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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    Ok. Why would anyone spend their points on all of that other "useless" stuff instead of beefing up their main stats?

    It's just a matter of opinion, and opinions on what a player wants differs from one to the next.

    There is no one right way to do things with destinies.

    It's attitudes like yours, and threads just like this that cause a gazillion "cookie cutter" builds to be running around.

    Regardless of how destiny points are spent, it's still an overall improvement to the toon.
    And somebody has to carry these flavor toons through quests, and those people max out their DCs.

    The cookies cutters exist because they are the best possible options, don't hate the player hate the game.
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  2. #22

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    Ability scores are good for many characters. Also there is the issue of the ranks in the trees. You need to spend 4 points down to buy anything higher and oft times a given low rank won't have much your build is interested in. Most of my characters have their ED stat bumps at the bottom of the tree in levels 1 and 2.

    I also like toys too much. I took the jumbo summon from Magister. Technically its just not very good, but it is "fun" and isn't exactly useless. But if you are the sort who runs epic elite on a caster, you need every scrap of DC you can muster and having a summon nickle and diming the mobs is not much help compared to holding them fast or killing them outright.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    I beg to differ. I think we end up with 'cookie cutter builds' because Turbine tends to provide few real choices to build a toon. Look at heroic (20th lvl) spell casters for example, most carry the same spells because a large portion of the possible spell list are junk spells. The same with feats. The largest difference in the feat lists for spell casters is spell pen or spell DC.

    Once you get into EDs things open up a bit. I expect that if there were a way to measure it, many characters end up with mostly the same ED build due to the fact that many ED abilities are bugged or far less useful than others. That is not to say everyone builds the same but some abilities are a lot more powerful than others.

    I personally am glad folks come on the forums and talk about this stuff. I'd prefer to have folks share knowledge than hide it to prevent 'cookie cutter builds'.
    That's not really Turbine's fault so much as a product of the D&D system it's based off of. In tabletop D&D you level much MUCH slower, so those spells and skills useless at lvl 20 matter a whole lot more when the highest lvl you may reach with a character might be just 10. And by the time you reach 20 in tabletop, you could care less about the abilities you took to survive some 2 years ago. Of course this is all up to the DM's discretion. He could start you at lvl 10 if he chose. But traditionally speaking...

  4. #24
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    because most ED ability's are complete useless for caster
    why are they useless?

    Mobility is king, if something requires your caster to stand still or in a very small area its very likely you will never use it on higher difficulty's.

    DC is king, want your net/discoball etc to be usefull or meh? 3dc can make a big difference.
    Also DC doesnt go away when you move.

    Resistance sigil and such stuff
    useless for most part, i shall cast something so i can sustain more hits?
    why not cast a CC or instakill and dont get hit anymore, less sp more effect.
    same applies to Sorc, either nuke it down or CC it

    so instead of getting rid of the problem you would try to live it out,
    which is the worst thing you can do.
    trying to play tank with a caster just lets you waste sp for defense and selfheal


    Same can be true for melee
    want +1damage/tohit and +1 to your tactical feats or a mediocre ability you will almost never use?

    That said, sure some things are worth the points but most are just a waste in a lot of ED trees.
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  5. #25
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Some epic destiny abilities work better with more stat points from their destiny tree. How many are there that have a save of character level + stat mod?

  6. #26
    Community Member NexEverto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    What am I missing here?
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  7. #27
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    YMMV but for me:

    20 Pale Master/5 Draconic: +8 INT from EDs (2 twisted). DC is king.
    18 Fvs/1 Monk/1 Wizard/5 EA: +7 WIS from EDs (1 twisted). For this build, DC is king.
    THF Melee 18 FvS/2 Fighter/5 LD: +1 STR, mostly as a way to get to tier 2. It evens out my STR.
    Unarmed 18 FvS/2 Monk/5 EA: +6 WIS for +3 Implosion/Blade Barrier/Stunning Fist/Slay Living/Destruction DCs.

    Stats rule when you're focused on DCs.
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  8. #28
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    It's also a matter of playstyle and the number of clickies in your toolbar you can manage efficiently.
    On my toons (a melee and a divine) I spend most points into passive abilities and stats.

  9. #29
    Community Member ElbionTcob's Avatar
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    If you are going for hardcore spell DC's I can understand it. +3 that you cant get somewhere else, as well as a bit more SP.

    But for melee's I don't actually get it. The points are MUCH better spent somewhere else in LD or Fury.
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  10. #30
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    What am I missing here?
    For most builds there is one destiny that is going to be optimal. The others will be somewhat or very much less so. Gaining XP in those sub-optimal destinies is not about spending the skill points, it is about earning the fate points.

