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  1. #1
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Default The life and times of Ruh Roh Shaggy

    For those who might have missed it, I have become interested in seeing if I can build a character that starts with 6 CON and ends up still not just playable but actually pretty good at what it does. There is a not so long story behind all of this which you can follow in a couple of threads if it really matters to you (found here and here).

    Bottom line is that I decided to make a 28 point drow using a build suggestion from the forums of a 12/7/1 kensai fighter/thief-acrobat rogue/druid front-line quarterstaff melee working from just a 6 base CON. The build I came up with is:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Ruh Roh Shaggy
    Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
    (12 Fighter \ 7 Rogue \ 1 Druid) 
    Hit Points: 272
    Spell Points: 230 
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    30
    Dexterity            18                    26
    Constitution          6                    10
    Intelligence         10                    14
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma             10                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               8                    23
    Bluff                 4                     6
    Concentration        -2                     2
    Diplomacy             0                     2
    Disable Device        4                    25
    Haggle                0                     0
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  8                    12
    Intimidate            0                     2
    Jump                  4                    23
    Listen                0                     2
    Move Silently         8                    12
    Open Lock             8                    12
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     2
    Search                4                    27
    Spot                  0                     2
    Swim                  4                    10
    Tumble                n/a                  13
    Use Magic Device      4                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precision
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
    Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
    Enhancement: Fighter Quarterstaff Specialization I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
    Enhancement: Improved Balance I
    Enhancement: Improved Balance II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III
    I started the character on 11 December choosing to begin on Korthos Island and to restrict him to only those things that he found as if a first ever character. The only exception is that I allowed myself to twink the character with any quarterstaves I had saved up along the way. And, I will allow myself to use DDO store tomes if I do not acquire them via quests or the AH since I do that anyway on all my characters. I named him Ruh Roh Shaggy on the assumption that he'd become a dog of a character. (FWIW, the druid pet is named ScoobyDo.)

    Thus far I've soloed thru the Korthos Island snowy side on normal, ran all the harbor solo quests, soloed thru Durk's, Info is Key, Bringing the Light and Garrison's on normal and then joined a group for Butcher's Path -- hard and elite -- and Waterworks elite.

    I've died only in WW part 3. That came when I was busy carrying a soul stone to the upper shrine and the rest of the group dropped down into the water. After getting the other character up I dropped down, picked up the remaining soul stones and tried to make the bottom shrine thru remaining kobolds, oozes and spiders.

    I got the doors open and soul stones to the shrine followed by an ooze and spiders. Dropped to below 0 but stabilized. Died (2 or 3 times0 in the ensuing raise and die fight against the mobs in the shrine. Died again at the end fight of part 3 and the friendly and helpful party members seemed to forget where the shrine was because they moved straight on to part 4.

    I recalled and headed back to the quest arriving just as they all died fighting an ogre. I managed to kill the kobolds in front of a shrine and to sneak in to where the soul stones were. Most of the party decided that it was too hard and dropped group. I grabbed the one that was left, took them to the shrine, we rested then went and killed the interrogator and found the body to finish the quest.

    So now Ruh Roh is sitting at L4 with the first bubble of L5. Would not have had any deaths if the group had played a bit more conservatively, but that happens sometimes.

    I'll come back and post from time to time as I gain levels. The whole experiment is designed to see if I can make it work or if I give up in frustration.

  2. #2
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    I'm really interested to see what happens in elite gianthold. I always die at least once in elite Feast or Famine just from eating a disintegrate, even with ~400 hp...can't wait to see what happens to you there. :P
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  3. #3
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    lol. awesome. keep us posted please.



    i so have to link back to this when someone is shooting their mouth off

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  4. #4
    Community Member Noopleh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    lol. awesome. keep us posted please.



    i so have to link back to this when someone is shooting their mouth off
    To be fair some people manage to have have excellent characters without maxing CON (a bit extreme there I know). I believe that Robai has 8 CON? I forgot what his base CON was but I do remember it being low, he is also a 28pt build and kicks ass in any epic elite.
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  5. #5
    Blogger and Hatchery Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noopleh View Post
    To be fair some people manage to have have excellent characters without maxing CON (a bit extreme there I know). I believe that Robai has 8 CON? I forgot what his base CON was but I do remember it being low, he is also a 28pt build and kicks ass in any epic elite.
    i meant i could link back to this thread when someone is on the forums saying "YOU MUST HAVE 16-18 CON OR YOU ARE AN UTTER GIMP AND FAIL AT LIFE!!!!!1!!!!!1!!



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  6. #6
    The Hatchery Antiguo's Avatar
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    Meh, you picked Toughness, weak

  7. #7
    Forum Turtle
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    I'm interested to hear about how you do in the upper levels. My sorc did not dumpstat con, and has considerably more and 312 hp at level 17, but still gets oneshoted with damage hits of up to 500. SO I'm curious what will happen to a character with such low hp as the damage grows crazily.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I'm interested to hear about how you do in the upper levels. My sorc did not dumpstat con, and has considerably more and 312 hp at level 17, but still gets oneshoted with damage hits of up to 500. SO I'm curious what will happen to a character with such low hp as the damage grows crazily.
    Well, that is the real test. Right now I'm probably getting by on game knowledge. It also helps that I was able to con my guild into giving the character an invite so I get a few ship buffs. Only a medium guild so nothing too fancy, but at the low levels 20 point resists are pretty powerful.

    So I guess I could be accused of cheating a little bit at the moment. We'll all find out when I get to the upper levels.

  9. #9
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Nice.

