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  1. #1
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    Default We don't balance elite quests for solo play. This is by design.

    I've seen this posted a couple times, and in the past by devs, it used to say "the game isn't designed for solo play" . Now it's We don't balance elite quests for solo play. This is by design.

    But one thing that plays on my mind when I look at that is :

    Then why do we have dungeon scaling on elite quests ? (Do we have scaling on elite?) it sure feels like it, EE solo seems to have less mobs than when in a party).

    Also non-Epic Elites have dungeon scaling.

    I am basically looking for clarification on this as at this stage I am unsure, is the game designed for solo play or not ? (I think it is).

  2. #2
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Last I heard, elite's not SUPPOSED to have scaling (though it definitely does). This may or may not be the case now.

    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    That statement is basically to discourage players from complaining that elite quests are too hard to solo.
    And this.
    Last edited by WruntJunior; 12-10-2012 at 10:33 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    That statement is basically to discourage players from complaining that elite quests are too hard to solo.
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  4. #4
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Scaling has slowly increased over my ~2 years playing this game. Normal and hard scale a ton. Mobs/traps sometimes do 2-3x as much damage with full group vs solo. On elite it is less...but it is also elite and those extra 5th and 6th party members better be DAMN good otherwise they are not worth taking.

    Often elite IS easier to solo, particularly when TRing. Epic elites...well easier with 2-3 competent self healers...with 6 it is sometimes a bloodbath.

    It is slowly killing the mindset that pugging/lfming is a good thing to do, which in turn kills off new social connections, friendships, mentorship and partying in general.

    I don't know whether it was a decision or a mistake, but either way it is absolutely noticable and just about every player knows about it, and I feel it is incredibly bad for the long-term health of the game.

  5. #5
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be opposed to the removal of scaling on EE quests.

    It makes it that much more exciting to complete the quest if there is no scaling so you know that you are up against the best the dungeon has got.

    (maybe a checkbox on the door UI to check whether you want no scaling or scaling)

    Could be a way of making things more difficult for those who want it, while still keeping the scaling option for those who don't.

  6. #6
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    I've never expected to, nor been bothered about soloing elite until turbine made the terrible decision to split epic loot into tiers based on the difficulty. I hate this idea, why can't I solo farm my own gear from ordinary chests on lower difficulties without the gear being gimped? Why can't I run through whichever quest it is that drops wizard's ward and farm the chest that drops it until ransacked? If they decide that I can only get the best gear from playing elite, then I do wish that it was soloable, I hate grinding for gear in groups.

  7. #7
    Community Member SemiraLynn's Avatar
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    It is slowly killing the mindset that pugging/lfming is a good thing to do
    Definitely. I mostly just toss up lfms because I'm bored/lonely/whatever. But for those rare times I buckle down and grind xp it's going to be solo. It's much easier and faster.

    I hate this idea, why can't I solo farm my own gear from ordinary chests on lower difficulties without the gear being gimped? Why can't I run through whichever quest it is that drops wizard's ward and farm the chest that drops it until ransacked?
    You need to farm on Epic Elite so that you can get the gear to farm Epic Elite...oh wait...
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    I've never expected to, nor been bothered about soloing elite until turbine made the terrible decision to split epic loot into tiers based on the difficulty. I hate this idea, why can't I solo farm my own gear from ordinary chests on lower difficulties without the gear being gimped? Why can't I run through whichever quest it is that drops wizard's ward and farm the chest that drops it until ransacked? If they decide that I can only get the best gear from playing elite, then I do wish that it was soloable, I hate grinding for gear in groups.
    The EE gear is a minor improvement over EH gear. Much less than the gap between classic epic items and old lootgen + non-epic named items that used to exist. Get the EH gear, set up groups for EE after that.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    Seriously, Elite should not scale. Period.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    I've never expected to, nor been bothered about soloing elite until turbine made the terrible decision to split epic loot into tiers based on the difficulty. I hate this idea, why can't I solo farm my own gear from ordinary chests on lower difficulties without the gear being gimped? Why can't I run through whichever quest it is that drops wizard's ward and farm the chest that drops it until ransacked? If they decide that I can only get the best gear from playing elite, then I do wish that it was soloable, I hate grinding for gear in groups.
    The difference between the EN and EE versions of the new gear is very minimal. The reason why they started this type of named loot system is that there were a lot of people who were complaining that there wasn't enough incentive to run EE instead of just EN/EH. So, now those people have their incentives, and the rest of us have gear that is almost as good, but more in line with the work we put in to get it. I, for one, think it is a wonderful design decision.

  11. #11
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    I've never expected to, nor been bothered about soloing elite until turbine made the terrible decision to split epic loot into tiers based on the difficulty. I hate this idea, why can't I solo farm my own gear from ordinary chests on lower difficulties without the gear being gimped? Why can't I run through whichever quest it is that drops wizard's ward and farm the chest that drops it until ransacked? If they decide that I can only get the best gear from playing elite, then I do wish that it was soloable, I hate grinding for gear in groups.
    there was no incentive to run elite. the grind on normal and hard was boring and if people wanted the best loot or a higher chance at rewards, than running elite gave us reason to run it. i think this makes a lot of sense and i stand behind it. they way i see it is if you want the really cool shinies, than you have to run the toughest difficulty to get the really cool shinies.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post
    .....We don't balance elite quests for solo play. This is by design.....
    Technically that is a true statement, since the truth is that there exists no such thing as "game balance" in DDO at all -- unless you count the arbitrary picking of winners and losers to prop up the lowest common denominator....which apparently many players accept.

