Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 235
  1. #61
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    654

    Default this made me laugh

    Quote Originally Posted by FengXian View Post
    Except they're not. Countless vets have left the game. I guess we're still riding the MotU wave of new subscribers. But one thing is getting people to join, another is making them stay. And we have way more bugs now that a year ago or two, by the way.

    I recall someone saying at a certaing point that the DDO code is so entangled that there's no way to come even close to "bug-free". In other words the overall situation can only get worse. Maybe it's time for Turbine to do something about it. A big bug clearing update or w/e...but then they got people supporting them no matter what, even after THREE servers crashed (and Cannith was nearly unplayable for a while too)...
    Lol we have way more bugs then a year ago, cracks me up we also have way more content then a year ago, hmmm.

    To all those who call people who enjoy the game Fanboys or fanbois, its a bit lame, people defend what they like. Personally, the game lives up to the expectations that I have, I play I have fun it costs me very little each month to do so. The expansion pack has added hours of entertainment, definatly worth the cost for me.
    ashlick , bizkit, boobooface, breeewind, breunorson, crystalin, dreamless, drunkenorc, earthborn, elation, elazibeth, firesavant, ftwjust, gabrrielle, hiting, idelisa, inactive,jessamyne, keeblerorc,keighra, killia, layniebug, lmyc, mealltach, nicholete, ravinclaws, sapphiire, tairrdelbach, teenny

  2. #62
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    G-Land - Brisbane
    Posts
    442

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabaon View Post
    Entitlement much?
    Is it 'entitlement' if you have paid nearly $80 for something that doesn't work properly ?

    I am finding that as time goes on, more and more is 'broken' and less is getting fixed.

  3. #63
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pompei
    Posts
    1,311

    Post PLSPM Models - Slight offtopic

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    The bubble chart was totally awesome. Can you explain how complaints lead to customer loyalty?
    This is a model wih some priori hypotesis: one of them is that when the "value" for the Customer Satisfaction raises the "value" for Complaints decreases. Yes you heard me well i said "value", because with ECSI model you can estimate a "value" for those "latent concepts" and some coefficients which makes you understand the strength and the sign of the relations between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Is it in the manner of how those complaints are handled?
    The model doesn't tell you how to deal with complaints, when estimated it simply tells you if complaints depends from the Customer Satisfaction and how intense is this relation. Usually it is always strong, but there might be some applications i don't know of in which maybe low ESI index doesn't automatically lead to high number of complaints (for example if you think of applying this kind of model to some kind of activity in which the customer encounters a merchant just once or rarely twice, maybe when you are abroad for holidays, in that case complaints could be low just because you don't have occasion to make them known at that merchant).

    ECSI models are estimated through structured questionnaires performed on a representative sample of the population of customers of the company for which the survey is carried out. They are based on structural equation modeling (in this particular case we use a Partlial Least Squares Path Modeling). With them you can estimate the effects and the outcomes of company policies regarding the Customer Satisfaction. This is a sample application i found googling if anyone wants to know more about it.

    I'm making a little program right now for my 5-years Laurea in Statistics which enables you to estimate this kind of models with Excel . Almost finished it.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 12-09-2012 at 06:19 AM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  4. #64
    Founder & Hero
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moosehead Lake
    Posts
    23,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    This is a model wih some priori hypotesis: one of them is that when the "value" for the Customer Satisfaction raises the "value" for Complaints decreases. Yes you heard me well i said "value", because with ECSI model you can estimate a "value" for those "latent concepts" and some coefficients which makes you understand the strength and the sign of the relations between them.


    The model doesn't tell you how to deal with complaints, when estimated it simply tells you if complaints depends from the Customer Satisfaction and how intense is this relation. Usually it is always strong, but there might be some applications i don't know of in which maybe low ESI index doesn't automatically lead to high number of complaints (for example if you think of applying this kind of model to some kind of activity in which the customer encounters a merchant just once or rarely twice, maybe when you are abroad for holidays, in that case complaints could be low just because you don't have occasion to make them known at that merchant).

