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  1. #1
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    Default Seeking AA build that only uses ranged dps.

    Not an artificer splash please. I want a ranged build that only uses ranged, and maintains reasonable dps with it. Does such a build exist?

  2. #2
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    I've found more success focusing more heavily on the caster side and qualifying for AA. When you go ranged, it's far more effective to range kite through a persistant aoe than it is to range dps tank (stand there taking direct hits) while self healing.

    After playing an artificer, the runearm pretty much puts the dps on my AA to shame even with manyshot and improved precise.

    I know there's some pretty effective high str rangers that can put out some significant damage but it's not something I've ever built.
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    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    It's hard to make an AA that only uses ranged and is still good dps. Some builds come close but even those will melee now and then.

    Mainly because if you run a 10k stars build, it will have 30 seconds every 2 minutes (+10 seconds but that's minor) when both MS and 10k stars are on cooldown: single arrow pew pew is low dps.

    In quests you can get away with choosing the right timing for 10k stars/MS and always having them active in fights, cooldown while moving, waiting etc...vs bosses you might feel the lack of an alternate source of damage tho.

    I'm working on a build that focuses on ranged a lot...but it will still get 50ish str, hopefully, in order to be able to melee when needed. If you're interested: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=400978
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  4. #4
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    It's hard to make an AA that only uses ranged and is still good dps. Some builds come close but even those will melee now and then.
    This is just flat out wrong.
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  5. #5
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    This is just flat out wrong.
    You just said you melee yourself. Also if you read my whole post, I specified you CAN do good ranged-only dps in quests, but you definitely lose damage in those 40 secs/2 mins vs bosses, compared to someone who can also melee decently. Not to mention you'd also charge ki/vorpal rolls for UF way faster with fists than with single arrow.
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    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    You just said you melee yourself. Also if you read my whole post, I specified you CAN do good ranged-only dps in quests, but you definitely lose damage in those 40 secs/2 mins vs bosses, compared to someone who can also melee decently. Not to mention you'd also charge ki/vorpal rolls for UF way faster with fists than with single arrow.
    I can tell from your response that you do not know what you are talking about. Before you hold yourself out there actually try ranging all the time. I sometimes do not melee the entire quest depending on how many shrines there are in a given quest. I only melee to get my ki up there. I do not want to melee or be melee oriented at all.. I do more dps ranging the entire time in Fury of the Wild. I have gtwf but is it a total waste and as they provide more feats plan to respec.
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    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I can tell from your response that you do not know what you are talking about. Before you hold yourself out there actually try ranging all the time. I sometimes do not melee the entire quest depending on how many shrines there are in a given quest. I only melee to get my ki up there. I do not want to melee or be melee oriented at all.. I do more dps ranging the entire time in Fury of the Wild. I have gtwf but is it a total waste and as they provide more feats plan to respec.
    I admit I never tried the 12/7/1 version. But I have played many AA builds, and single arrow DPS is always low compared to melee, especially to wraps. I have indeed tried ranging all the time, for example on the 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter, and unless you have a couple of held mobs to attack with IPS your melee will be way more useful in those 30 secs. Not to mention Stunning Fist.

    Also how about Sense Weakness or Tunnel Vision, since we're talking FotW? I think they only apply to melee attacks (but the % portion of sense weakness which should work w/ everything), so how can you say your single arrow dps is higher? How about Mabar wraps in the right situation, will a triple pos bow deal more damage, with single arrow? I don't think so.

    Sure YOUR build might deal more damage with single arrow IF you sort of dumped melee, that doesn't mean it's the best choice, and doesn't mean you can't make a better build with almost same ranged dps and a good melee dps to use during cooldowns. I know very well what I'm talking about...I remember a few discussions about ranged in the past, you've proved to know enough about it but everyone can make mistakes. I'm still convinced 100% ranged < 70% ranged 30% melee. Again, SF, tunnel vision, sense weakness just to name some.

    P.S.: ofc talking about "optimal" build. You can make viable builds where you just pew pew, but they will be improvable. My 1st life ranger pew pewed all the time and it wasn't bad at all, but it got a whole lot better with some trs throwing in melee.
    Last edited by FengXian; 12-13-2012 at 03:34 AM.
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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    Not an artificer splash please. I want a ranged build that only uses ranged, and maintains reasonable dps with it. Does such a build exist?
    If you are unwilling to go with artificer then you really have very limited options. Probably the best are to go with 6 monk levels for 10k stars and build an arcane archer. The advice to do this on a caster character is not necessarily bad. If I were to do it I'd go wizard for the bonus feats that you can use for your metamagics. That lets you put your standard feats towards the arcane archer parts.

    I'd also go half-elf in order to maximize the dilettante (probably rogue) and get access to healing amp and human versatility.

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    Alright, message has been received that ranged on a non artificer build is not viable 100% of the time. In that case, is Helves' Angel still solid, or is there a new ideal choice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    Alright, message has been received that ranged on a non artificer build is not viable 100% of the time. In that case, is Helves' Angel still solid, or is there a new ideal choice?
    There have potential to be obnoxiously high DPS. Still a very solid build in that regard.

    Mostly ranger has some different feature such as better able to build for self healing.
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  11. #11
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    Alright, message has been received that ranged on a non artificer build is not viable 100% of the time. In that case, is Helves' Angel still solid, or is there a new ideal choice?
    It's solid, especially because it offers decent melee dps and a really good ranged dps every 120 seconds. It's not my main recommendation for a mainly-ranged-AA, but still a nice choice. In particular, I like the fact that both combat styles, ie Khopeshes and Combat Archery'd Bows benefit from the Overwhelming Critical feat. See my post U14-notes in the original Helves Angel thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    But I have played many AA builds, and single arrow DPS is always low compared to melee, especially to wraps.
    While this is true, 10k Stars archers are not faced with this problem so much - you just need to make sure that you don't fire single arrows most of the time.

    Personally, I find that it's quite easy to stay ranged on a 10k Stars archer. Within a window of 120s, you have 20s of manyshot and 2x30s of 10k Stars. The cooldown of the latter is 60s. This means there are only 40s od 120s where you don't deal good ranged damage.
    Take into account that most quests have some areas where you don't fight mobs, but are running, or listening to cutscenes, then you might be able to arrange it so that the 40s are falling into these areas anyway.

    There is one 'issue' while leveling such a build: 10k Stars needs Ki, and ranged attacking does not generate ki. I.e. from time to time, you will need to melee to build up ki. At cap, the GMoF's Enlightenment (with 3 ranks) offers a passive ki generation also for non-pure monks, which literally allows you to stay ranged all the time.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 12-13-2012 at 04:05 AM.
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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    There is one 'issue' while leveling such a build: 10k Stars needs Ki, and ranged attacking does not generate ki.
    Some players are choosing their stances in order to have passive ki generation. This is another option if you have Greater Ocean (Master of the Seas) stance available.

  13. #13
    Community Member boredman's Avatar
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    Look at this Monkcher 12monk /6 ranger/2 fighter i found on youtube that can farm scrolls on epic elite, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K6XI3mUTiE , the gear and heroic enhancements are showed at the end of the video, but good luck getting all the gear and epic destinies first.
    Last edited by boredman; 12-13-2012 at 09:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member masterzzan's Avatar
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    i know you said no melee but try this one: 11 ranger\9 dark monk half elf with rouge dil.
    you use the
    ranger to get: A.A. casting pre-requests.,bow str, full range and melee 2wf feats.beside the nice spells.

    monk get you :the touch of death ,improved evasion and ninja spy I invisibility (also whole self to heal if no sp). i like the dark path because u get ki while hiding.use zen archery. 1k stars if you want to as well.

    half elf to get: the A.A. prestige class(don't use the ranger as you can't get the full class with only 11 ranger class levels). and the rouge dill will add sneak attack to the ninja spy's.

    the nice combo here is that you range with all the feats you want. and then can go melee with a monk's full attack options. notice that 2wf feats give off hand monk special attacks a 2nd chance as well. i got more then once a 1.5-2k damage hit with touch of death getting an off hand attack. you can also use short swords for the monk. and the Celestia in CitW is a very nice thing. specially if you can get 2 to dual wield.
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    To the OP. Forums are filled with people who spend very little time ingame and therefore speak of builds that they never have played. Theory is nice yeah but as someone who just capped my monkcher, the DPS is insane. Obviously it's not the DPS of a 10 charges Blitz barb but yeah.. lots of burst DPS and in DDO, that's what you want (10 secs EE claw giant? np). Very few are the fights where the cooldowns on 10k star/Manyshot can be an issue, and you can definitely spare one feat for GTWF on a 12monk/6ranger/2fighter). I never put down the bow except on long boss fights.

    I will say this: you are the highest burst DPS in the game, with 43 PRR, 12% dodge, stun every 15 secs, 25% incorporeal, full time displace and somewhat okay AC and you are not even meleeing.

    Edit: agreed with what Karl-k0ch said.
    Last edited by Symerith; 12-18-2012 at 02:28 AM.

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  16. #16
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symerith View Post
    Very few are the fights where the cooldowns on 10k star/Manyshot can be an issue, and you can definitely spare one feat for GTWF on a 12monk/6ranger/2fighter). I never put down the bow except on long boss fights.
    I think this point should be clear by now. It's a good idea to get melee for those 40 secs vs bosses (and possibly for Stunning Fist).

    It could be possible to have bow only builds, maybe like the super-focused Kensei Certon is talking about (although I'm pretty sure you can get much higher crits), but it's definitely not easy to make them work. Again, always talking about optimal builds, EE etc...

    If you want something tested by many people, which you know will work if you make it right, roll a monkcher and be prepared to melee now and then, it's no big deal really. Besides, while pretty hard to play, it's also a very fun split, and you get abundant step, running speed, imp. evasion, water stride etc, lots of goodies.
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  17. #17
    Community Member FreeMemory's Avatar
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    This may sound crazy, but my helf season's herald druid with ranger dilly while in elemental form (fire/water) does better dps when using AA bow than with a melee weapon, so with pet wolf and summon doing the melee, I just cast and shoot. I have high bluff on my wolf as well, which usually turns around any aggro'ed targets, letting me get a few more shots in at distance. In tight quarters I also throw up Body of the Sun, which is like a high power firewall (level x d6) that surrounds & follows you. In addition to the AA bonus I put the crown of summer enhancement on myself for an extra no-time-limit 2d6 light damage on my bow, not to mention the 15% healing amp. If I want to put the crown of summer on someone else, I can use the fires of purity spell to add 2d4 fire to weapon and debuff fire resistance. So far so good to level 19. For epic I'm planning on adding the Shiradi Champion archer ED abilities which are available to druid. The AA helps conserve spell points as well since I save them for heals or when high power boss/crowd damage is needed.

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  18. #18
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    crazy idea, and one i've never tried, so uhhh... don't expect too much in the way of awesome results.

    however, do you specifically want bow DPS ranged, or do you just want no artificer splash for repeater?

    if it's the former, can't help you. if it's the latter, than a monkcher could probably fit in shuriken expertise, and you'd be right back to firing multiple shots (provided it works, i don't think anyone's tested and posted results). if you can fit in whirling wrists from shiradi champion, it may actually work.

    (note: once again, i've never done this. it's just a crazy idea for staying at range without using a repeater. in all likelihood, it will turn out to be absolutely atrocious and you'll curse my name forever. but there is that small chance of it turning out to be amazing...)

  19. #19
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    A repeater rogue. Either assassin or mechanic. With the right gear and an aggro magnet you'll never have to go out of ranged.

    If bow damage I'd think some kind of arcane archer barb mix for max bow str damage would be a interesting thing to look at. Still I think you'd end up meleeing often. The firing speed of bows is too slow to expect to kill several mobs quickly unless they are lined up for improved precise shot or you have manyshot going.
    Last edited by Orratti; 12-21-2012 at 09:23 PM.

  20. #20
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    I was considering tring my old AA into one of these type of builds.

    From people who have played both which one does more ranged dps? I am looking at least amount of melee as possible:

    this 12ftr/6 or 7monk/1arti vs a 12 monk/6 ranger/ 2 arti
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