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  1. #1
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    Default So why was "Monkey Grip" removed from Legendary Dreadnaught?

    Just curious.

    On the beta forums it was talked about but it never made it to live (I have no idea if it ever made it to Alpha even).

    Monkey-grip allowed you to wield a two-handed weapons (like an ESoS) in your main-hand and either have a shield equipped or a 1-handed weapon in the off-hand. As mentioned above it never made it to live.

    Thinking back on this, how OP would this have been really? We got a one-handed ESoS (Balizarde) in CiTW . . . would being able to wield an ESoS in your main-hand really have been any more over-powering especially since you'd be stuck with one ED?
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  2. #2
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    They'd have no excuse to stop wizards using a staff and an orb if monkey grip made it live.

    Edit: This was a joke.
    Last edited by FrozenNova; 12-07-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    They'd have no excuse to stop wizards using a staff and an orb if monkey grip made it live.
    If that Wizard wanted to gimp himself by going legendary Dreadnaught I'm not sure I see an issue here.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    They'd have no excuse to stop wizards using a staff and an orb if monkey grip made it live.
    so.... class restrict? Make it so only a pure melee are the only ones who can use it. (coding issue?)

  5. #5

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    Does LD actually need a boost at this point?
    Last edited by SableShadow; 12-07-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SableShadow View Post
    Does LD actually need a boost at this point?
    Not saying it does, not arguing for it's inclusion. Was curious as to if the reason was a technical one or a game balance one.

    I always thought it'd be cool if a bastard sword could be used like it is in PnP, either 1 or two-handed. A working monkey-grip is one more step closer to that.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    so.... class restrict? Make it so only a pure melee are the only ones who can use it. (coding issue?)
    My Wraithblade is a pure melee
    theres no need to discriminate Spellswords, just because your ape**** for brains barbarian cant melee and cast at the same time :P
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    If that Wizard wanted to gimp himself by going legendary Dreadnaught I'm not sure I see an issue here.
    When asked why casters couldn't use a staff in one hand and an orb in the offhand, the response from FotS was something like "Why can't you use an eSoS in the main hand and a khop in the offhand?".

    Casters wouldn't be going LD, they'd be demanding a similar feature in their EDs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    I always thought it'd be cool if a bastard sword could be used like it is in PnP, either 1 or two-handed. A working monkey-grip is one more step closer to that.
    Yah. I've always wanted "dual weapons" (staves and whatnot) to have the option to use TWF instead of THF.
    Last edited by SableShadow; 12-07-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    ESoS... Need I say more?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    ESoS... Need I say more?
    Balizarde. The existence of this weapon (and drow khopeshes) makes the fear of a one-handed ESoS, restricted to one particular destiny, completely unfounded.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    [snip]
    Thinking back on this, how OP would this have been really?[snip]
    Depending on how it were to be implemented it may range from "pretty gimpy" to "worth investing in depending on build and gear but not OP".
    Would it count as a THF weapon for the purpose of gracing hits?
    Would it add double PA and 50% str like THF does?
    Are there any penalties?
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    I am betting it was a purely Technical issue and Game balance had nothing to do with it, after all, no one really knows how OPed something can go till it goes live and gets brutalized by the Munchkins.

  13. #13

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    I think it was more work than it was worth.

    History has shown that new weapon animations are something Turbine has had a devil of a time with so I imagine they figured the risk of trying to do animations for those was not worth the fun that would result.

    Still, it would be a cool feat for the game if they could get it together.
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  14. #14

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    Monkey grip is considered one of the most powerful melee feats in 3rd edition.
    Do a search on character optimization forum and see what those experts have to say about it.
    All the most awesume builds use it.

    Granting the ability to make ANY two handed weapon ever made in the game to be dual wielded
    puts huge restrictions upon game design.

    It also closes forever possible balance between TWF and THF.


    (Just like we will probably never see the feat group that converts character levels into caster levels.
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  15. #15
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    it was never proposed as a Feat for DDO. Its was part of the LD ED.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    i don't think it ever was part of legendary dreadnought, it was just something people wanted to see.

    it can't very well be removed if it was never added in the first place, and so far as i am aware, it was never added. i don't think it was even suggested by a dev that it might be added at any point. i'm not certain where you got this idea that it was removed, but i really don't think that's what happened.

  17. #17
    Community Member pelaaja's Avatar
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    I'd be fine with the Monkey Grip feat - as an epic feat which needs 23 STR and GTWF to achieve (maybe also OTWF?). Very big requirements needs great rewards. Besides, if using a THF one-handedly, they'd lose the double PA, but probably keep the glancing blows. They'd probably have a penalty to attack speed (just a minor, like 5% penalty) and attack penalty.

    The reason I say this because not only it needs heavy feat investment (especially if you also want GTHF for bigger glancing damage), but also the GTWF line, and a possible sacrifise of OC.

    But, it's just me.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    History has shown that new weapon animations are something Turbine has had a devil of a time with so I imagine they figured the risk of trying to do animations for those was not worth the fun that would result.
    ^ Nailed it!

    Meshing the new U14 physics engine hitboxes with a totally new weapon animation would have been... difficult. If getting stuck in a wall is bothersome, imagine swinging a 2-Hander with one hand and twisting into another dimension.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Monkey grip is considered one of the most powerful melee feats in 3rd edition.
    If you do the math on it, its not really that good with the exception that if you combine it with other effects that increase the weapon dice steps (such as enlarging the character and starting with a large race and so on). The dice step progression in 3E is rather broken in that it doesn't go up evenly. The -2 to hit, unlike in ddo, is essentially -10% average damage where the dice step increase is often only 1.5 or so average damage per hit which is often less than 10% of a typical hit.

    So it is good for finding some ways to bend the rules and exacerbate a rather broken aspect of 3e rules, but on its face its not really as good as many other combat feats you can take.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I am betting it was a purely Technical issue and Game balance had nothing to do with it, after all, no one really knows how OPed something can go till it goes live and gets brutalized by the Munchkins.
    And then has umpteen threads posted bragging/complaining about how great/OP it is.

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