoB do, but is not worth running except for the achievement). Normal quests don't require a tank, and most a of the time a tank will just slow down the group.

    By trying to tank at low level you'll only become frustrated of being a deadweight, and won't learn anything (there is not much to learn) you'd learn more by being a DPS and understanding how the game is actually played...

    I'm not sayig don't play a tank, you can if you want

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
    I was wondering what trinkets can be used for crafting. As I understand it, named items cannot be made craftable, but all trinkets I have seen seem to be named. I know I am mistaken about this, so any examples of trinkets I can use for crafting would be appreciated.
    Well, the ice games are coming back in a week or two. You get craftable trinkets from blue coin turn-in. The trinkets are (sadly) BTC but the blue coins are unbound, so just turn in coins until you get a trinket then pass the remaining coins to another alt who still needs a trinket. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Basically, during the ice games craftable trinkets fall from the sky.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nivarch View Post
    If I may, tanking in DDO is nothing like in WoW.
    There is no need of a tank for 99.9% of the content. Tower of Despair and Lord of blade are the 2 raids in which tanks are needed the most, but they don't require very dedicated builds anymore (well EE LoB do, but is not worth running except for the achievement). Normal quests don't require a tank, and most a of the time a tank will just slow down the group.

    By trying to tank at low level you'll only become frustrated of being a deadweight, and won't learn anything (there is not much to learn) you'd learn more by being a DPS and understanding how the game is actually played...

    I'm not sayig don't play a tank, you can if you want
    And now you made me like: 'lolwut? whyyy'

    Sooo.... if required tanking does not exist here... the quest members are just healers and dps? Isn't it like: a boss comes and he 2-3 hits a healer/dpser and a tank is somewhat needed for keeping the boss away from other players?

    Then my.... whole world view just collapsed...

  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I absolutely disagree that one million plat is an 'easy' goal for a first life character. I know folks who still don't have that much plat after a couple of years and multiple lives because they don't farm gear to sell, they play the game for fun and sell whatever they don't happen to need.


    I don't think level 80 is an 'easy' goal for a first life character. Not at all. Most players I've seen who put in the effort to craft give up sometime after L35 when the amount of essences required to craft become much larger. I see a lot of folks give up around 50. The only players I've ever seen get very far with crafting who weren't sitting on millions of plat or made liberal use of early crafting loopholes were the ones who are really dedicated to crafting and put in a lot of effort crunching gear every time their backpack fills up with junk.

    I think 35-40 is a more realistic goal for a first life character and someone who is new to DDO. And by the time he hits 35-40 he will have found better items than he can craft (for the most part).


    Code:
    It's certainly worth pursuing on a first-ever character, and you need not be a WarForged Artificer to end up with useful crafting levels, but if the expectation is that you'll be able to craft all the best-in-slot items your first time around, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
    I can just disagree with you and you should maybe consider giving those people advice instead of saying they cant do it.
    A friend of mine started playing here and i teached him what sells what to safe and so on and he is with his first life cleric on a good way to his first million.
    And that without even farming a single instance.
    Farming Shroud for a month would put him way above 2mio in just no time.
    He didnt do a single raid because he doesnt feel safe with it but i am sure he would be ok with normal/hard runs and will try to introduce him in the next time, to either get his first greensteel or make money anyway it will be fun for us.

    btw i gain about 100k per day from ah alone without farming a single instance and all it takes is 15min per day at most.
    So the money is right there waiting for you, you just have to take it.
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
    Glitzakram - Trade Thread

  8. #28
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,104

    Default

    @OP
    well i should have said sooner but tank sucks in ddo if you dont play permadeath.
    If you come from warhammer you will find that tank even more sucks then in wow. (no guard.. epic fail if you ask me)
    Almost nothing where a tank is needed and if you play a faster style damage is king.
    All that said, if you enjoy coordinated playing and have a fix group it can be a lot of fun. But without that its useless at best.
    Still do what you want and try to teach the groups a slower but coordinated playstyle if you go with it.
    more then anything enjoy your stay here

    and if you are on argo pm one of my chars, ill give you a startup.
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
    Glitzakram - Trade Thread