    The power in epic destinies is as much in the one that is optimal as it is in the twists brought over from other destinies. And, at the high cost for developing fate points, it is necessary for many, if not most, characters to work each destiny to completion.

    When in the sub-optimal destinies it might be the case that nothing there really benefits the character. So, maybe no skill points are spent in that portion of the tree. Or, because nothing else really benefits, the thing that is most useful is to just increase one of the available stats.

    Inside of the optimal destiny there will be a variety of choices that a player might make depending on the specifics of their build and the way in which they play. There can be different needs than those that another person with a nominally similar build might have.

  11. #31
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    It's because character power scales with stats in very different ways.

    +2 Int helps a Wizard at least as much as +10 Str would help a non-tactics Barbarian.

    For the Wizard, the Int points are among the best parts of Magister (with the school focus line being the only thing that's much better). For a Barb in Fury, Str doesn't do all that much but some of the other effects (Sense Weakness, etc) are huge.
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  12. #32
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I agree with you OP although spellcasters that are dc focused should still probably spend the points in stats, but for every other build type the character should not spend points in stats because they get more from the non stat epic destinies enhancements. This is the single biggest mistake that players make when building their characters. There has always been shoddy character builders and will always be shoddy character builders that is just the way of it.
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  13. #33
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    Well, check the exalted angel tree on a wis based divine for example - three abilities work only on undead and outsiders (so are mostly useless in the content that actually gets run on EE, at least on Khyber), two are melee smites, and the epic moment seems to be bugged.

    There's also a bunch of abilities with only 1 tier, and a lot of stuff you can skip without missing out much (positive spellpower is pretty meh, it's not that problematic to heal most EEs even in other EDs on a divine, so why waste points on that for example; same with the spell point increase one).

    On a melee toon though, I can kinda see why grabbing more than 1-2 stats would be a waste.
    My question with responses like this is why are you an exalted angel if you do not like what it has to offer? Likely there is a better epic destiny for your character.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    My question with responses like this is why are you an exalted angel if you do not like what it has to offer? Likely there is a better epic destiny for your character.
    5 caster levels.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    5 caster levels.
    Unyielding Sentinel also gives 5 caster levels

  16. #36
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    +3 to DCs can be a big difference when landing spells on EE. Nevertheless, those enhancements are expensive. I rarely go for them. At first, I found them quite useful on my casters, but as I moved on, I learned more about the EDs and better ways to use their abilities.

  17. #37
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    EDIT: Mild necro. Bah, whatever. Still relevant.

    On a Sorc I think I'm with you re: Draconic, OP. I'd probably go nuts and disregard the +Cha skills entirely.

    Draconic on a DC based Wizard is an absolute nightmare to pick and choose due to the number of awesome abilities. Don't get me wrong; totally still my favourite DC wizard tree, and I still do get all 6 int points, but there are some serious temptations.
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  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    exalted angel tree on a wis based divine
    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    My question with responses like this is why are you an exalted angel if you do not like what it has to offer? Likely there is a better epic destiny for your character.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    5 caster levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boombastic View Post
    Unyielding Sentinel also gives 5 caster levels
    But no wisdom, which rules it out for a wis based divine as was specified in the post that sparked this.

  19. #39
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    In my particular case, I wanted my Wizard to be a CC specialist, with an eye towards being able to count on his various spells to stick even in EE content.

    I should mention that I am first life and thus do not benefit from the +1 DCs per past life.

    So if I wanted to be able to play the content I wanted to, I had to figure out another way to increase my DCs to the level necessary to be reliable in my CC spells, and that requires something around 52 or 53 in EE. I wan't able to pull that off- I'm at 49- but putting the aps into my primary casting stat made the difference between being totally useless in EE content to being at least somewhat useful (spells land about 40% of the time at a 49 DC). There really was no better use of those points that I saw.
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  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I agree with you OP although spellcasters that are dc focused should still probably spend the points in stats, but for every other build type the character should not spend points in stats because they get more from the non stat epic destinies enhancements. This is the single biggest mistake that players make when building their characters. There has always been shoddy character builders and will always be shoddy character builders that is just the way of it.
    maybe for some melee Norq..

    but for my Int based Rogue assasin i totally disagree, havn a 60 assasinate/54Int allows me to have a no fail assasinate except for the odd ee Troll that has insane fort saves and even then for sure ill get 1 of them. just might not get 2-3 of them with dbl strike and offhand attack.

    my consume works better then the majority of divines implosions.

    they never ever save against my shadow manipulation and die like there supposed to after taking aggro on a mob and i assasinate the rest of the trash.

    but then im build solely for ee's we dont run eh's that often except for raids.

    but i do agree to do your tree to fit your playstyle and to the strength of the content you run the majority of the time
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