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  1. #61
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Gotta say I feel somehow related to this topic. There's some odd build hate, some AA hate, some "the game is too easy"...well I'm playing a 12 sorc/6 ranger/2 monk atm. Since I got a few people asking about the build I might even post it one of these days^^

    I first rolled it because I needed sorc PL, and I had an xp-stone to use somewhere, plus little time to play. I wanted to TR soon after 20, just after giving Shiradi a try. Surprisingly, the build proved actually decent in end game, and I still had not enough time to tr fast enough, so I kept it for another while.

    Now it has good melee with tenser's, 50ish str, extended rage/haste (sometimes last longer than un-extended pure caster's), displacement, pally active PL, ram's, GTWF and other stuff...
    Full AA line with IPS etc...Water Savant II with good caster level from PrE, equip and EDs, and decent spell power on ice spells. Evasion with 40+ reflex depending on ED, heal scrolls, DD/teleport. DoTs+melee+manyshot make it great vs bosses, Ice storm+stay frosty+IPS is nice vs trash.
    Plus depending on ED it can have some CC+ranged damage from shiradi, great aoe damage from Draconic, EiN from GMoF or Unbridled Fury Many Shot + other dps goodies from FotW.

    I've almost never had problems being accepted in pugs (which surprised me a bit at first since I'm aware that the build is veery questionable at first glance). I'm having lots of fun since I can play as melee, ranged and/or sorc depending on ED and situation, and I don't have to play a forum build (nothing against taking builds from forums but some people tend to think that those are the only possible builds; some people just copy/paste them w/o knowing how to play them, which is even worse.)

    Another point is that the game IS much easier than it used to be...which can be annoying, but is also an opportunity to try out fun, still viable builds that wouldn't be possible in a harder end game, probably. I've learned not to judge the book from the cover

    I also don't have problems with people who actually try something very original and unusual, even if it turns into a failure, provided they are good players. A build can have a bad moment in a certain level range, or can just turn out to be a failed experiment that still has to reach 20 somehow in order to TR etc...personally I love the challenge of rolling something out of ordinary AND make it work ofc. If it doesn't work, tho, I think one should have the decency of not being a burden to the party: run Hard or EH if you see you can't contribute enough on Elite or EE
    Last edited by FengXian; 12-12-2012 at 06:10 AM.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  2. #62
    Community Member Boneshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    You need to go back now and read my original post to the thread. Only this time you need to read the stuff in the wall of text.

    My point isn't about defending any build. It is about respecting people and understanding that if it doesn't cause the group to fail -- and, honestly, it takes a lot for just 1 character to cause a whole group to fail -- then what's the big deal.

    I'll take the axe throwing 6 CON cleric AND the TWF elf barbarian over the great DPS AA that has to criticize people for their builds.

    Oh, and the bastard sword and board rogue can come too. I"m sure we'll all have fun, laugh at our misfortune and still find a way to complete the quest.
    +1. I definitely prefer optimal people, playing sub-optimal characters, over the reverse of that.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    The game is big.

    Some of the odd-on-the-surface builds may have a workable plan behind them if you push into it ... especially for someone looking to get a past life on a class they hate ;-) I'm running an abomination for a pally past life right now, and honestly I think my ranger PL is going to be just about as screwy.

    We had a shield-using ranger a few years back on G-Land that received much ... verbal focus.
    That guy was legendary.

    To be fair, I had a huge problem with him because he would not take advice and often linked stuff he had and talked about how awesome the build was.

    I like grouping with new people. Heck, even if you want to make a not great character and keep it that way - but don't start beating you chest about playing a suboptimal build... UNLESS you rolled a gimp. That's just funny. This guy just got on my nerves. To be fair, though, when 95% of the server has you squelched, I guess you get mad at the remaining 5 who can hear you.

  4. #64
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    That guy was legendary.
    He's still around too. I thought there was some sort of bet he lost and he was supposed to delete the toon, but no ;-)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  5. #65
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    Has anyone else encountered a really strange or absolutely horrible build, lately? I seem to be seeing far too many...there needs to be some way to get people to read the class/race forums more often.
    Some people like a challenge? I guess kudos to him. In fact. If he was fully decked out with endgame gear irregardless of his class choices, in an optimized destiny he could end up being more effective than some pure classes out there.

    I'm guessing maybe he is an old school 3.5 edition gamer. I'm not sure if anyone remembers the 1 level in every class build? it was pretty awesome
    Daishado

    "drink triple ... see double ... act single! uh oh wife aggro" *hides*

  6. #66
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    I've been experimenting with a build destined to be 1 druid/7 rogue acrobat/12 fighter kensai quarterstaff melee with starting 6 CON. The build is currently at L10 and should hit 11 late tonight or sometime tomorrow morning depending on how much game time I get in.

