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  1. #1
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Default NERF: House of Death Undone

    This is not a "flame the devs" thread.
    Please DO NOT flame Turbine nor their employees.

    Use logic and reasoning when replying...I really do not wish for a thread lock-out.

    So I went to help a group run HoDU this morning and asked upon entering the group if they planned on hitting one of the optionals (Matron or Daughter chest) and the reply was "I have never done the optionals in here."

    I proceeded to explain that they are no biggie and would help them so we gathered the flashstones, blew up the library cauldron and then ran up top and opened the door only to be confronted by a second door blocking us from the Relig Wizard end fight. This door was neither knockable nor pickable.

    I immediately recognized it for the nerf that it obviously is and proceeded to cuss, rant and rave.
    After catching my breath an hour later, I decided to come here to the forums and find the logic and reasoning behind it.

    House of Rusted Blades was a no brainer...the way we violated that quest was tantamount to a prison gang-bang even if none of the mechanics we used were exploits.

    House of Death, however, was merely text book, by-the-numbers quest completions.

    The ONLY thing this will accomplish is to FURTHER separate the "I have it already" group from the "I am up and coming and really need it and don't have the levels nor equipment to get it" group.

    I run my toons and keep a name that allows me to run with people that are pretty exclusive and yet I turn around and go to the LFMs and actively look for the LFMs that people are asking for help and admitting it is their first time in a quest and I help them and never complain.

    There are some of us that are trying to close this gap and it feels like a MASSIVE wedge was just driven between the player base (which has been the single most voiced complaint about DDO since I started the game).

    Please give me a logical reason as to why this was done.

    We exploited the 25% reentry penalty by breaking group and regrouping to avoid a mechanic that you placed in the game...you reward us by giving us an easy-button to HELP us exploit your mechanic.

    We run HoDU EXACTLY by the numbers and we get punished. At least this is what it feels like.

    Even though I have already retorted most arguments already, I will still ask WHY...
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  2. #2
    Community Member Bloodhaven's Avatar
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    What changed?


    Run to flash bang, run to library use flash bang, run to boss , xp/loot

    That is the way i remember it.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    There is a door that is locked until the library cauldron is destroyed. There is a new locked door blocking Relig. This door is pickable, but the check is in the mid 70s on norm.

    Otherwise you have to go the long way and take the portal to the matron area and go on through to the end fight.

    Seems like high OL skilled rogues will have no problem finding HoDU destiny groups.

  4. #4
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    (1) You have to kill mobs at the library door now before it opens
    (2) On the first door on the fast-path to Relig you have to kill mobs before it opens.
    (3) The second door on the fast-path to Relig is locked w/ a high DC to open.

    When running this solo, I now run the long-way around to the Matron through the mess-hall.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  5. #5
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    the locks dc is 80 on norm ..most arties and rogues can achieve this at the lvl this quest is

  6. #6
    Community Member esoitl's Avatar
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    For those of us slightly unfamiliar with the quest, what is the long way around?

    I was in this today soloing and I couldn't for the life of me find any way past two locked doors. I had to resort to watching a walkthrough, but that was before this door...
    The other one I was stuck with was near the servants quarters. I am sure I ran all the way around the map looking for another route but couldn't get past either door. I went into the matron's room and killed Silan, did I miss something there?

  7. #7
    Community Member Mercureal's Avatar
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    I had never done this quest before the change, so I don't personally feel the loss. And I don't mind having a few optional things in the game that require a high skill check - but a lot of 21-22 level characters are going to have a hard time hitting the 80-ish DC.

    It can be done, but that doesn't mean that everyone has built their character to be able to do it.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    ...
    The ONLY thing this will accomplish is to FURTHER separate the "I have it already" group from the "I am up and coming and really need it and don't have the levels nor equipment to get it" group.
    ...
    Such is the quandary of playing an MMO. You will always be playing catch-up to the guy that started when it opened and plays 18 hours a day. Hopefully, there are enough people at your stage of progress that you find people to play with; luckily in DDO there are.

    If everyone's at cap, maxxed out, "Elite"; then no one is.

    Getting people to "end game" and having a common point to play with friends is great, and that trip should be shortened a bit, but it is impeded by the "Have"s feeling like "I had to grind ADQ 120 times to get my torc, thus so should you." Just look at all the entitled backlash that happened recently with Stones of Experience. You want to get caught up quickly, Noooooo, someone else thinks you must pay your dues, N00b.

    It's a balancing game for any MMO developer, and one they can't win.

  9. #9
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Not sure if this is helpful to the OP's question, but HoDU could be run to completion in 3-5 mins in it's previous incarnation. Much like the other one many talked about in detail here on the forums. And that was the problem. The devs appear to want people to slow down. So they add.... obstacles?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Not sure if this is helpful to the OP's question, but HoDU could be run to completion in 3-5 mins in it's previous incarnation. Much like the other one many talked about in detail here on the forums. And that was the problem. The devs appear to want people to slow down. So they add.... obstacles?
    In actuality, this quest could be completed within 1 or 2 minutes by a caster-heavy party. In fact, most of the LFMs that I ever saw for this quest were for arcanes and divines only - and since I haven't been working on leveling my arcane in some time, then I simply ignored these LFMs.

  11. #11
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    I have been running the newest content into the ground so I haven't been there in a while. I go and check it out now to see personally what the deal is.

    Now granted, Im a player that is used to completing all optionals in any given quest.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Crows View Post
    the locks dc is 80 on norm ..most arties and rogues can achieve this at the lvl this quest is
    1) Who runs this on norm though?
    2) If this is pickable as some suggest (my lvl 25 Wiz couldn't knock it on a 20) then it is on par with the slave door in HoRC and more fail that lock then make it...ALOT more.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Not sure if this is helpful to the OP's question, but HoDU could be run to completion in 3-5 mins in it's previous incarnation. Much like the other one many talked about in detail here on the forums. And that was the problem. The devs appear to want people to slow down. So they add.... obstacles?
    That isn't the point.
    The mechanics we use to run HoRB was, while maybe not an exploit, definitely not WAI.

    The mechanics we use to run HoDU is EXACTLY WAI and it gets nerfed.
    The 2nd quickest way sends you through a kitchen full of mobs (2 Necromancers, 4 Odd melee, roughly 15 Zombies) along with everything else along the way.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhaven View Post
    What changed?


    Run to flash bang, run to library use flash bang, run to boss , xp/loot

    That is the way i remember it.
    Now it is Run to flash bang, Run to library, Run to boss...oh ****...an unpassable door, run around screaming DOOOOoooooOOOOOoooooOOMMMMMmmmmMMMmmm until we accidently run into more mobs than we can't handle and die then go to guild chat and FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME until we calm down and can come here and post a rational thread about it and walk away laughing instead of threatening to quit DDO.
    Last edited by Ushurak; 12-23-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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  15. #15
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    You know, I always wondered why some of the those doors had a sort of "locked" symbol on it, but could always open them. Now they are actually locked.

    Is it possible the quest wasn't quite completely WAI?

    I just ran it on my rouge and nerfed my lock skills some, and I was able to get passed the doors on normal with a 66 + with tools.

    I see absolutely no issue with the "change".

    Now Im going to run it on a non trapper toon to see the whole change from a non trapping standpoint.
    Last edited by LOOON375; 12-23-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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  16. #16
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    1) Who runs this on norm though?
    2) If this is pickable as some suggest (my lvl 25 Wiz couldn't knock it on a 20) then it is on par with the slave door in HoRC and more fail that lock then make it...ALOT more.
    when it was used as a fast 2 min xp farm it was ran on norm alot

    i dont suggest the lock is pickable ..i know that it is,and know what the dc is ..i ran the quest the day it was changed untill i could narrow down what the dc was 79 fail 80 unlock

  17. #17
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    You know, I always wondered why some of the those doors had a sort of "locked" symbol on it, but could always open them. Now they are actually locked.
    You misunderstand...they added a door where there was no door and that door us locked...not any of the others...just the new "I'm a nerf" door.
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  18. #18
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    I find it funny that somehow Turbine can feel a door is an appropriate obstacle for people that fight gods and have access to magical powers which let them teleport. I also think it takes a pretty dim bulb to think that having to kill some monsters in order for a door to become passable makes any sense at all in an RPG in which doors normally act as doors and not some nonsensical barrier.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Crows View Post
    when it was used as a fast 2 min xp farm it was ran on norm alot

    i dont suggest the lock is pickable ..i know that it is,and know what the dc is ..i ran the quest the day it was changed untill i could narrow down what the dc was 79 fail 80 unlock
    80 BTW makes it impossible for wizards to knock (max of 78 or 79 I believe without a bard) and only possible for sorcs using cookies (and lots of other stuff).

  20. #20
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Like I said previously, Im a player that usually does all optionals anyway.

    The only "real" change I saw (my opinion) was when I blew up the cauldron in the room with the two cats, where there is a chest.

    You used to be able to just run past the cats, blow up the cauldron (which killed the cats) and then loot. Now if you do that, you destroy the chest and can't loot. On my second run, I killed the cats before blowing up the cauldron, and I was then able to loot the chest.

    And Im of the opinion that this change isn't a nerf at all. As far as I can tell, no change was made to xp.
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