  9. #29
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    7,099

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    I can just disagree with you and you should maybe consider giving those people advice instead of saying they cant do it.
    A friend of mine started playing here and i teached him what sells what to safe and so on and he is with his first life cleric on a good way to his first million.
    And that without even farming a single instance.
    Farming Shroud for a month would put him way above 2mio in just no time.
    He didnt do a single raid because he doesnt feel safe with it but i am sure he would be ok with normal/hard runs and will try to introduce him in the next time, to either get his first greensteel or make money anyway it will be fun for us.

    btw i gain about 100k per day from ah alone without farming a single instance and all it takes is 15min per day at most.
    So the money is right there waiting for you, you just have to take it.
    I don't disagree that it can be done, I did it. But I also put a lot of time into it. Where I disagree with you is that it can be done easily for a new player. Obviously 'easily' is subjective, but I have seen a lot of people give up on crafting because it does take dedication. The earning plat thing is easier if people don't waste their plat and hoard it, but most new players spend large amounts of plat on the most ridiculous things. {That ML 9 +3 wisdom hat with +5 to listening was a steal at 3000!)

    I didn't say the OP shouldn't do it, I suggested the OP should lower his goals to be a bit more attainable unless he wants to spend hours crunching loot and crafting junk shards that will have to be re-crunched.

    I compare it to people who tell first time players that it is 'easy' to get to cap. Actually it isn't easy for most new players to cap, especially if they solo or try to PUG a lot. There is a lot of discovery time spent just trying to figure out where to go and where things are.

    To be fair you did give him specific advice, which, if he follows it, will make it a lot easier for him.
    Last edited by Postumus; 12-25-2012 at 04:14 AM.

  10. #30
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    7,099

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whesper View Post
    Because that's the most efficient thing to do. There is no reason to build a tank for level 4 when even toughtest enemies take less than 20 hits to kill.
    You're confusing efficiency with fun. Some people play a certain way to have fun, not to be efficient. Some do both.

    Telling a wizard to run around with a greataxe is more 'efficient' for experienced players, but it might not be fun for the new player at all, and the new player won't have learned to use his spells, which spells work best for his plays style, or mana conservation.

    If the OP is set on playing a 'tank' he may as well start learning DDO tank mechanics (and their limitations) at L4 where the errors aren't deadly vs waiting for LoB.

    Daemoneyes had good advice about him getting into a regular group where tactics beyond 'faceroll' are generally better received.

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    279

    Default

    Ok, my bad. I might have said something else than I meant to. Or maybe I didn't comprehend the OP correctly. If his intention was to make a permanent sword and board character, then my post was derailing. I meant that in quite often going with more offense is also a better defense strategy. In my mind, 'a tank' is a character who's controlling monsters, most usually by having their aggro, and good defenses so that he could save party's resources and enable a controlled takedown of the opposing force. Sometimes that means grabbing a two handed weapon and going to town. E.g. I see plenty of people on EH Devil's assault with their SnB throughout the whole quest while all the mobs are dancing/being held. As if they have forgotten something.

    However, the objective of playing a game is having fun and if the OP finds it fun to stay purely defensive all the time, then yay for him

  12. #32
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,635

    Default

    For my tankish fighter I crafted a tower shield with spikes and incite 20%. Other useful affixes to consider are stability and lifeshield. If you are speccing for intim, then intim, persuasion and charisma items come useful.
    Last edited by stoerm; 12-25-2012 at 06:06 AM. Reason: focused on the important

  13. #33
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    7,099

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whesper View Post
    I meant that in quite often going with more offense is also a better defense strategy. In my mind, 'a tank' is a character who's controlling monsters, most usually by having their aggro, and good defenses so that he could save party's resources and enable a controlled takedown of the opposing force. Sometimes that means grabbing a two handed weapon and going to town.
    OK, I see what you mean. I think you have a good point here actually about a different kind of tanking that works pretty well in DDO: hate tanking. People come to DDO pull out a shield and say "I'm going to Tank!" Then learn the mechanics and gear barrier aren't quite what they had in mind. I had a guildie who came over from WoW with the same mindset. He got bored with the character after L7.