    I routinely join groups and try to pick out the ones doing elite content. I've died in 3 quests thus far and have been questioned about my low hit points on a couple of occasions. I've only not been at or near the top of the kill count in one group running a total of 3 quests -- one of those being part of the 3 times I died.

    I'm using only gear I find or that I can buy from the auction house plus quarterstaves that I have saved up. Right now that is the Staff of Nat Gann. In a couple of levels I'll get a Staff of the Shadow. Eventually it will be a Dreamspitter.

    Even with those saved up and available I'm using loot gen great axes most of the time. Meaning that I could have bypassed the staff twink and probably done little to change the character (except, perhaps, to make it kill better).

    Quite honestly, screwball builds on first life characters even with intentionally bad stat choices are very easy to level. And, by staying in the fight (as indicated by being at or near the lead in kills) means that I'm not just piking my way up. (Something that those who have grouped with me can confirm.)

    The point of this long text is this: DDO really does not require top flight builds for a player to be successful. This on-going project will eventually reach L20 and start in on epic content. And, if the current game experience continues I will have no more problems there than I encounter now.

    Of course, that could turn out completely wrong -- which is the purpose of the experiment. But, at the moment it does not look that way.

    Edit: Just a quick update -- made L11. Died in Tempest Spine at the final fight to Chain Lightning. Wiped in elite VoN3 when mage pulled all three red names just before the final fight (was a party wipe). Soloed thru VoN3 at L10 for the final bubble to L11 after the wipe. All that on a 6 base CON with +2 tome, +5 CON item and +1 ship buff (for functionally 14 CON). In the VoN3 solo I did all optionals along the way. If I can do that then pretty much anyone can succeed in a group that is playing even a little bit smartly (ie, not trying to range or spell pull in elite VoN3 but body pulling -- which, fwiw, is what I did on the solo run).
    Last edited by Therigar; 12-19-2012 at 11:42 PM.

  7. #67
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    I have also grouped with a finesse barbarian. He was a TR.
    Praise the Dark Six and pass the heals to pure melees.
    Full feat tree; Cannith; change; merger; evil; win; minmaxing; FotM; deja vu; Kobolds.
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  8. #68
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    This game has an advantage over all other games. The combination of builds is second to none.

    We are able to create builds that some might think as crazy. But the person behind the key board can make them into brilliant characters because the person controlling them has the talent to do it. Regardless of how crazy it might seem.
    The Blood of the Red Dragon

  9. #69
    Community Member Mr_Ed7's Avatar
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    Default well said

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I welcome anyone who wants to join me for any quest.

    I care about your personality and attitude, not your build etc.
    Come along, be nice, play well with others... and preferably do not give up when it gets tough.

    I like to do challenging quests though. they are tough.
    a true gimp may die in there with me. He may die a lot! He may become very frustrated.

    That is on him. His choice. If I had an LFM up, it was very honest about what we were doing and on what difficulty. It probably also said that I was taking the first five people to join.

    That may be five gimps. And it may mean no healer too.
    I was honest. So if you bring a gimp with no way to self heal, it is not my fault if you die.

    But I will also help you.
    I will do what my character can to keep you alive and res you if I can too.

    I will never critisize your build.
    (I have been guilty of typing a subtle joke about someone after they said "we" needed a healer though. )
    or your playstyle... gear etc.

    I will naturally assume that if you are dying often, that you are learning your own lessons along the way.

    If you "ASK" me for advice, I will give it.
    in general terms,... I will not tell you exactly how to build your character.
    I will tell you what gear and stats I have (if you ask).

    But honestly, tactics matter more than build or gear any day.
    Agro management most of all.

    I could care less about your HP. Class split. Uber gear... etc.

    If you bring a stack of pots, that tells me more than anything else about how well you plan to contribute to my group.

    Bring pots or wands (or scrolls).
    Cures, removals, restores...etc.

    If at all possible bring a way to rez others.

    And bring a nice friendly "can do" attitude.

    ... and we'll do just fine, or at least have fun trying.
    Well said.
    The One True Fighter/Wizard Father of the Alliance General Orcneas of ORC

    http://darkside.guildportal.com http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174849

  10. #70
    Community Member Mr_Ed7's Avatar
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    Default Did I ever tell you....

    Did I ever tell you about my Fighter/Magic-user?
    The One True Fighter/Wizard Father of the Alliance General Orcneas of ORC

    http://darkside.guildportal.com http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174849

  11. #71
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7 View Post
    Did I ever tell you about my Fighter/Magic-user?
    Was it uber and killed everything without needing any other party members except to carry its ego? Or was the world too small for its ego so that you had to carry it in an extra dimensional space that was limitless in capacity?

    Did you solo every adventure and allow other people to sit at the entrance way while you berated them for how totally gimped they were?

    Cuz, if your fighter/magic-user wasn't at least all that then we probably don't need to hear about it.

  12. #72
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
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    I just hope the enhancement pass comes soon.

    When Epic Destinies went live, there was a proliferation of novel builds, and the elitists had no idea what to make of it all...

    When the enhancement pass goes live, I'm going to LMAO at all the elitists as their little heads pop from trying to process the new reality. My demented little Drow Monk ought to be fully kitted out by then, and WE SHALL SEE WHO LAUGHS LAST.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

    (Did I say that out loud?)
    Give a man a fish, and he demands two more tomorrow.
    Teach a man to fish, and he'll leave to find somebody who'll just give him a fish.
    Beat him unconscious with the fish, and it's comedy.

  13. #73
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    I don't think anything actually needs to be done about poorly thought out builds as "poorly thought out" is a manner of opinion.

    Case and point.

    Rogue built for straight dps and optimizing sneak attack, int 13 for improved feint. skill priority: bluff, spot, umd, balance, tumble, jump, open lock, and diplo.

    Any divine caster built to stack damage at the expense of investing anything to their healing potential. - DPS druid, Evocation FvS (quickened heal for self, no mass healing on healing list...)

    Battlecleric more battle than cleric

    Any arcane that is built to melee with tensers

    DPS Paladins (because this is a class built for tanking...)

    Self healing Barbarians (because dps then suffers...)

    Best part of the game is that people have options and aren't pigeonholed to a "role" based on class. They can choose to be effective in the role they chose for themselves.

    I may laugh at the rogue with 120 hp at lvl 17 that claimed they didn't need hp because they had "high saves" (*ding* disintegrate, the ultimate 'do you have enough hp for this difficulty' check) but they have every right to join any group willing to take them. Hell, I'll even take them once and so long as they are self sufficient enough to keep themselves up for the most part without dying to something like a single hit. 1 or two potions or wand whips shouldn't be too hard.
    Daishado

    "drink triple ... see double ... act single! uh oh wife aggro" *hides*

  14. #74
    Community Member Bigrtt's Avatar
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    Some people want to be different, some want to try something different and some just plain don't care what others think of their build.

    This is the reason why I TR'ed into a Dwarf artificer when they came out, and at the time I believe I was the only dwarf arti on the Cannith server for at least a day or 2. Everyone asked me why I went dwarf and not WF, I was told endlessly that I'll never self heal as good as a WF and I've made bad choices. None of it phased me, and at end game I see my choice as being a good one. I die just like everyone else does, but I see WF artis dying far more often than I do, whether it be because they think they can handle more mobs with instant heals or not, I don't know. I also know of very few artis who will drop their crossbow and start healing the party/raid, I know of only 1 other arti who carries the CSW and remove curse admixture to help out raids.


    I've no problem with people playing the 'weird' builds or stepping out and experimenting for themself rather than follow a forum build. Infact I think they're getting more out of the game than most people are because they don't have to think about farming that SoS shard once they cap, they only need to focus on leveling up and enjoying their build.

    Also have no issue with them being in the group I'm in. I enjoy seeing how they perform, and like somebody else said, there's alot of the strange builds out there that have completely blown me away by how good they are. If they're not a complete and total burden on the group, I don't care how they do.

    I'm also of the opinion that the player can make a build shine, or make it look like garbage. We don't need to look far for theory to be proved right. Have a look at the ranged toons that can employ the use of IPS and those who can't.

  15. #75
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigrtt View Post
    Everyone asked me why I went dwarf and not WF, I was told endlessly that I'll never self heal as good as a WF and I've made bad choices.
    I see this happen a lot, sometimes to me, and it always irritates me.

    What is it that makes people think everyone else in the group is eager to hear their opinion regarding their build?

    If someone is paying my subscription, they can tell me how I should build my characters. If not, they are just rude if they insist on giving me unsolicited advice.


    It also makes me laugh how often the morons who denigrate other people for non-cookie-cutter builds and for not min-maxing and for not taking "accepted" class splits are also the same people who then cry constantly that they are so freakin' uber the game is too easy.
    "Whaaaaa! I have thirty past lives and stacks of epic gear in every slot and my min-max wizard has 56 INT and I only play in guild runs with people with at least two years experience and I never PUG and I am so freaking awesome this game is too easy and now it sucks! Hey, look! That guy over there made a dwarf artificer instead of a warforged artificer! What a noob! I'd better go tell him how poor his choice of race was!"
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

  16. #76
    Community Member pyntsized's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    I know. It's crazy that some folks might just like to try things out. Freaks.

    You misspelled "anything".
    Ditto. I mean, I remember this one time I played with a guy who had an extra thumb. Another time, I played with a guy whose right arm was where his left leg should have been, and he didn't even have a left leg!

    Or did you mean characters?
    +1 for the comment on badly built players. Laughed so hard.
    Light path Metaru
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    Dear Very Concerned Customer,
    Buy a rez cake.