    ECSI models are estimated through structured questionnaires performed on a representative sample of the population of customers of the company for which the survey is carried out. They are based on structural equation modeling (in this particular case we use a Partlial Least Squares Path Modeling). With them you can estimate the effects and the outcomes of company policies regarding the Customer Satisfaction. This is a sample application i found googling if anyone wants to know more about it.

    I'm making a little program right now for my 5-years Laurea in Statistics which enables you to estimate this kind of models with Excel . Almost finished it.
    Ugh statistics have to take another course in that this spring Masters level safety statistics.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  5. #65
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Shenzhen, China
    Posts
    2,718

    Default

    It is up to the customer to research the product and decide whether or not they want to purchase it.

    It is up to turbine to decide whether or not it is in their best interests to sell a product that is not total dung.

  6. #66
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    I fixed the typo
    hahaha!

    very nice!

  7. #67
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    It is supposed to mean that the amount of loyalty has a direct relation to the number of complaints.

    However, per the flow, all complaints lead to loyalty. The chart is very bad, honestly. Everything leads to a loyal customer.


    Quite a few. They weren't closed systems, they were open air.
    No, the chart was totally awesome. Anyone who would post a bubble chart as evidence, especially one where both complaints and satisfaction led to customer loyalty, must be so uber cool that they wear Doc Marten's with jean shorts.

    I personally have a real problem seeing complaints lead to customer loyalty, unless they were addressed well. Isn't the restaurant moto you get one customer complaint voiced to you, that you have the chance to turn around, for every 4 complaints that are not so voiced? By people who'd rather just tell their friends. Something like that.

    So it's nice to see a bubble chart telling me how people really work, when they're bubbles.

  8. #68
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    This is a model wih some priori hypotesis: one of them is that when the "value" for the Customer Satisfaction raises the "value" for Complaints decreases. Yes you heard me well i said "value", because with ECSI model you can estimate a "value" for those "latent concepts" and some coefficients which makes you understand the strength and the sign of the relations between them.


    The model doesn't tell you how to deal with complaints, when estimated it simply tells you if complaints depends from the Customer Satisfaction and how intense is this relation. Usually it is always strong, but there might be some applications i don't know of in which maybe low ESI index doesn't automatically lead to high number of complaints (for example if you think of applying this kind of model to some kind of activity in which the customer encounters a merchant just once or rarely twice, maybe when you are abroad for holidays, in that case complaints could be low just because you don't have occasion to make them known at that merchant).

    ECSI models are estimated through structured questionnaires performed on a representative sample of the population of customers of the company for which the survey is carried out. They are based on structural equation modeling (in this particular case we use a Partlial Least Squares Path Modeling). With them you can estimate the effects and the outcomes of company policies regarding the Customer Satisfaction. This is a sample application i found googling if anyone wants to know more about it.

    I'm making a little program right now for my 5-years Laurea in Statistics which enables you to estimate this kind of models with Excel . Almost finished it.
    Thanks for your in-depth reply!

    Wow. Ok. I have some problems with that model.

    First is the "structured questionnaires" that produced it. Of course people are going to complain when they're asked what the problems are! That should not be a surprise.

    Second, the model necessitates that people care so much about the product that they complain - and this would, admittedly, lead to repetitive complaints. If they didn't really care, they'd still complain initially, but eventually they wouldn't because they'd have forgotten why they bothered with the product. Or their memory would be reduced to "yeah, I tried X but it was a mistake. Now I only do Y."

    Third, if complaints are listened to, with appropriate feedback, they can become constructive. If they're not addressed, they can become malicious and damaging - like commiserating makes situations worse.

    Fourth, people tend to complain if others are complaining; i.e., when complaining becomes the way to communicate, complaining will be the normal form of expression. We're social beings. We like to communicate.

    Hence, I see customer complaints as being a bit more complex than the bubble chart. But I love bubble charts, it was awesome.

