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  1. #1
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Default Why spend points on stats?

    Serious question. You have 24 Destiny Points to spend in all things on your ED tree, and yet some people go and spend half of them to get +3 DC on spells. Or +3 to-hit/damage. Or whatever.

    I can understand when you have absolutelly nothing to spend on (Ranged character hitting Dreadnough tier 2), or need to round up an odd stat. But as the main shtick? Why would I get my artificer on Magister and spend 12 points on Int instead of going to that tree that reduces mob reflex saves, or Grand Summoner, or the Sigils/inherent resistance? There are so many cool toys on the ED trees, that I feel that wasting 4 AP for a +1 modifier to be a total waste.

    What am I missing here?
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

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    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  2. #2
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post

    What am I missing here?
    everyone has different prioritys/viewpoints ..there is no one single way to enjoy the game

  3. #3
    Community Member Contrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    What am I missing here?
    That there exist people with different opinions and preferences than yours.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrex View Post
    That there exist people with different opinions and preferences than yours.
    This.

  5. #5
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    The ones where I spent heavy on stats are the ones where those stats drive multiple in-game factors. Still, I've never spent fully on stats - most I have done is during my initial journey through Shadowdancer on my rogue when most of the **** was broken anyway - I think I put 4 or so points into INT.


    If someone was big on DCs, damage, attack, saves, whatever all driving off of one stat, I can totally see that.


    I'm not sure what build that is though ;-)
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  6. #6
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Because 1 combat or spell DC is still better investment than most of the "toys" I guess.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Rawrargh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    What am I missing here?
    +15% chance to hit with a finger of death.

    Sigils are clumsy, summons are mostly useless, variable resistances only provide elemental resistance after you've been hit.

    12 destiny points on stats is far more useful on a caster than on a melee. Artificers are in the same box as melee's here.
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  8. #8
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    That's the nice thing about Epic Destinies, they aren't all the same and there isn't just one answer to what you should have.

  9. #9
    Community Member sweez's Avatar
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    Well, check the exalted angel tree on a wis based divine for example - three abilities work only on undead and outsiders (so are mostly useless in the content that actually gets run on EE, at least on Khyber), two are melee smites, and the epic moment seems to be bugged.

    There's also a bunch of abilities with only 1 tier, and a lot of stuff you can skip without missing out much (positive spellpower is pretty meh, it's not that problematic to heal most EEs even in other EDs on a divine, so why waste points on that for example; same with the spell point increase one).

    On a melee toon though, I can kinda see why grabbing more than 1-2 stats would be a waste.
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  10. #10
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    Well, check the exalted angel tree on a wis based divine for example - three abilities work only on undead and outsiders (so are mostly useless in the content that actually gets run on EE, at least on Khyber), two are melee smites, and the epic moment seems to be bugged.

    There's also a bunch of abilities with only 1 tier, and a lot of stuff you can skip without missing out much (positive spellpower is pretty meh, it's not that problematic to heal most EEs even in other EDs on a divine, so why waste points on that for example; same with the spell point increase one).

    On a melee toon though, I can kinda see why grabbing more than 1-2 stats would be a waste.
    Thank you. That was a good explanation. I have not tried Exalted Angel yet (No epic divines on my account), so I missed the bugs on it.

    The question was mostly because on my sorcerer (that is NOT farming EDs, I choose to set him on DI, and that is final), I could not force myself to spend more than 2 DP on Charisma (Mostly, to save me 6 AP for more enhancements) because of the "dragon breath" tree, and the "energy burst" tree eating most of my points. And then I thinking that +6 reflex/fortitude/no fail fortitude is much more valuable than +2 Charisma.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    The question was mostly because on my sorcerer (that is NOT farming EDs, I choose to set him on DI, and that is final), I could not force myself to spend more than 2 DP on Charisma (Mostly, to save me 6 AP for more enhancements) because of the "dragon breath" tree, and the "energy burst" tree eating most of my points. And then I thinking that +6 reflex/fortitude/no fail fortitude is much more valuable than +2 Charisma.
    If your main focus is spell DPS, Energy Burst, spellpower, etc., are all very nice for a Sorc.

    But if you were DC-focused, CC & instakills, why would you want to waste your points on silly junk like sigils and summoning?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Thank you. That was a good explanation. I have not tried Exalted Angel yet (No epic divines on my account), so I missed the bugs on it.

    The question was mostly because on my sorcerer (that is NOT farming EDs, I choose to set him on DI, and that is final), I could not force myself to spend more than 2 DP on Charisma (Mostly, to save me 6 AP for more enhancements) because of the "dragon breath" tree, and the "energy burst" tree eating most of my points. And then I thinking that +6 reflex/fortitude/no fail fortitude is much more valuable than +2 Charisma.
    Addressing the OP, it looks like you are coming from a limited perspective having not done other classes and destinies, so your viewpoint is completely understandable. On a sorc, DI is AMAZING and every ability is so AWESOME I wouldn't bother with +cha at all. But... you aren't a DC based caster, your DC spells are secondary at best. A wizard lives and breathes DC, and frankly the abilities in magister completely suck compared to DI.... but they do add the one thing a wiz can't much get elsewhere, which is DC and spell pen. My wiz has DI leveled in probably the same way you do, and sometimes I switch to it just to go into sorc mode (admittedly, not as well as a sorc). Different classes/styles have different needs, and sometimes +9 int is the right answer.

  13. #13
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    Well, check the exalted angel tree on a wis based divine for example - three abilities work only on undead and outsiders (so are mostly useless in the content that actually gets run on EE, at least on Khyber), two are melee smites, and the epic moment seems to be bugged.

    There's also a bunch of abilities with only 1 tier, and a lot of stuff you can skip without missing out much (positive spellpower is pretty meh, it's not that problematic to heal most EEs even in other EDs on a divine, so why waste points on that for example; same with the spell point increase one).

    On a melee toon though, I can kinda see why grabbing more than 1-2 stats would be a waste.
    My question with responses like this is why are you an exalted angel if you do not like what it has to offer? Likely there is a better epic destiny for your character.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    My question with responses like this is why are you an exalted angel if you do not like what it has to offer? Likely there is a better epic destiny for your character.
    5 caster levels.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    5 caster levels.
    Unyielding Sentinel also gives 5 caster levels

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    exalted angel tree on a wis based divine
    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    My question with responses like this is why are you an exalted angel if you do not like what it has to offer? Likely there is a better epic destiny for your character.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    5 caster levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boombastic View Post
    Unyielding Sentinel also gives 5 caster levels
    But no wisdom, which rules it out for a wis based divine as was specified in the post that sparked this.

  17. #17
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    Simple answer: because for some builds everything else in a given ED is even less useful than a small stat increase.
    Turbine's idea of epic powers is somewhat odd. They introduced epic levels as a major way to make money, yet are too afraid to give player characters actual epic powers (no epic spells etc).

  18. #18
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    While a sorc that wants to go nexro/enchantment does need as much DC as he can get, Draconic Incarnation really has some nice stuff to pick. Caster level, spell power and the burst/breath/sheath are ofter a bigger priority compared to cha. It really depends on the build and on the player, I don't think we can generalize much here
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  19. #19
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Ok. Why would anyone spend their points on all of that other "useless" stuff instead of beefing up their main stats?

    It's just a matter of opinion, and opinions on what a player wants differs from one to the next.

    There is no one right way to do things with destinies.

    It's attitudes like yours, and threads just like this that cause a gazillion "cookie cutter" builds to be running around.

    Regardless of how destiny points are spent, it's still an overall improvement to the toon.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    It's attitudes like yours, and threads just like this that cause a gazillion "cookie cutter" builds to be running around.
    I beg to differ. I think we end up with 'cookie cutter builds' because Turbine tends to provide few real choices to build a toon. Look at heroic (20th lvl) spell casters for example, most carry the same spells because a large portion of the possible spell list are junk spells. The same with feats. The largest difference in the feat lists for spell casters is spell pen or spell DC.

    Once you get into EDs things open up a bit. I expect that if there were a way to measure it, many characters end up with mostly the same ED build due to the fact that many ED abilities are bugged or far less useful than others. That is not to say everyone builds the same but some abilities are a lot more powerful than others.

    I personally am glad folks come on the forums and talk about this stuff. I'd prefer to have folks share knowledge than hide it to prevent 'cookie cutter builds'.

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