  13. #13
    Community Member llyrnionfor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    I've never expected to, nor been bothered about soloing elite until turbine made the terrible decision to split epic loot into tiers based on the difficulty. I hate this idea, why can't I solo farm my own gear from ordinary chests on lower difficulties without the gear being gimped? Why can't I run through whichever quest it is that drops wizard's ward and farm the chest that drops it until ransacked? If they decide that I can only get the best gear from playing elite, then I do wish that it was soloable, I hate grinding for gear in groups.
    "Gimped" is, AFAIK, a bit of an exaggeration. E.g., the difference between EH and EE named gear in the new quests is minimal.

    It does bring us to a funny conclusion - apparently, people who ask for DDO to challenge them, won't go through said challenge without another sort of incentive; if they don't have that incentive, they might as well run in a less challenging mode.

    Which begs the question - how important this "challenge" they speak of really is.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    It is slowly killing the mindset that pugging/lfming is a good thing to do, which in turn kills off new social connections, friendships, mentorship and partying in general.

    I don't know whether it was a decision or a mistake, but either way it is absolutely noticable and just about every player knows about it, and I feel it is incredibly bad for the long-term health of the game.
    Sadly this isnt new

    I have said a year ago or even longer that dungeon scaling in general is a bad thing for a MMO.

    I would even say it was one of the worst decisions Turbine ever made for DDO.

    A game that is about grouping...but is harder in groups then solo..that makes no sense at all for any game.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Cyiwin's Avatar
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    I've often wondered why elite should be scaled differently than normal or hard. Whether players/devs agree or disagree that dungeon scaling should exist why does it change on the elite setting? Was it a middle ground move to try to appeal to soloers and non-soloers?

  16. #16
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Imo, none of the difficulties should scale, but casual and normal should be such that it can be soloed easily. Hard should be soloable only by the best players, elite should be impossible to solo.

  17. #17
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    ddo was made to solo. You ever see people running with a 6 man team in challenges? Hell no why add the extra difficulty to reach the same result.
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  18. #18
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    I really think any attempt for the Devs to claim this game is still meant for group play is at best an attempt to still sound unique.

    It's a great game...all the changes have not bothered me really at all....but this game is definately solo friendly now and I personally do not think it's a bad thing.

    Grouping is fun...but sometimes you just don't want to be bothered with it...back in the day it kind of sucked being pigeon holed into having to group most of the time or having to do stuff so far under level you were not getting very good XP.

    I know it's an MMO.....but I really do not get MMO is meant only for group play....I just get that you are with a live population.

    I think the fact that DDO was very solo unfriendly in the past was not a good thing.

    My only problem currently is that Elite...which I agree should not scale....it's elite...it should be hard.......is that there is also the new players who have no clue who are feeling more and more entitled to doing elite on their first runs through ever...this is definately a giant cramp in the pug scene.

    Very rarely do I play and just wanna get a quest done and will just take whoever and prepare for the ride......it makes it exciting......but a lot of new players are definately being humbled and sometimes berated by unwilling experienced players who they have the misfortune to group with...which in turn can end up being a bad game experience...or even worse...game ending for them...even if temporarily.

    I would like to see some kind of system where new players...talking first time ever players...have to actually work their way to opening elite....instead of just being able to join any elite lfm.

    There are too many players who end up piking a lot of an elite quest....they never end up learning......and this is mostly because a lot of players want to get done as fast as possible......it's not meant for a new or inexperienced at said quest place to be.

    And then there is also the huge issue that now free TP's are tied to favor....too many new players want the quick favor...not the learning experience.

    I have been putting up a lot of LFM for IP Sub-T S/E/R runs and I always have IP in the lfm...I can solo it fine......the amount of people who join, step in and try to find me but can't get past the first 2-3 living spells is quite high...I get a lot of people who join...die 1 minute after they enter and drop group. To me another indication that more and more people are reaching high levels without a clue...even tho those Living Spells are quite nasty.....still they should have some adaptive skills by then or be willing to give it a couple shots at least instead of quitting right away. I find a lot more people quitting after one wipe too...the auto-suceed mentality these days is a bit high as well.
    Last edited by vVvAiaynAvVv; 12-11-2012 at 03:39 AM.

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  19. #19
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Imo, none of the difficulties should scale, but casual and normal should be such that it can be soloed easily. Hard should be soloable only by the best players, elite should be impossible to solo.
    Unless you gate it (multiple players required for levers or the like), making elite impossible to solo would make it impossible for most PUG groups to complete, unfortunately, which is far worse.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Unless you gate it (multiple players required for levers or the like), making elite impossible to solo would make it impossible for most PUG groups to complete, unfortunately, which is far worse.
    Keeping it the same as it is now for 6 players, but not scaling it down for less players would already be a step in the good direction.

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