  17. #77
    Hero Nahual's Avatar
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    I think it was Mykhe who said it years ago:


    "Do whatever you want, just dont suck at it."


    To me that is it. If you build for dps then do it. If you build for traps, then get all
    the traps, you can instakill them I hope to see mobs dieing. Other than that the way
    the levels are taken it shouldnt matter.
    Kasik ~20 Rogue~ Fui 18/2 brb/ftr ~ Emmeryl 20 Clr Hilcias 20 Sorc
    Cool kids play on Mabar!

  18. #78
    Community Member hermespan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    ...because I've seen some pretty horrific ones, lately. Don't people bother to research builds, anymore, instead of almost intentionally gimping themselves? I don't like to use the term gimp but...honestly, some people just don't get it, even after you try to explain things to them. Yes, you're supposed to have fun but there's a bright, neon red line between fun and useful. It might not for you, but it bothers me that people with the strangest, most poorly-thought-out builds think they're amazing.

    I try to be nice to everybody, but sometimes it's like watching the most horrible audition on American Idol, where these people think they can sing but they're absolutely terrible. Where can you find drugs that would make one so delusional?

    Just today I was hard farming a few runs of PoP in gianthold. I wasn't the party leader so I couldn't see classes until they actually came close, and a rogue joined with a ki bar. I thought, 'okay, maybe he's doing something with dark monk and rogue sneak attacks', nothing wrong with that, I've seen it before. Then he entered the quest.

    10 rogue / 4 fighter / 2 monk
    Small shield + bastard sword + random loot medium armor

    I had found the definition of the word 'speechless'. Upon asking about his unique build, he stated he dealt awesome damage, and that he took every feat that pertained to shields, saying it gave him a ton of doublestrike, and he was building for PRR. Kill counts don't mean much, but in a party with a ranger AA (myself, and I have to say I do excellent dps with the right build), a clueless wizard, a THF fighter, and a healing-specced druid, he had the lowest amount for every run we did by a loooong shot. I'm talking 1-2 kills per run. You'd think after 16 levels somebody would have seriously told him, 'no, this isn't good, don't do that'. After a few attempts at explaining his build, him linking his god-awful bastard swords and shield, and a rather hilarious comment from the fighter, I gave up and left him to his delusions of grandeur.

    Something needs to be done about this. I don't usually concern myself with ignorant people who refuse to listen to reason but I mean...wow...I'm still flabbergasted at the thought of somebody thinking this build would work.

    Has anyone else encountered a really strange or absolutely horrible build, lately? I seem to be seeing far too many...there needs to be some way to get people to read the class/race forums more often.
    Requisite bacon analogy:

    The monk class is a lot like bacon. It goes pretty well with lots of stuff. Even so you probably don't want bacon in your ice cream. However some people love bacon ice cream. That doesn't mean you have to like it. However you can't really knock someone that does.

    You are basically saying that bacon ice cream is wrong and you have to have something wrong with you to like it.

    If they get enjoyment out of it and no one else is harmed in the process, the problem is really in your head.

    All of that being said. He might be going Fighter/Rogue/Monk 12/6/2 which could be pretty potent, at least if he was using handwraps and TWF, went Grand Master of Flowers and took everything is nothing.

    Stunning Fist + evasion + handwraps + AC + light monk play style + traps + sneak attack + assassin I + Kensai II and high enough UMD to use any scroll in the game. Tactics and utility. He could solo anything and have enough feats from fighter to have substantial dps.

    Think outside the box. He might have been using s&b and gave you that stuffin about S&B just to get a rise out of you because you questioned the wisdom (no pun intended) of his class mixture.

    I enjoy such antics occasionally :-p

  19. #79
    Community Member Dieterstrife's Avatar
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    I love odd builds. I always enjoy running with them.

    Until you try and convince me that you're top end dps regardless of the situation, or you are the best tank in the game, or you are blah blah blah.

    Novel builds are fun. Egos are not.

    And no, I don't care that your a pure cha paladin with dual elyd's edges, you're not top dps and you're not the best of anything.
    De'Corenai of Argonessen. If you've seen me, you know what I'm talking about.

  20. #80
    Hero DanteEnFuego's Avatar
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    I just ran screaming through the Marketplace to House J to The Reincarnation Man as Ranger 10/Sorc 10. I couldn't TR fast enough. People were laughing at me. Cosmetic pets flung poo at me. The Drowning Sorrows Tavern locked its doors. I am just glad they didn't see me take the Athletic Feat while power LRing to TR again...

    /shame

    Happily back to pure Sorc for another life...
    "The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves." Niccolò Machiavelli
    Thelanis: Arbix Completionist (23rd Life), ArbySoul, ArbyBarb, ArbyPriest, Arbificer etc.

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