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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphious View Post
    I used to be in the "more healing for melees" camp, but I've fully changed my mind and think that the existing options are fine, and reasonably well balanced. If you want more healing there are plenty of ways to get it without nonsense frebees like this.
    How again does a new player on a fighter/barbarian keep themselves alive without hundreds of thousands of plat?
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    How again does a new player on a fighter/barbarian keep themselves alive without hundreds of thousands of plat?
    You mean apart from the DDO Store? Turbine made decent pots and put em on the DDO Store.

    What are the chances that they would implement something like this which would reduce their sales?

    Or said Fighter or Barb could invest in UMD and use wands and scrolls.

    Or said Fighter or Barb could buy some pots.

    Or said Fighter or Barb could buy a Hireling.

    Or said Fighter or Barb could actually group with people.

  3. #43
    Community Member Full_Bleed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    How again does a new player on a fighter/barbarian keep themselves alive without hundreds of thousands of plat?
    1) Hirelings are an option. Low level hirelings are cheap. And it has never been easier for new players to make money in the game without breaking a sweat.

    2) This is a MMO for a reason. If you're going to play a class with dependencies look to play *with* other classes with dependencies you offset. It's kind of the point of having the multi-player/grouping option in an RPG game to begin with. This isn't a design flaw. It's a core design concept.

  4. #44
    The Hatchery Antiguo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    The reason they are called "pure melee" is because they aren't supposed to be self-sufficient. They are supposed to play a "pure" role (Melee) and be so good at it that others that aren't pure need and want them. Reliance on one another is core the the whole concept of most RPG's (D&D in particular.)

    DDO might be a better computer game for being so solo friendly, but it's not a better RPG for it. When all the roles become homogenized and self-sufficiency is a requirement/entitlement, the roles these classes once played becomes diminished and we move further and further from the game it purports to be.
    But the fact is you can still be self sufficient whit a pure melee, paladins (and rangers) need way more things than to keep an artificial self-healing tax to pure meleers, hireling+barbarian is 1000 times better than hireling+paladin, i say lets help A BIT the pure melee classes whit no-plat self healing and lets help A LOT hybrid meleers improving their DPS, buffing and/or control as i said. Give me a reason whit my paladin to use my spell points other than self heal, please.

    What i like from this idea is you can control it whit ease: making only base constitution count, adding enhacements lines to improve it, giving different classes different enhacements to toy whit it, change the %of health you get, making it depend on heal and repair skills....

  5. #45
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphious View Post
    If you want more healing there are plenty of ways to get it without nonsense frebees like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    How again does a new player on a fighter/barbarian keep themselves alive without hundreds of thousands of plat?
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    You mean apart from the DDO Store? Turbine made decent pots and put em on the DDO Store.
    That's really what it comes down to. You can dilute the PnP elements further, you can encourage P2W, or you can make the game unfriendly to new players.

    Just grouping with other people, as Full_Bleed suggested would be great, except for the prevalence of BYOH nearly to the exclusion of other types of groups.

  6. #46
    Community Member ristretto93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    The reason they are called "pure melee" is because they aren't supposed to be self-sufficient.
    No. Nope.

    There is no need to think of self healing as the only thing that makes one self sufficient. A rogue is still a pure melee class imo because that is how they do their damage and their most important role - but played well they (imo) are one of the most self-sufficient classes in the game. Just saying, maybe you should keep your definition of self sufficient more broad...


    As far as healing surges though - honestly one of the first things to turn me off from 4th ed. was this mechanic. I am not a fan.
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  7. #47
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Would that be in addition to, or replacing vampiric weapons, regeneration items, and ED abilities, to name a few things with opportunity costs that any (well, non PM, and non-ranged in the case of the vampirics) character can use?

  8. #48
    The Hatchery Antiguo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    regeneration items
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    -breathes-

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  9. #49
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejafu View Post
    It's time to bring Healing Surges into the game
    No.
    No, it is not.
    53461

  10. #50
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiguo View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    -breathes-

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    What. The mechanic is there, the refusal to actually implement the things with a high enough HP/S to be relevant for most is the only flaw in the implementation. Or, y'know, folks could keep asking for new systems instead of holding turbine to keeping old ones relevant. That's worked out so very well so far.
    Last edited by Scraap; 12-12-2012 at 10:28 AM.

  11. #51
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    doesnt this already exist in some ED or other?
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    You mean apart from the DDO Store? Turbine made decent pots and put em on the DDO Store.

    What are the chances that they would implement something like this which would reduce their sales?

    Or said Fighter or Barb could invest in UMD and use wands and scrolls.

    Or said Fighter or Barb could buy some pots.

    Or said Fighter or Barb could buy a Hireling.

    Or said Fighter or Barb could actually group with people.
    And new players know this?
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    Just grouping with other people, as Full_Bleed suggested would be great, except for the prevalence of BYOH nearly to the exclusion of other types of groups.
    Yup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  14. #54
    Community Member Soulken's Avatar
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    AS bad ideas go this is one of the worst.

    When I duel someone I like to dual wield. with my rouge wearing rogue.

  15. #55
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    There is NO FORCED COOPERATION in this game. Casters simply DO NOT NEED melees in DDO.

    The argument that melees should continue to need casters is dumb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    doesnt this already exist in some ED or other?
    Sure. There are all kind of options for self-healing at high levels of the game, no question. Or low levels, if you know enough about the game and have decent resources.

    Look folks, I've been playing this game for several years now. This isn't about what players like me need nearly as much as this is about making the game more accessible for new players.

    That being said... If it also allows me to make a pure horc fighter or barbarian without having to dump all of my skill points into UMD, grind out huge amounts of Silver Flame favor, give up Fate twists, or run around with a divine strapped to my back, I'm not going to complain. Making the ability have a relatively long cool-down and limited charges means it wouldn't come close to negating the usefulness of those things, but it would go a long way towards eliminating them as a necessity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulken View Post
    AS bad ideas go this is one of the worst.
    Seriously? It's one thing to disagree with it, but one of the worst?

    I just... never mind. Internet hyperbole. Got it.
    Last edited by dejafu; 12-12-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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    Turning Ghostbane into a meme is, in my book, the best thing to happen to DDO in awhile.

  17. #57
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    There is NO FORCED COOPERATION in this game. Casters simply DO NOT NEED melees in DDO.

    The argument that melees should continue to need casters is dumb.
    I agree, and...

    Ive often stated that even if they gave pure fighters and barbs an unlimited usage heal spell they would still be less powerful than casters, as we could still clear out the vast majority of quests faster on a caster than on a melee.

    The issue is what exactly is acceptable to put into the game to give pure melee more self healing options. I dont buy the "melee should make a sacrifice to gain healing" argument in the context of this game, because arcane casters sure as heck didnt have to make that sacrifice.

    My suggestion was to make heal kits work like they did in NWN where they heal a secific amount per heal skill mod, with a cooldown long enough where they cant be spammed and short enough to still be effective (like 10-15 sec give or take). I see other people wanting to involve heal kits as well as it would make them, and the heal skill, actually usefull.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #58
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Nope, not needed. One of the things that makes DDO different is that either you make characters that only survive with a certain amount of synergy with their teammates or you build versatile characters that can handle it all themselves with some loss in peak effectiveness on some fronts.

    Would the OP also be in favor of giving Clerics and Favored Souls Kensai surges so they can even more effectively DPS in melee when they need to?

    Or giving other classes a Coup-de-grace like abilitys (aka Assasinate)?
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  19. #59
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    Healing skill + kit can be used to temporarily raise your healing amp for the next heal recieved? Drinking a healing potion would then mimic a "healing surge"
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  20. #60
    The Hatchery dejafu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    Would the OP also be in favor of giving Clerics and Favored Souls Kensai surges so they can even more effectively DPS in melee when they need to?
    Sounds like a perfectly reasonable ability for a melee-oriented PrE for either of those two classes. Giving those classes a similar ability still wouldn't put them on par with a Kensai for raw melee damage, just like giving a fighter healing surges wouldn't put them anywhere close to the self-healing ability of a cleric, favored soul, or even a paladin.

    I don't fear class miscegenation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos000 View Post
    Healing skill + kit can be used to temporarily raise your healing amp for the next heal recieved? Drinking a healing potion would then mimic a "healing surge"
    I like that idea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Turning Ghostbane into a meme is, in my book, the best thing to happen to DDO in awhile.

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