    I think explaining to the OP how to tank without turtling up can be even more affective than S&B tanking depending on the circumstances. If the OP has a high intim, looks for gear and enhancements that boost his hate generation, he could probably pull off an effective first life tank(ish) character without decreasing his damage output. It would probably be easier to build a hate tank than an AC build on a first life character.

  14. #34
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    Thanks for all the advice given.

    As for some concerns: Yeah I know it's better to play a fighter with a greataxe from the beginning, but I won't learn how to tank in this game (even if I'm playing with a hireling) if I wont start it early (experience in games like WoW tells me, that even though it is easy to tank early lvl stuff, it helps in getting the basic mechanics of the game - for example, thanks to the early tanking stuff I managed to understand how does intimidate work, which is quite different from how.... taunts work in WoW). And from what I see now, my dps is more or less similar with a D-axe and shield and a Great Axe (maybe the difference will is to small for me to notice, or in 2-3 lvls the difference will increase).

    I play a tank, because I like to play tanks, that's why I'm not dps.

    Thanks for the advice about what to craft etc, as someone said, even though I will not craft it myself (crafting level too low) I can try searching it on the AH or at least try to craft the most important shards myself). The advice given by Daemoneyes was very useful to me, thanks a lot.

    And Merry Christmas
    arr darn didnt see your post ><
    well np and now go and smash something
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
    Glitzakram - Trade Thread

  15. #35
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    17,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafus View Post
    I play a tank, because I like to play tanks, that's why I'm not dps.
    Just to be clear: DPS is an important part of being a good DDO tank, because your threat generation is based on it; so more DPS -> more threat -> holding onto aggro longer. Plus of course there are times when you just want to kill stuff faster. So part of being a good DDO tank is knowing when to switch tactics from full offense (e.g., greataxe w/Power Atk) to defense (d.axe+shield+maybe Combat Expertise).

    It's actually not hard to come up with a solid 28-pt dwarven tank, although human is often preferred due to heal amp & the Sentinel DMs (see my Sentinel Squire thread). Here's my version of a classic dwarf S&B tank:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 412
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 8
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            12                    14
    Constitution         18                    22
    Intelligence         12                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    17
    Bluff                -2                    -2
    Concentration         4                     6
    Diplomacy            -2                    -2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                    -2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     2
    Intimidate            2                    31
    Jump                  3                     6
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     2
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     3
    Spot                 -1                    -1
    Swim                  3                     6
    Tumble                2                     3
    Use Magic Device     -1                     9
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
    Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical and epic Toughness

    Mostly DPS-focused with a couple of tactics feats for good measure; but also with quite a few tanking / survivability feats (Toughness, Shield Mastery & Imp Shield Mastery, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, epic Toughness).
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  16. #36
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4,710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    That's like saying 'don't build a druid, just build a sorcerer' is good advice because that is the advice you wish you had when you built your first druid because you discovered you don't like playing druids later on.
    If I may offer you some advice, in the future it may be better to ask whether a person likes playing or currently plays a given character before declaring that they don't like it. My recommendation is not due to personal taste but objective fact: a shield offers very little to and takes away a lot from a low level character. Telling the OP that everyone offering dissenting advice is just a hater does them and you a disservice.
    Your play style may be nothing like his play style so advice which is essentially reads 'don't do that, do this instead' without context is practically worthless. "Don't do that, do this instead" is not good advice without further explanation. If you sincerely want to give him useful advice, you should flesh out your post a bit and explain WHY you think he should do the exact opposite of how he intends to build and play his character.
    I anticipate that someone asking for advice is relatively receptive to advice. I further anticipate that the interchangeable defense and significant increase in offense would be readily apparent to anyone trying it out, therefore no further exposition was necessary to reinforce the truth.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload