Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 106
  1. #21
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    2,269

    Default

    No.
    There is no free lunch.

  2. #22
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    2,188

    Default

    /NOT signed

    Flagging is more about the storyline than anything else and that is at its CORE what D&D is all about. As DDO is a D&D based game this should always continue. A character only has to go through the flagging process one (1) time anyway and is not to much to ask. If the storylines of the quest are removed and/or avoided all together then a small piece of the D&D theme is also gone.

    Afterall the translation of the OP's request is really I want what I want without any effort at all if possible. I would not be surprised if most or many of the players wanting something like this are the same ones that can't be bothered to even pick up a quest themselves because their characters little pixel legs will get to tired (i.e. "share quest"). The next request will be "Devs' please put a button on the quest entrance and/or the quest giver that will allow the quest completion and access to all quest chests and end reward".
    Last edited by shores11; 12-17-2012 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Corrected a misspelling
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
    Guild Leader of Legends: Where adventurers are born & Legends live.

  3. #23
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Far beyond the ravens gate
    Posts
    5,512

    Default

    If you dont have flagging, you might as well not play, but buy everything you want

  4. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    If you dont have flagging, you might as well not play, but buy everything you want
    I would gladly buy an Inferno of the Damned Sigil every life. Turbine please sell me this, I am begging you.

  5. #25
    The Hatchery teh_meh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No we don't need more easy and less imerrsion.
    I agree. It astonishes me as to how easy and dumb this game will become if you let the community make the decisions.

    Respect the traditions and conventions. No more ideas or suggestions from the Halo generation of gamers.
    scrollfu! meowfu! +4fu! firstyfu!
    Maarl de Gutter (ret.) ~ Gnaaarl de Mutter (ret.) ~ Nineinch Rails (ret.)
    Intragreenis Druid - Human FvS [x2] Evoker ~ Guttural de Chanter - Elf Wiz [x4] PM
    Potpourri de Foo Foo - WF Wiz [Sx3][FvSx3][Wx3] Shiradi

  6. #26
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,184

    Default

    As someone who quit just at the time of the expansion, and then returned only only recently started looking at epic levels, I think the Eveningstar flagging is beyond stupid.

    I have no problem with the "flag to get to the expansion" quest chain, but after that it is a PITA. I keep wanting to run the new content but I can't easily because I have to flag all of the chains and all in order. That's is rediculous. If I want to skip the first chain and run through the third because that's what guildies are running/what LFMs are posted THEN LET ME. Its as if we shouldn't be able to run TS before GH and then GH before RR, and of course since the Shroud is based on the Abbot, you should had to flag ALL of the necros, including the raid, before running any shroud content (after all, the conversation starts basically "now that you killed the Abbott things are going screwy...)

    If nothing else, people should be able to "redbox" any content that they aren't on timer for (and I don't like timers either but since the store now sells timer items clearly that is staying)

  7. #27
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daine View Post
    PnP D&D had endless flagging.

    One of my favourite modules to introduce new players to the game was "U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh" which led to two other modules, "U2 Danger at Dunwater" and then "U3 The Final Enemy".

    G1-G3 Against the Giants series led to D1-D3 drow/underdark which culminated in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits. The dragonlance series is also noteworthy. There are just so darn many of them and no DM worth his salt would ever consider running them out of sequence.

    With such a multitude of contigous plots across modules in PnP D&D its no wonder it made it into DDO. For an old timer like me this is what helps DDO feel like D&D rather than playing 'Gauntlet' in the arcade.
    I loved those old modules. However, "flagging" just doesn't seem like the right word. The modules were to be played in a certain order because of their storyline, however it was all up to the DM. He could introduce them however he liked really, and incorporate them into his storyline, completely changing or modifying any aspect of the modules to make sense in his campaign, even changing the order or omitting entire parts (as well as adding his own).