    I always wanted to make a 8 Con WF with max plating, no heal amp. Running around in Pugs yelling "Hjeal Meh! Nao! >.<"

    Also someone told me of an idea of a toon with max intim (CHA max) that was crappy at doing everything except running ahead and gathering up mobs for the rest of the party to kill :P

  10. #10
    Community Member Noopleh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Nice.

    I always wanted to make a 8 Con WF with max plating, no heal amp. Running around in Pugs yelling "Hjeal Meh! Nao! >.<"

    Also someone told me of an idea of a toon with max intim (CHA max) that was crappy at doing everything except running ahead and gathering up mobs for the rest of the party to kill :P
    But isn't it more fun when you have more HP? Because it sounds like me! Max HP, no amp!
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  11. #11
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noopleh View Post
    But isn't it more fun when you have more HP? Because it sounds like me! Max HP, no amp!
    Take "Healer's Enemy" enhancements too.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Slink's Avatar
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    smart gameplay > HP

    Especially on a self-healing character.

    Until lvl cap increase from 16->20, my cleric ran with 8 con base and hogf for a fort item.
    With the addition of all the easy to get ammenities/buffs/items, playing a 6-8 con character by a competent gamer is not that difficult.
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  13. #13
    Community Member xxScoobyDooxx's Avatar
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    I just popped in to say woooohoohooohohoohoooooo
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  14. #14
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slink View Post
    smart gameplay > HP

    Especially on a self-healing character.

    Until lvl cap increase from 16->20, my cleric ran with 8 con base and hogf for a fort item.
    With the addition of all the easy to get ammenities/buffs/items, playing a 6-8 con character by a competent gamer is not that difficult.
    Sure but a message like that might send the wrong signal to a newer player, they feel pretty confident playing normals and hards and then try to get into an EE group or what have you and have heartache because they get booted straight away.

  15. #15
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    I'm not sure what your feats and enhancements are but if you've picked toughness and are going to be decking your character out with HP gear then your experiment is already invalid.

    Also fighter levels gain a decent amount of HP as compared to playing a pure arcane, rogue or arti so you didn't really pay much attention to the thread that made you want to try this.

    The original issue being discussed wasn't starting con, it was HP specifically on elite BB and epic difficulties only. Low starting con with no toughness and no HP gear were the people considered unready for elite BBs and epics.

    And I'll take another guess here, you will level to 20 on normal difficulty, or raise your HP to decent levels with toughness and gear to play elite and epics which completely invalidates the original reason for this test.

    FYI no one in the thread that convinced you do this said you needed 16-18 con to make a valid character. I generally put 14 on most of mine, even 12 on a drow, or 16 on a WF or Dwarf but only after I already have good HP gear and even a +4 con tome.

    Your experiment is biased and flawed based on your misinterpretation of what people were saying in the low HP thread (read that correctly, it wasn't a low Con thread).

    My specific issue in that thread was having 80 hp level 10, and 120 hp level 15s join my Elite BB groups. I would kick them without hesitation because that much HP simply isn't good enough for elite BB. Your misinterpretation is having 6 con along with toughness and HP raising gear, and being able to reach level 20 on normal difficulty. In other words you have no idea how to read or understand what I or anyone else was saying as to why low HP is bad on elite BB and epic elite.
    Last edited by DDOisFree; 12-13-2012 at 05:18 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    For those who might have missed it, I have become interested in seeing if I can build a character that starts with 6 CON and ends up still not just playable but actually pretty good at what it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    In other words you have no idea how to read or understand what I or anyone else was saying as to why low HP is bad on elite BB and epic elite.
    Apparently reading comprehension is an acquired taste.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    In other words you have no idea how to read or understand what I or anyone else was saying as to why low HP is bad on elite BB and epic elite.
    Actually, I don't care what you think you were saying.

    I know what I'm attempting to do and what it is that the experiment will prove (or disprove).

  18. #18
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    The thread in question was titled 'Kicking someone out of party because of low HP', not because of low Con. So basically all you are doing here is starting a character with 6 con and building / gearing it to have enough HP so that you can overcome this starting limitation.

    There isn't anything here to prove / disprove that isn't already known.

    - You can already level any build with any starting stats to level 20.
    - You can handle casual and normal difficulty on any build as well
    - You can make a 6 con character and overcome the HP issue with gear, tomes, feats, enhancements, even barbarian past lives.
    - You can continuously die over and over and over again, yet simply get carried through the entire game by other people.

    So what is the point of this 'experiment' other than stroking your ego?

    Taking ship buffs in the early levels is definitely cheating. One of the worst encounters in the early game is kobold casters spamming lightning bolts which will kill any character with 60ish HP in a single shot. Taking ship buffs for resistances negates any early game challenge.

    FYI I play through the entire game without ever taking ship buffs. Because compared to how well built my characters are from the start, the buffs are meaningless.
    Last edited by DDOisFree; 12-13-2012 at 06:36 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    ~snip~
    FYI I play through the entire game without ever taking ship buffs. Because compared to how well built my characters are from the start, the buffs are meaningless.

    Could you please list all your toons if you're on Orien so I can safely avoid you?

    Stop ruining other people's enjoyment of the game and go make your own groups. Therigar has the right to do with his toon what ever he wants.

    Good luck with your experiment Therigar
    Last edited by IWBronzefury; 12-14-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    <snip>

    So what is the point of this 'experiment' other than stroking your ego?

    <snip>

    FYI I play through the entire game without ever taking ship buffs. Because compared to how well built my characters are from the start, the buffs are meaningless.
    One would think, given your seemingly inexhaustible capacity for doing so, that mastery in the field of ego stroking is yours by default.
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