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  1. #1
    Community Member Binn05's Avatar
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    Question Stat Damage Weapons: How useful they are?

    Hello,

    As title says, how useful stat damage weapons are?

    If some expert can point out the pros and cons about them or how to obtain the most from them would be nice.
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  2. #2

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    Mostly not very useful. Because con damaging weapons used to just absolutely crush everything, the devs went way overboard in the other direction.

    That being said, a weakening of enfeebling high crit range weapon will just TRASH beholders. They have pathetically low strength scores, and when they go helpless, their eyeballs turn off.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    at lower levels, they're quite solid (on a weapon that has a good crit profile, that is), particularly if you have a character that is dependant on enemies being helpless for damage (ie a lot of rogue levels).

    the higher level you go, the more inflated many stats will tend to get. once you get into epics, they become nearly useless.

    but yeah, wounding of puncturing rapiers are not bad or anything. they're just not instant win like they used to be... i found most enemies would lose all their con, which lowers their hit points fairly significantly. but again, that was with a rogue... for a fighter or barbarian, it won't be as good.

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    Community Member Binn05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Mostly not very useful. Because con damaging weapons used to just absolutely crush everything, the devs went way overboard in the other direction.

    That being said, a weakening of enfeebling high crit range weapon will just TRASH beholders. They have pathetically low strength scores, and when they go helpless, their eyeballs turn off.
    Can Str-damage weapons work as an AC boost?
    Since they reduce mobs Str's to-hit bonus?
    Or is it too irrelevant?

    Besides Beholders, which monsters a Str-damage weapon helps to fight? (as a mellee, in that case)?
    Quote Originally Posted by zztophat View Post
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    Community Member Binn05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    but yeah, wounding of puncturing rapiers are not bad or anything. they're just not instant win like they used to be... i found most enemies would lose all their con, which lowers their hit points fairly significantly. but again, that was with a rogue... for a fighter or barbarian, it won't be as good.
    That's because of fighter/barbarian's DPS?
    TWFing with one Con-damage weapon and a dps-weapon could offset this DPS?
    Quote Originally Posted by zztophat View Post
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    Community Member Therrias's Avatar
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    My answer is situationally.

    I wouldn't swing an Insanity greatsword full-time (it does Wisdom damage), but it's not a bad idea if you're fighting inside a disco ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therrias View Post
    My answer is situationally.

    I wouldn't swing an Insanity greatsword full-time (it does Wisdom damage), but it's not a bad idea if you're fighting inside a disco ball.
    Maybe, but Insanity is also pretty decent because of the higher-than-normal base damage, even discounting its other effects.

  8. #8
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binn05 View Post
    That's because of fighter/barbarian's DPS?
    TWFing with one Con-damage weapon and a dps-weapon could offset this DPS?
    no, that's because a rogue's DPS goes massively higher against a helpless enemy, and wounding of puncturing rapiers can very quickly turn a non-helpless enemy into a helpless one.

    for a barbarian or a fighter, helpless doesn't give nearly as much of a boost to DPS (though it is still a boost)... for a rogue, at level 12 as an assassin you're adding an extra 7d6 per hit minimum (well, actually, it's more because of sneak attack enhancements... but i'm too lazy to go look up just how much you can get by 12... probably the third tier at a guess though).

    now, barbarians and fighters will still get the +50% helpless bonus (but so will the rogue, and yes it does apply to sneak attack damage as well). but it just isn't nearly as much of a difference as it is for a rogue.

    of course, if you don't have aggro on the rogue, you get sneak attack either way... but i find that after 2-3 good hits (at that level), a rogue will be fairly likely to have aggro by then

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    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I use them in certain situations. In epic elite, where they would be the most useful, the damage is nearly entirely negated so it's pointless. At lower levels, it's great to use on beholders as mentioned. I do use stat damage sometimes in challenges, especially the Ring of Fire as it will effect the annoying orange named additional mobs that come along with the bosses. They tend to have a ton of hp on higher difficulties. If you can find a nice combination weapon with virulent con poison on it, you will find places to use it, just don't expect it to be your go-to weapon for most content.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Stat damagers are fine weapons. They work on a huge variety of opponents and that by itself makes them worthwhile. Enemies may have huge stat numbers so you can imagine lowering an enemy's str from 80 down to 10 takes alot out of their hits. Lowering their dex makes them easier to hit and lowers their saves against damage spells. You get the drift. The problem with stat damagers is that with all of the other weapons you carry and use in preference, (even when a stat damager would be a better choice) you rarely end up reaching for them.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I think of all the weapons the stat damage weapon is misunderstood the most

    Prefix
    • Weakening - This weapon drains the enemies’ melee power. -1 Strength on a successful hit.
    • Maladroit -This weapon afflicts enemies with sluggish and clumsy movements. -1 Dexterity on a successful hit.
    • Wounding - A wounding weapon deals 1 point of Constitution damage from blood loss when it hits a creature. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the Constitution damage dealt by this weapon.


    Suffix
    • Enfeebling - Critical hits by weapon deal an extra 1 to 6 of Strength damage
    • Bone Breaking - Critical hits by this weapon deal an extra 1 to 6 points of Dexterity damage by shattering the bones of its target.
    • Puncturing - Critical hits by this weapon deal 1 to 6 points of Constitution damage from blood loss.


    First I'm going to point out that the prefixes require a HIT and the Suffixes require a CRIT. I mention this because the Prefix can be just as valuable and more valuable on a Low Crit range weapon.

    There are others also, but these are the common ones found on random items.

    Earlier someone mentioned Beholders and Strength, Beholders actually have Low CON, STR and DEX. Any attack against those three stats can render one defenseless.

    Stat damage vs DPS

    DPS has become the main stay of the Melee world, obviously a dead mob can't hurt you. Stat Damage weapons actually shine in three places. 1) vs Regenerating mobs and mobs that can heal through cure and not heal spells (Heal spell removes the stat damage) 2) Boss type fights (10 points of damage can be applied per stat equivalent to -5 To-Hit or AC or Saves [ How many casters do you know wouldn't kill for +5 DC] ). 3) Where DPS is not enough, either because it cannot be applied fast enough or because the person swinging the weapon does not have the DPS, commonly found in melee that cannot afford Power Attack or because melee is the "fall back" ability of the build.

    Now TWF have an advantage to wield an appropriate stat damage and DPS weapon at the same time. The Sword and Board and THF need to switch (some will feel this is a hassle and stick with DPS weapon).

    One of the techniques that use to be used is one melee would wield the appropriate weapon, while the others applied DPS. Of course you have to leave the "my kill count is bigger than yours" ego behind.

    Common rules for the best stat damage (they have exceptions)
    1) CON - Casters
    2) DEX - Melee (not skirmishers melee/bow), Giant Kind
    3) STR - Casters, Shaman, and Rogues


    Using Stat damage weapons on a Melee Tank:

    Overlooked by many "TANK" builds is the advantage of STR, DEX, or CON stat damage while tanking. Using a Strength Damage weapon effectively boosts the tanks AC by 5. DEX increases the parties to-hit by 5 and lowers the reflex save by 5 - mind you many casters use DoTs or No-Save Spells, the 5 DC can make many lower level spells just as effective since the "BOSS" will fail more of their saves. CON also works for Fort Save Spells that can deliver high amounts of damage on a failed save.

    Using stat damage weapons on an Off-Tank:

    Sometimes the tank cannot generate enough "HATE" to hold the aggro when the party initially piles on. Sometimes this is handled by "Giving the tank extra time" to get ahead. This time could be reduced if the initial pile-on engages first with Stat damage weapons. This effectively lowers DPS for the short term and raises it after the tank has effectively established aggro. Again this is due to the lowering of AC and Saves. Also this could help reduce the damage on the Tank, which saves resources.

    Using stat damage weapons on non-DPS focused melee (Melee is "Fall back"):

    First this does not make them equal to a full on raged barbarian, it does however help to close that gap. Some creatures have a high regeneration rate (Natural or Spell) and can make life difficult for low DPS characters. What the stat damage does is helps by opening up a "Helpless" window which increases the DPS.

    Using stat damage weapons on Sneak Attack focused melee:

    What else can be said, anything that helps increase DPS and Sneak attack is a good thing.


    Each of these has its place, I recommend TWF to try and have at least 1 if not 2 stat damage style weapons for their off hand. I recommend a weakening weapon for tank builds to help reduce how often they get hit, however switching to this weapon should not occur if struggling to hold aggro as that needs to come first. For "fall back" I recommend 1 or 2 different types main goal is "To-Hit" so the crit effects is less important. For sneak attack DPS I recommend get one of each type and learn which gets you the best results against different Mobs.

    These weapons can be powerful tools in "team play".

  12. #12
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    I like Wounding of Puncturing in Running with the Devils on elite.

    They self-heal so much...that dropping their CON that one big spell will kill them.
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    When monsters had decent AC and out hit ratios were low...knocking off
    10 dex or landing a sunder really made a difference for the party and in
    some boss's cases turning off power attack....however as it stands now
    I wouldn't bother with any stat damage than say wounding or the odd
    wounding+puncture for levels 6-12 where dps weapons take over as a
    faster way to drop a monster.

  14. #14
    Community Member Binn05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    no, that's because a rogue's DPS goes massively higher against a helpless enemy, and wounding of puncturing rapiers can very quickly turn a non-helpless enemy into a helpless one.
    Had forgot about senak attacks and helplessness. Thnak you for explain it.
    Quote Originally Posted by zztophat View Post
    Horoth: "ya... well I'm just not feeling it any more, just... just take the chests, common' sulu let's go"

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    Community Member Binn05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Now TWF have an advantage to wield an appropriate stat damage and DPS weapon at the same time. The Sword and Board and THF need to switch (some will feel this is a hassle and stick with DPS weapon).
    That what I was thinking about TWFing. Thanks for confirming it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Using Stat damage weapons on a Melee Tank:
    Thanks again.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by zztophat View Post
    Horoth: "ya... well I'm just not feeling it any more, just... just take the chests, common' sulu let's go"

  16. #16
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    For non rogues stat dmg weapons have sadly fallen to little more then situational tools best brought out to assist casters. Especially on tougher mobs. Dmg to str,dex, and wis are great ways to help out a caster, especially a newer first lifer in landing spells.

    Now if your a rogue, especially a looked down upon so called gimp finesse fighting rogue with little strength, then my friend that is when stat dmg comes into its own.

    However simple wounding/weakening/maldroit have become someone weak tea next to the new generation of enchantments being found.

    Nights grasp for example adds a lovely 2d6 neg energy dmg on top of maldroit. Virulent poison weapons combine the classic and beloved WoP and such into a single suffix that brings poison burst for actual DPS to boot.

    I myself am dreaming of finding a Nights Grasp rapier of virulent dex poison. 2 points of dex dmg per hit with a good chunk on crits and steady poison and neg energy dmg every hit. Would be a beauty for trash killing.

    Finally for new lvl 20+ gear the Dagger of the High Priestess is an awesome tool for the rogue/wizard mixxes out there as its a reliable melee tool and debuffer as well as spell casting power booster. wis dmg on a weapon with improved para is a rather lovely and long dreamed of smart combo to be added.

    Just my thoughts but also my wounding rapier of radiance is a very reliable trash killer. For bosses I still recommend the typical optimal prefix suffixs that do raw dmg as red name fights always amount to HP punching bags to slug it out with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binn05 View Post
    That what I was thinking about TWFing. Thanks for confirming it.



    Thanks again.
    +1
    I play a very enjoyable though out of the box rogue fighter who fights as a swashbuckler using rapier/short sword/dagger mostly in main hand and the swashbucklers buckler in the offhand. especially in end game for rogues the weapon becomes less the DPS and more the key to landing their class based SA dps.

    Stat dmg and blinding are the two most reliable ways to do this, and once SA is going off every hit few things will stand for long in most content.

    doing pure stat dmg isnt the best but as said in my other posts new weapon effects exist to help combine dps and stat dmg in one.

  18. #18
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    levels 1-19 they work great, are absolutely fantastic. level 20-25 they are terrible do to the out-dated stat-damage resistance.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    something many over look about stat damagers.


    RAIDS:

    raid bosses can take up to 10 points of damage to each stat. ITs actualy well worth doing.

    10 con is 5 points of fortitude save, making the imp sunders land easier and for those of us that like to use disintergrate or other fort check spells. Im honestly not sure what con reduction does to a bosses HP totals - probably nothing but theres no easy way to test.

    10 dex is essentialy 5 less ac and reflex save. The 5 ac is no biggy to most meles but the 5 reflex save is a boon to some casters, air savants for example.

    10 str is essentialy +5 to 7 stacking DR for your tank - (or the whole group in gang beating scenarios).
    its also 'some' bonus AC - how much is variable now due to new combat mechanics.

    Generaly I take care of this on a caster, but theres no reason a mele (or off mele.. eg battle cleric) couldnt do this with weapons.
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  20. #20
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    I found that with Byshk weapons, stat damagers were actually quite beneficial. The range of elemental damage immunities were all over the place with that perticular kind of enemy, but a weakening here or enfeebling there allowed by gimped THF Pally to go through them like a knife through butter. It also helped that every weapon he touched was good-aligned.

    So when I make those sort of beaters I do a CON damager and Holy for non-pallies, and CON + STR for the pally.

    Granted, it's been a while since I did this. So don't quote me on the exact mixture of attributes.
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