    When I DMed Against the Giants, the Drow in my gameworld already were known and had interactions with the PCs. I even had an excursion into Depths or whichever, before the first of the Against the Giant's. That's just the way our storyline worked out. And I didn't feel any need to be locked into a suggested series of Modules' continuity.

    Also, "flagging" in PnP and "flagging" in DDO are two different beasts entirely. A PnP gaming group isn't looking to "join an LFM" nor do they have to worry about who is on which "chapter". As a matter of fact, those modules may have been part of a series, but also stood alone, with all the info needed. If a DM wanted to go straight to fight Lolth in the Demonweb, there was nothing preventing a DM from doing so, and all of the modules before it could be skipped entirely.

  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    /NOT signed

    A character only has to go through the flagging process one (1) time anyway and is not to much to ask.
    Only true in a single case.
    Necro 1-3 all require reflagging every time you want to run the crypt w/o window farming it.
    A character has to go through the flagging process everytime they TR for nearly every chain and raid in the game. Some of the flagging setups are very annoying...Gianthold in particular, even Vale to some extent.

    The ONLY raid in the game that does not require you to 'reflag' every life is Twilight Forge. For that, once you complete the flagging quests, you get a Sigil that you can keep in your bank and across multiple lives so that you never have to run the flags again. This is the *ONLY* raid or quest chain in the game where the statement quoted above is true.

    For all the other raids in the game, why can there not be some similar mechanic?
    Shroud, for example: Have an extra Signet, show that signet to the Shroud quest giver, and skip all flagging. You've proven you've already run all the flagging quests for that raid even if it was on a previous life.
    Reaver: Combine 1 of each dragonscale into some object that can be used the same way.
    ToD: The special item you get at the end of the raid that you require 9 of to unlock a ToD ring's bonus.
    etc and so on.

    Being required to go through the flagging process ONCE is not a bad thing. Being required to go through it again, and again, and again in order to access content gets old. Reflagging from most quests/raids was removed a long time ago for a reason. Now it is time to remove reflagging from *ALL* quests (necro, I'm looking at you!) and raids even if you TR.

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    west coast U.S.A
    Posts
    1,300

    Default

    I am going to have to agree with the man from the iron clan( ponders if that was inspired by the old pc game arcanum?)

    Especially in the smallish lvl 20+ area of the realms but even other things like raids I have had to of late turn down many requests to join them because I havent bothered to run flagging quests that I already know and never really enjoyed.

    For example I was doing some solo stuff recently on a lvl 22 when I get a tell asking if I could come join a normal shroud get filled and done. I am no fanned of shroud and havent used that character to run it since the damn thing first came out so long ago and I was lvl 14 in another life.

    Frankly id of still gone and helped but I wasnt flagged and wasnt about to bother to. The poor sod was truly astounded I could be in my 20s and not have flagged it, nor understand why I wouldnt want to. I watched that lfm go on and unfilled for more then an hour before the guy gave up.

    Had he had even my battle cleric then the presence of even a 12lvl divine build might of attracted more as that cleric icon sure does seem to ring out like a dinner bell.

    Frankly anything that can prevent someone from playing the content they want to play with the group they want to play it with is bad design in an MMO in this day and age.

    Even champions online the bastard little brother of City Of Heroes has a solid sidekick and exemp system.

    We could so easily do something similar here with current mechanics. Say your lvl 20 and want to join a group of lvl 12s, while in the group you suffer 8 incurable negative lvls. sure your gear is fierce, and your abilities better developed, but the handicap helps offset it enough in my mind to make it reasonable and certainly would increase options for teaming.

    Back in CoH I rarely ran the high lvl content with my completed characters, id exemp down and lead strike forces filled with lowbie first timers and revel in the fact my presence was making these people have a enjoyable first time play experience.

    People worrying about gear being to op well all I have to say is that most GS items are OP for the lvl range they can be used in, why would it be truly so bad to let a guy with some high end gear run with lowbies while still earning xp for himself and helping them as well.

    that was how mentoring worked in CoH and I miss it in every other MMO I play except CO which sadly is too shallow in content to hold ones interest for long.

  10. #30
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daine View Post
    PnP D&D had endless flagging.

    One of my favourite modules to introduce new players to the game was "U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh" which led to two other modules, "U2 Danger at Dunwater" and then "U3 The Final Enemy".

    G1-G3 Against the Giants series led to D1-D3 drow/underdark which culminated in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits. The dragonlance series is also noteworthy. There are just so darn many of them and no DM worth his salt would ever consider running them out of sequence.

    With such a multitude of contigous plots across modules in PnP D&D its no wonder it made it into DDO. For an old timer like me this is what helps DDO feel like D&D rather than playing 'Gauntlet' in the arcade.
    You're confusing a logical progression with a "requirement" VERY few OD&D modules even had an overarching story, let alone a REQUIREMENT to play one before another, for example there were very few instances where an item in one modual was required to get through another (the only ones I can remember where Dragonlance modules which by in large were terrible and generally dispised by my group). There's even a derogatory term in the P&P hobby for DM's/GM's that lead their players by the nose through content forcing them to stick to a linear progression.

    Did we all tend to play Against the giants in order? Yes. Did I run more than one group through Q1 without ever playing any of the Giants modules? yes.

    In any case your P&P experience may have been different but in DDO we're talking about a huge gauntlet of exclusions that kill grouping, flagging is perhaps the easiest one to eliminate, or at least relax to make grouping easier to do.

    Right now I'm looking at a very unfun several hours of perhaps solo casual runs in quests I don't know (so perhaps painful backtracking and lame discoveries of "need two players here to pull switches at the same time") or time reading the wiki to walk myself through.

    Haven't seen a LFM for that quest all day (my day off)...

    Oh well back to not playing DDO.
    Last edited by IronClan; 12-17-2012 at 12:22 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    84

    Default

    The only problem I have with flagging is getting the entire group thru quests at the same time. Not everyone can be on at the same time all the time. We try to plan it, but doesn't always work out.

  12. #32
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    /NOT signed

    Flagging is more about the storyline than anything else and that is at its CORE what D&D is all about.
    Just a note for those that are bringing up "story" dropping flagging requirements still gives you the option to play all the quests in order. It just means that those of us who don't care OR who have very limited time, OR are trying to play with our friends or join a LFM we want to join, aren't arbitrarily punished/excluded because of a silly flagging requirement.

    This really is more of a "whats good for the game" issue. DDO's flagging is utterly convoluted... Newer players must be bewildered and pushed away from the game because of:

    A) "Know it"
    B) "be flagged"
    C) "if anyone asks for "share plz" Imma kick them outtah mah partay"

    Between the need to google flagging requirements, and the expectation in the player community that you need to know quests, and be flagged, and if not you're going to be treated like a moron. There's a lot of new player kryptonite right there.

    To be honest I've been around MMO's since they were called MUDS, and there are things going on in DDO that make my head swim. Necro flagging, and GH flagging and now MOTU flagging.

    I can't imagine what someone with less experience feels like when they are REQUIRED to do internet research before they can run a quest! But I can imagine that it's not good for DDO's new player retention.

    Read the wiki and tab into the game; run around and go back and read the wiki; run around and tab out again; read the wiki; Just to find out they need 5 flags and an explorer area to run the quest they want. That sound like a MMO joke punchline, but's actually what I did last night.

    If you like flagging that's fine, maybe they can incentivize being flagged with as someone else said a better end reward (or perhaps a slight boost to named drop chances?)

    Incentive flagging, don't force people to not play in the available LFM's and don't make a complex game arbitrarily more complex.

    How do any of you who /not signed feel about making flagging a BONUS for doing it in the right order? That seems like a win/win to me.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  13. #33
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teh_meh View Post
    I agree. It astonishes me as to how easy and dumb this game will become if you let the community make the decisions.

    Respect the traditions and conventions. No more ideas or suggestions from the Halo generation of gamers.
    I've DM'ed P&P since 1979... My first RPG was programmed into an 800 series Atari PC line by line out of a magazine. I played HALO when it was called "Marathon" and even before that when it was called "DOOM" over IPX.

    How about sticking to the subject instead of trolling?

    Lets have some productive discussion instead of some intentionally inflammatory attempts to get Cordovan to close my thread?
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  14. #34
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,615

    Default

    Flagging quests

    Pros
    • Generally gives you an idea of what final quest will entail
    • Outlines a Story - Remember not all players are "Just Let Me Play" they want a good story for immersion.
    • Potentially helps build to level of end quest


    Cons
    • Forces players to play a quest or find away around flagging (Necropolis join a group already running end Tomb quests and Red box it)
    • Not all players want immersion - Dialogs and story are not why they play this game



    While I personally have no problems with Flagging or Pre-Raids, I do agree that certain raids and quests do have a tendency to be played more than others and the reasons are actually compounded.

    Flagging is only part of the problem.

    Necropolis 1-3 allow you to play the 4 flagging quests in any order before the last one is available. Series 1 and 2 require re-flagging, while series 3 can be picked up from the quest giver without resetting the entire chain. This needs better consistency and the best approach would be to allow the final quest to be reset on its own without effecting chain completion.

    Then there are the quests and raids that require finding random pieces, Abbot and Reaver's reach for example. While there are others that you can get the pieces to make the sigil once per a character and be able to skip the flagging quests for any subsequent life so long as you have the sigil (Titan).

    The other is the complication of getting to the quest.

    • Demon Queen has a Pre-Quest that requires a Full Raid group to separate into two groups in order to band together as a single raid group at the end.
    • Titan raid requires a Greater Teleport or running outside the raid group to the entrance of the Raid
    • Lord Of Blades and Master Artificer both require two explorer areas to be traversed before you get to the raids - At least these are Raidable Explorer Areas
    • VoD and Hound Raids both require an explorer area to traverse to Raid. Again both raidable
    • Reaver's Reach requires 3 Gems of 6 found in explorer area chests in order to access the final quest area.


    The other problem is the reward.

    Many quests rewards are out shadowed by quests and raids that come after, which also have items that are just as good if not better and are easier to get. Worst part is that they also have lower XP than what can be obtained from easier to reach quests - Think Shrieking Minds and Ghola Fan - Not an easy explorer area to navigate, in game map is useless. Doors and Keys are forced mechanisms to slow progression. Now I love both of these quests personally and run them every life, but they are way to hard for first timers to get to especially for the level range.

    ====================================

    I love story line and immersion, but I think the best thing would be to first make flagging consistent. Allow quests to be run out of order where they make sense. Remove re-flagging during a single life, ie fix Necropolis 1 and 2 to allow you to reset the final tomb only. Rethink Sigil collection for the Abbot Raid maybe make it simpler allow it to be created once like Titan, but require each quest to be run once each life to keep with the story line that you are asking for their help. Add a mechanism to port a person to the Titan quest entrance without Greater Teleport or having to drop from Raid group.

  15. #35
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    6,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    IMO, they should keep flagging up, BUT allow an option to skip it if you really want. Like what they did with the Attack on Stormreach II pack. You want to skip to Siegebreaker? Go ahead, but you'll miss the storyline.

    MotU quests have a very long and tedious chain of flagging. They should just open all three chains at the same time after you cross the rift, and requires only the demonweb one for the raid. Keep the requirement of the chain 1 for activating the teleports, and everything is fine.

    Yeah, I think there are some solid arguments against flagging for anything that isn't a raid. I'm not sure about raids though. I think I like how raids are the culmination of a storyline and that you have to run the flagging quests to qualify.


    I do hate pre-raids though. That was a **** mechanic IMO.

  16. #36
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    6,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I
    How about sticking to the subject instead of trolling?

    Lets have some productive discussion instead of some intentionally inflammatory attempts to get Cordovan to close my thread?
    Ha ha. You realize the guy you are responding to actually argued IN FAVOR of bullying and trolling because it helps to make people stronger.


    I can't find the thread now, I think it got closed.

  17. #37
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,896

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dterror View Post
    The ONLY raid in the game that does not require you to 'reflag' every life is Twilight Forge. For that, once you complete the flagging quests, you get a Sigil that you can keep in your bank and across multiple lives so that you never have to run the flags again. This is the *ONLY* raid or quest chain in the game where the statement quoted above is true.

    For all the other raids in the game, why can there not be some similar mechanic?
    Shroud, for example: Have an extra Signet, show that signet to the Shroud quest giver, and skip all flagging. You've proven you've already run all the flagging quests for that raid even if it was on a previous life.
    Are you sure that's not already the case? You need 40 Twelve favor to speak with Valairea Satnarine, then show a completed Shavarath Signet Stone to Grandmaster Aaseamah. Before Update 10 that was impossible without running every Vale quest at least on Casual, but now Madness quests also provide Twelve favor -- and are rather faster than Vale quests. So if you still have a Shavarath Stone from previous life, you still need to flag (sort of) but with more flexibility. My rogue got 40 favor without doing a single Vale quest, although she is a first-lifer so no stone.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  18. #38
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Ha ha. You realize the guy you are responding to actually argued IN FAVOR of bullying and trolling because it helps to make people stronger.


    I can't find the thread now, I think it got closed.
    Yeah I know, lets try and keep this a dialog and not a polarized either/or match, I'm liking the idea of making flagging a POSITIVE thing you do to make the quest chain more rewarding.

    A small boost to named loot drops seems like a simple and desirable way to encourage us to play quests in order. While letting players forgo flagging when they just want to jump in.

    The biggest problem with flagging is it eliminates spontaneously joining LFM's due to fear of not being flagged.

    Everyone be honest: how many times have you decided not to join a LFM because A) you weren't sure if you were flagged, OR B) you weren't sure if you needed to be flagged at all. So you asked around or searched the wiki and by that time the group was full? This has happened to me many times, and in a game where the community can be incredibly HOSTILE to anyone who doesn't know whats going on, joining an LFM and ASKING in party chat is a huge no-no.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  19. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    Are you sure that's not already the case? You need 40 Twelve favor to speak with Valairea Satnarine, then show a completed Shavarath Signet Stone to Grandmaster Aaseamah. Before Update 10 that was impossible without running every Vale quest at least on Casual, but now Madness quests also provide Twelve favor -- and are rather faster than Vale quests. So if you still have a Shavarath Stone from previous life, you still need to flag (sort of) but with more flexibility. My rogue got 40 favor without doing a single Vale quest, although she is a first-lifer so no stone.
    yes, because even if you already have the 40 12 favor, and you have the signet, the q-giver will not give you the shroud quest w/o first going through the silly little 'how to create a signet stone' quest...and even if you complete the signet stone quest, you must still run all 5 of the Vale quests once each in order to get the Raid bestowed upon you...until then Aaseamah just tells you something along the lines of 'there's more to do'

    All the favor with the 12 gives you is access to the altar upon which you craft your signet stones and greensteel blanks.

  20. #40
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,259

    Default

    I'd be fine with removing all flagging for non-raids. OTOH raid flagging is IMO a good part of the game. It creates a sense of "build up" for a raid, even if you flagged dozens of time and have no interest in story just having to go through those quests makes the raid feel a bit special. I still get a good feeling when I re-flag a TR for a raid.

    It's definitely a balance between creating some structure to the game, which is good, and not wanting to ridged a structure which interferes with efficient grouping and letting people do what they want.
    Gildus, Yhvain, Sabathiel, Einion

    Cannith, GOCI
    Be Chill, have fun

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload