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  1. #1
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    Default Seeking AA build that only uses ranged dps.

    Not an artificer splash please. I want a ranged build that only uses ranged, and maintains reasonable dps with it. Does such a build exist?

  2. #2
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    I've found more success focusing more heavily on the caster side and qualifying for AA. When you go ranged, it's far more effective to range kite through a persistant aoe than it is to range dps tank (stand there taking direct hits) while self healing.

    After playing an artificer, the runearm pretty much puts the dps on my AA to shame even with manyshot and improved precise.

    I know there's some pretty effective high str rangers that can put out some significant damage but it's not something I've ever built.
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    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    It's hard to make an AA that only uses ranged and is still good dps. Some builds come close but even those will melee now and then.

    Mainly because if you run a 10k stars build, it will have 30 seconds every 2 minutes (+10 seconds but that's minor) when both MS and 10k stars are on cooldown: single arrow pew pew is low dps.

    In quests you can get away with choosing the right timing for 10k stars/MS and always having them active in fights, cooldown while moving, waiting etc...vs bosses you might feel the lack of an alternate source of damage tho.

    I'm working on a build that focuses on ranged a lot...but it will still get 50ish str, hopefully, in order to be able to melee when needed. If you're interested: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=400978
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  4. #4
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    Not an artificer splash please. I want a ranged build that only uses ranged, and maintains reasonable dps with it. Does such a build exist?
    If you are unwilling to go with artificer then you really have very limited options. Probably the best are to go with 6 monk levels for 10k stars and build an arcane archer. The advice to do this on a caster character is not necessarily bad. If I were to do it I'd go wizard for the bonus feats that you can use for your metamagics. That lets you put your standard feats towards the arcane archer parts.

    I'd also go half-elf in order to maximize the dilettante (probably rogue) and get access to healing amp and human versatility.

  5. #5
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    Alright, message has been received that ranged on a non artificer build is not viable 100% of the time. In that case, is Helves' Angel still solid, or is there a new ideal choice?

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    Why intentionally limit yourself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    Alright, message has been received that ranged on a non artificer build is not viable 100% of the time. In that case, is Helves' Angel still solid, or is there a new ideal choice?
    There have potential to be obnoxiously high DPS. Still a very solid build in that regard.

    Mostly ranger has some different feature such as better able to build for self healing.
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery amnota's Avatar
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    I used a 1bard/19ranger halfling with full marks for healing for my ranger completionist life. Loved this build...solo healed a reaver at one point and 2 builds like this saved a blown up shroud. Full UMD also.
    Last edited by amnota; 12-12-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    there are plenty my guildy stalksdeath has level 20 ranger. My build is 12 fighter 7 monk 1 artificer, but you could just go with 12 fighter 7 monk 1 druid instead. Honestly on my character I melee 30 seconds in an entire quest. I really just melee for that 30 second to get my ki up, but otherwise range the entire time. I often lead the kill counts and my boss dps with adrenaline and manyshot/10k stars is sick....
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  10. #10
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    It's hard to make an AA that only uses ranged and is still good dps. Some builds come close but even those will melee now and then.
    This is just flat out wrong.
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  11. #11
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    It does not exist currently. Note, 'currently'. Naturally this might change in a future update.

    After having played two different AA builds, I have found that Arcane Archer, as currently implemented, is very weak compared alongside Artificer. Since the AA is only allowed one buff at a time on their arrows, in addition to an extremely limited selection, the AA just can't put out the level of damage that other ranged builds can do. It therefore tends to work best as part of a support class that can do other things.

    I feel a bard tends to be the best candidate for AA currently. The class has far more freedom to experiment than any other, and long as their songs and scroll healing are kept to reasonable expectation, they have many options. Other than that, the class qualifies right out of the gate, and splashes of ranger, monk, rogue or fighter gives give an added edge to the build.

    As a bard, you'll never be expected to put out stellar DPS anyway. But I find the pre works surprisingly well with the class.

  12. #12
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    This is just flat out wrong.
    You just said you melee yourself. Also if you read my whole post, I specified you CAN do good ranged-only dps in quests, but you definitely lose damage in those 40 secs/2 mins vs bosses, compared to someone who can also melee decently. Not to mention you'd also charge ki/vorpal rolls for UF way faster with fists than with single arrow.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  13. #13
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Find ANY build being run by a brand new AA player who hasn't read the forums.


  14. #14
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    You just said you melee yourself. Also if you read my whole post, I specified you CAN do good ranged-only dps in quests, but you definitely lose damage in those 40 secs/2 mins vs bosses, compared to someone who can also melee decently. Not to mention you'd also charge ki/vorpal rolls for UF way faster with fists than with single arrow.
    I can tell from your response that you do not know what you are talking about. Before you hold yourself out there actually try ranging all the time. I sometimes do not melee the entire quest depending on how many shrines there are in a given quest. I only melee to get my ki up there. I do not want to melee or be melee oriented at all.. I do more dps ranging the entire time in Fury of the Wild. I have gtwf but is it a total waste and as they provide more feats plan to respec.
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  15. #15
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I can tell from your response that you do not know what you are talking about. Before you hold yourself out there actually try ranging all the time. I sometimes do not melee the entire quest depending on how many shrines there are in a given quest. I only melee to get my ki up there. I do not want to melee or be melee oriented at all.. I do more dps ranging the entire time in Fury of the Wild. I have gtwf but is it a total waste and as they provide more feats plan to respec.
    I admit I never tried the 12/7/1 version. But I have played many AA builds, and single arrow DPS is always low compared to melee, especially to wraps. I have indeed tried ranging all the time, for example on the 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter, and unless you have a couple of held mobs to attack with IPS your melee will be way more useful in those 30 secs. Not to mention Stunning Fist.

    Also how about Sense Weakness or Tunnel Vision, since we're talking FotW? I think they only apply to melee attacks (but the % portion of sense weakness which should work w/ everything), so how can you say your single arrow dps is higher? How about Mabar wraps in the right situation, will a triple pos bow deal more damage, with single arrow? I don't think so.

    Sure YOUR build might deal more damage with single arrow IF you sort of dumped melee, that doesn't mean it's the best choice, and doesn't mean you can't make a better build with almost same ranged dps and a good melee dps to use during cooldowns. I know very well what I'm talking about...I remember a few discussions about ranged in the past, you've proved to know enough about it but everyone can make mistakes. I'm still convinced 100% ranged < 70% ranged 30% melee. Again, SF, tunnel vision, sense weakness just to name some.

    P.S.: ofc talking about "optimal" build. You can make viable builds where you just pew pew, but they will be improvable. My 1st life ranger pew pewed all the time and it wasn't bad at all, but it got a whole lot better with some trs throwing in melee.
    Last edited by FengXian; 12-13-2012 at 03:34 AM.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  16. #16
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    Alright, message has been received that ranged on a non artificer build is not viable 100% of the time. In that case, is Helves' Angel still solid, or is there a new ideal choice?
    It's solid, especially because it offers decent melee dps and a really good ranged dps every 120 seconds. It's not my main recommendation for a mainly-ranged-AA, but still a nice choice. In particular, I like the fact that both combat styles, ie Khopeshes and Combat Archery'd Bows benefit from the Overwhelming Critical feat. See my post U14-notes in the original Helves Angel thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    But I have played many AA builds, and single arrow DPS is always low compared to melee, especially to wraps.
    While this is true, 10k Stars archers are not faced with this problem so much - you just need to make sure that you don't fire single arrows most of the time.

    Personally, I find that it's quite easy to stay ranged on a 10k Stars archer. Within a window of 120s, you have 20s of manyshot and 2x30s of 10k Stars. The cooldown of the latter is 60s. This means there are only 40s od 120s where you don't deal good ranged damage.
    Take into account that most quests have some areas where you don't fight mobs, but are running, or listening to cutscenes, then you might be able to arrange it so that the 40s are falling into these areas anyway.

    There is one 'issue' while leveling such a build: 10k Stars needs Ki, and ranged attacking does not generate ki. I.e. from time to time, you will need to melee to build up ki. At cap, the GMoF's Enlightenment (with 3 ranks) offers a passive ki generation also for non-pure monks, which literally allows you to stay ranged all the time.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 12-13-2012 at 04:05 AM.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    I have played both Helves Angel and Monkcher (Hong Kong Pewey) recently and they are both great.

    The HA is very high damage Manyshot (especially if you go Kensai Lonbow) then decent melee in between cooldowns.

    The HKP is high damage MS and 10K then a bit of fist action for 30s or so to build up Ki then repeat.

    Standing there just firing normal arrows is not as good dps as melee but can be better in certain situations such as hard to reach mobs, mobs far away, or if a FVS is kiting trash in and out of blade barriers.

  18. #18
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    While this is true, 10k Stars archers are not faced with this problem so much - you just need to make sure that you don't fire single arrows most of the time.

    Personally, I find that it's quite easy to stay ranged on a 10k Stars archer. Within a window of 120s, you have 20s of manyshot and 2x30s of 10k Stars. The cooldown of the latter is 60s. This means there are only 40s od 120s where you don't deal good ranged damage.
    Take into account that most quests have some areas where you don't fight mobs, but are running, or listening to cutscenes, then you might be able to arrange it so that the 40s are falling into these areas anyway.
    Correct, as I said the main problem would be vs bosses.

    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    In quests you can get away with choosing the right timing for 10k stars/MS and always having them active in fights, cooldown while moving, waiting etc...vs bosses you might feel the lack of an alternate source of damage tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by Limey View Post
    Standing there just firing normal arrows is not as good dps as melee but can be better in certain situations such as hard to reach mobs, mobs far away, or if a FVS is kiting trash in and out of blade barriers.
    And I agree with this too.

    Another point: why dumping melee anyway? Stunning fist is amazing. You will want high-ish str for bow damage anyway. Might as well melee when there's a favorable situation, no?
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  19. #19
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    I like the 12 fighter kensei 6 monk 2 arty for only ranged PS.

    Vs trash I'm pretty sure it does at least as much DPS as a melee:
    - can switch target faster
    - just align mobs to double, triple ... damage
    - fight are generally short, meaning while moving to next pack you have time to get your cool down up again if you're not zerging.

    Now vs boss ... that's completely different and we can't avoid the 40s of non boost.
    I estimate a DPS reduction of about 10-20% depending on fortification, for a 2 min fight.
    It takes into account the archer focus stance and precision.

  20. #20
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    I'll try and replace 2 arti with 2 ranger, it nets 3 more feats and a tiny FE bonus (and sprint boost)...granted requires PL:sorc but I think it'd be a better option.

    I think 2 Arti is very nice too for umd and maybe trap skills if you can squeeze them in...x-bow is devastating at low levels too, but they're easy anyway
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

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