  9. #69
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    Lol we have way more bugs then a year ago, cracks me up we also have way more content then a year ago, hmmm.

    To all those who call people who enjoy the game Fanboys or fanbois, its a bit lame, people defend what they like. Personally, the game lives up to the expectations that I have, I play I have fun it costs me very little each month to do so. The expansion pack has added hours of entertainment, definatly worth the cost for me.
    Point being quantity over quality? 'cause I wasn't even talking about content-specific bugs. The game costs me time, not just (some) money. And it's annoying throwing away even 30 mins because the lag freezes the whole party or because a mob is stuck deep into some wall and you can't even find it let alone kill it.

    I enjoy the game too, but I enjoy it much less than I should, and could be, if some of the BIG bugs were fixed. Keep the pally ED bugged, I'm using it anyway, that's not the sort of stuff I'm complaining about.
    Cannith - Juzam, Water Savant II Ranger 6 Monk 2 AA/ Orocarn, Stalwart Defender III Monk 2 / Taigongwanng, Sorc TRing - Guardiani di Eberron

  10. #70
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabaon View Post
    Last I checked the game DOES indeed function. Like I said, bugs happen and not only do they happen, but there will always be a bug somewhere in the game these days. Why? Because games are more complex now than they were 25+ years ago. You want no bugs? Go play Pong.

    The reason I used the word "entitlement" is that you sound like you "deserve" something. I use 'entitlement" because it's more common use these days isn't a word for ownership, but more as an attitude. When something isn't to your liking, you feel "entitled" to complain about it because it didn't meet your standards. And your intial comments lends to me to believe that's your attitude in life. Start shrugging off minor issues and move on. Enjoy what does work, and wait patiantly for the resolution. It will eventually happen.
    I find this entire thread extremely funny. I came back after quitting shortly after the expansion to see if the quality has actually improved any. And I find that a few issues have been cleaned up, but it is still a pretty massive tangle of twisted wires. And the 'amazing expansion' that I put over $100 for a game that I loved is still not worth playing. Maybe in a couple more updates....

    And rather than recognizing that in the current state of things there are some very massive problems with the game, instead of wanting to improve the game, the fans are attacking other fans who are voicing concerns about the state of things. It is not 'entitlement' to point out that a product is not meeting expectations. Complaining about the flaws in a product shows that you care about it. Zealously mocking anyone who dares say anything 'bad' just lets the flaws continue to fester, driving away even more people, letting the product dwindle.

  11. #71
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pompei
    Posts
    1,311

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Thanks for your in-depth reply! ...
    No problem with that i like statistics and i'm keen with DDO Dps as well .

    The model, as any model of course, just depict you the reality in a simple way: what you deal with that information is another problem, in this case it would be a Turbine (or Warner Bros) problem. Info is always a great power especialy for companies and can lead to good actions if properly used. Always remember that to know more or less how things are going (usually that's manager's thinking) is quite different to know how much bad or good they are and in what measure the other factors influence them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    First is the "structured questionnaires" that produced it. Of course people are going to complain when they're asked what the problems are! That should not be a surprise.
    "Strucuted Questionnaire" is an instrument specifically aimed at gathering data from the social world and anything that touches the social can influence it in the very moment of the survey: there are several methods, that involves both how you make the questionnaire sections and how you ask the questions, that tries to make this kind of instrument "neutral".

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Second, the model necessitates that people care so much about the product that they complain - and this would, admittedly, lead to repetitive complaints. If they didn't really care, they'd still complain initially, but eventually they wouldn't because they'd have forgotten why they bothered with the product. Or their memory would be reduced to "yeah, I tried X but it was a mistake. Now I only do Y."

    ...

    Fourth, people tend to complain if others are complaining; i.e., when complaining becomes the way to communicate, complaining will be the normal form of expression. We're social beings. We like to communicate.

    Hence, I see customer complaints as being a bit more complex than the bubble chart. But I love bubble charts, it was awesome.
    First of all there are a lot of problems with statistical data (especially with that gathered from surverys): contamination, correlations, missing data are some of them and can be dealt with.

    For this specific case, you want to know the general customer's satisfaction, therefore you don't include in your sample just the people who complains but as well the ones who don't. It's who plan the survey who decide who is in it and who's out of it and this is generally done (in the simplest case) with a random sample, customer just have to decide if he wants to answer or not (in which case there's always a backup plan for who's keen with statistics). The random sampling can be done in different ways and aims to minimize the probabily that anything estimated through it will be wrong and therefore maximize reliability of the survey results itself.

    Of course we can setup a different analysis if you want to know more just about complaints but that's a different story. ECSI is a Customer Satisfaction centric model and complaints are just a part of that.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 12-09-2012 at 02:43 PM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  12. #72
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    First of all there are a lot of problems with statistical data (especially with that gathered from surverys): contamination, correlations, missing data are some of them and can be dealt with.
    Here is one of many good introductory works on the subject: Working With Qualitative Data (Gibson, Brown 2009)

  13. #73
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pompei
    Posts
    1,311

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    Here is one of many good introductory works on the subject: Working With Qualitative Data (Gibson, Brown 2009)
    Bookmarked, thanks . Not sure but one of my profs could have named it during a lesson some months ago.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  14. #74
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Philly Area
    Posts
    2,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    It is up to the customer to research the product and decide whether or not they want to purchase it.

    It is up to turbine to decide whether or not it is in their best interests to sell a product that is not total dung.
    I agree, except we had no idea that the expansion was going to be so broekn upon release. There were a lot of incentives offered to buy in advance when people knew nothing and not much information upon actual release either if you did wait. So, yes generally the consumer should be able to research and decide, but not in this case.
    Sarlona Server Mythical:
    Kluege Fixer- Baddabing - Majuscule Kluege - Klueje - Klooj Maker - Dundar Kluege - Superkluege

  15. #75
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    I agree, except we had no idea that the expansion was going to be so broekn upon release. There were a lot of incentives offered to buy in advance when people knew nothing and not much information upon actual release either if you did wait. So, yes generally the consumer should be able to research and decide, but not in this case.
    Lammania.

  16. #76
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Philly Area
    Posts
    2,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    Lammania.
    Not when they started collecting pre-purchase. Actually, that was the only way to get the preview. You cannot get preview access until you bought the expansion. And if you waited, you saw a version on Lammania that was not the same that was implemented on live. In particular, I remember shadow dancer's executioners shot working, then it was pulled totally and hasn't worked since. The raid was taken down within days. So on, so forth. All of this was not seen in the paid for preview.
    Sarlona Server Mythical:
    Kluege Fixer- Baddabing - Majuscule Kluege - Klueje - Klooj Maker - Dundar Kluege - Superkluege

  17. #77
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    Not when they started collecting pre-purchase. Actually, that was the only way to get the preview. You cannot get preview access until you bought the expansion. And if you waited, you saw a version on Lammania that was not the same that was implemented on live. In particular, I remember shadow dancer's executioners shot working, then it was pulled totally and hasn't worked since. The raid was taken down within days. So on, so forth. All of this was not seen in the paid for preview.
    Well, first of all, access to the CLOSED beta was restricted, and one of the ways to get access was to pre-purchase. Later, they did an OPEN beta in which anyone could access the new content and try it out before buying it. If you were too impatient to wait for the open beta phase, that your problem, not Turbine's. There were multiple versions of the beta build on lammania, same as with every single update they ever do. That is not new, nor is it anything special. Things change, get updated, bugs actually get fixed. Sometimes, those fixes cause new, other bugs somewhere else. Yes, there were issues with the raid when it first went live, but Turbine fixed them, and the raid can actually be completed as intended now. This is an example of Turbine actually fixing something that was wrong. I can't speak to the executioners shot ability, as my rogue is a melee, but I do know that executioners strike works just fine. Out of all of your posts in this thread too date, I have seen a total of 2 specific complaints about something not working: 1-The raid was broken when it launched, and then was fixed. 2-executioners shot doesn't work.

  18. #78
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Philly Area
    Posts
    2,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    Well, first of all, access to the CLOSED beta was restricted, and one of the ways to get access was to pre-purchase. Later, they did an OPEN beta in which anyone could access the new content and try it out before buying it. If you were too impatient to wait for the open beta phase, that your problem, not Turbine's. There were multiple versions of the beta build on lammania, same as with every single update they ever do. That is not new, nor is it anything special. Things change, get updated, bugs actually get fixed. Sometimes, those fixes cause new, other bugs somewhere else. Yes, there were issues with the raid when it first went live, but Turbine fixed them, and the raid can actually be completed as intended now. This is an example of Turbine actually fixing something that was wrong. I can't speak to the executioners shot ability, as my rogue is a melee, but I do know that executioners strike works just fine. Out of all of your posts in this thread too date, I have seen a total of 2 specific complaints about something not working: 1-The raid was broken when it launched, and then was fixed. 2-executioners shot doesn't work.
    Again, talking about the ability for the consumer to research as that was the response of what I posted, but thanks for adding all the non releated points.
    Sarlona Server Mythical:
    Kluege Fixer- Baddabing - Majuscule Kluege - Klueje - Klooj Maker - Dundar Kluege - Superkluege

  19. #79
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fco-karatekid View Post
    Let me help you - see link in my sig.

    EDIT: Go ahead and scroll through it - we'll wait a bit while you read them...

    Working around any 1 or 5 of these may be reasonable, but when every time you turn around during a play session you run into numerous, then yah - OP has a right to complain.

    Those who "...never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, run into any of these..." (because you KNOW you're gonna post right after this) - maybe you're not watching, zerging a bit more than the rest of us, OR you've become so willing to accept it you subconsciously block them out. But there is a HIGH number of defects in this product, and that number is increasing with every revision.
    Looked a lot of these over before getting bored. Personally I haven't noticed a lot of these bugs. Not because I "Blocked them out" as you seem to claim, but because I really haven't seen these bugs in action. A LOT of these bugs are for classes I don't play, or abilities I don't use in ED's. I understand that I'm not everyone, but what do you expect Turbine to do. They CAN'T just sit back and fix the bugs. It's a business, and as business they have to make MONEY.

    Without the money they earn from new content, bugged or not, they can't continue to function. WB isn't just gonna say "Hey Turbine, you aren't pulling in profits, we'll just keep you afloat with our large sums of cash because we're nice". The problem is without WB's involvement, we might not have gotten this far with the game in the first place, and then DDO would be shut down.

    And the game hasn't become totally unplayable. Otherwise NO one would be playing, which just isn't true. So... yeah while it might be buggy. The game is ok.

    Edit: I would LOVE for the game to be improved, for the bugs to be fixed, and everyone be happy. But I'm also a realist, who knows THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Why do I know this? Because They are probably working with outdated/more complex coding. You can code 50 lines of code to do the same thing as 1 line of code. Not only with outdated coding, there can be mistakes that the developers might not even realize existing within the code, be it from themselves or other developers. And becuase odd things connect with each other in the DDO code, fixing one, more than likely, will cause another bug.
    Last edited by Kabaon; 12-09-2012 at 04:45 PM.


    Karnasis (Human Wizard, Pale Master, Level 27), Taldall (Half-Orc, Monk- Perpetually abandoned)

  20. #80
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Since theres nothing specific in the OP, ima ask once, what specific things the OP is referring to. What thing(s) from the expansion are still not working that make the entire expansion not payable to play?
    Still curious about this ... OP, what bug(s) make the expansion unplayable, broken, or not worth your money?

    Ahh (edit) I just reread and saw you named executioners shot, sorry.
    Khyber Server -- New Aundair

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload