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  1. #1
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    Default Bastard sword does it work with two handed fighting feats?

    Decided to create a Paladin bastard sword user...based on getting Templars Retribution as a drop on another toon..seemed thematically neat so why not. Noticed that bastard swords now procure glancing blows like two handed weapons if you are proficient so I was wandering if the two handed fighting feats would work and be worth taking?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenStormclaw View Post
    ...so I was wandering if the two handed fighting feats would work and be worth taking?

    Yes, but only if you use it S&B or with no weapon in your off hand. TWF with bastard swords will not grant any glancing blows.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Probably not worth taking on a feat starved S&B paladin. Depends on your build really.
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

    (Fighter->Fighter->Fighter->Monk->Monk->Barbarian->Paladin->Ranger)

  4. #4
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    Probably not worth taking on a feat starved S&B paladin. Depends on your build really.

    Agreed. A Dwarf Paladin that gets the Dwarven Axe for free is a good build choice for this type of thing. (DA's get the Glancing Blow bonus when used alone as well) Otherwise you need to go Human for the extra Feat to hope to fit it in.
    Last edited by Ganolyn; 12-06-2012 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Added info.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    This is similar to another thread on building a sword and board paladin where there was a lot of discussion on bastard sword and the THF feat line.

    As has been correctly stated, the THF feat line does work with bastard swords (and also dwarven axes) but only if fighting one-handed. Go to two-weapon fighting and you lose the glancing blows and the THF feat line is meaningless. So, alone or with a shield equipped, yes the THF line works. Pair with another weapon and it stops working.

    The great debate at present time is whether the THF line is worth more than the Cleave line. The general consensus is that Cleave is better (the whole line). I tend to agree with that point of view.

  6. #6
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    So it works but cleave is better. This was my thinking as well. Is staying pure Pali worth it or would 18/2 Pali/ftr be better as I could grab the THF feats from the fighter bonus feats while picking up the cleave line with the regular feats.

    For the record the build is human sword and board (I did read that only get glancding blows when its the only weapon).

  7. #7
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Bastard swords are one handed... why would you think two handed feats would work with it?

  8. #8
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    Bastard swords are one handed... why would you think two handed feats would work with it?
    Well if you knew anything about Bastard Swords you would know that the reason they are called that is they can be used one OR two handed and you could easily switch in battle, as each way of handling the sword had advantages and disadvantages

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    Bastard swords are one handed... why would you think two handed feats would work with it?
    Because Two handed weapons grant glancing blows. the THF feats improve these glancing blows. Bastard swords (and apparently D. WarAxes) are (for whatever reason) treated as a two handed weapons for the purpose of whether or not they proc glancing blows. thus, since the only thing THF feats do is improve glancing blows, one has reason to think they could improve the glancing blows awarded to Bastards sword and D. WarArxes.

    NOTE: I haven't actually tested in game any of this, so feel free to correct me if I did make a mistake. I haven't made a THF or S&B build before, though I might end up doing so soon out of interest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Well if you knew anything about Bastard Swords you would know that the reason they are called that is they can be used one OR two handed and you could easily switch in battle, as each way of handling the sword had advantages and disadvantages
    To add, in 3.5 edition of pnp (which is to me, where this game evolved from) a bastard sword could be used as a two handed weapon without penalty if they had martial weapon proficiency.

  11. #11
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Well if you knew anything about Bastard Swords you would know that the reason they are called that is they can be used one OR two handed and you could easily switch in battle, as each way of handling the sword had advantages and disadvantages
    That's PnP. This is DDO. Unless some one who has proof shows otherwise, I'll go on seeing Bastards as a 1 hand weapon, (DAs too and I use DAs on my dorf fighter) Without some first hand knowledge on the way the game mechanics work on this, I wouldn't waste the feats on it.

  12. #12
    Community Member MrPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    That's PnP. This is DDO. Unless some one who has proof shows otherwise, I'll go on seeing Bastards as a 1 hand weapon, (DAs too and I use DAs on my dorf fighter) Without some first hand knowledge on the way the game mechanics work on this, I wouldn't waste the feats on it.
    I'm confused - was your intention to say that Bastard swords (and by extension Dwarven axes) aren't affected by two-handed fighting feats, or that they are only one-handed weapons?

    because this was updated way back in Update 5 - http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...ate_5_Official
    and http://ddowiki.com/page/Bastard_Sword and from in-game testing myself that they do work with two-handed fighting feats, if held one-handedly or with a shield.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    That's PnP. This is DDO. Unless some one who has proof shows otherwise, I'll go on seeing Bastards as a 1 hand weapon, (DAs too and I use DAs on my dorf fighter) Without some first hand knowledge on the way the game mechanics work on this, I wouldn't waste the feats on it.
    Two handed feats have improved glancing blows with bastard sword and dwarven axes since update 5. (June 2010)

    EDIT: Bah! darn ninja!
    Last edited by Krelar; 12-06-2012 at 09:15 PM.

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenStormclaw View Post
    Is staying pure Pali worth it or would 18/2 Pali/ftr be better as I could grab the THF feats from the fighter bonus feats while picking up the cleave line with the regular feats.
    You can see my take on b.sword-wielding S&B pal 18 / ftr 2 here. It's DPS-focused as much as possible, which means I didn't have any room for metamagic feats.

  15. #15
    Community Member Xynot2's Avatar
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    Ok- I read it. Is it still WAI or something needing to be added to the uh oh list? Cuz I had an extra feat on a melee S&B build that I could actually use it on if it's still working right. Any know?

    And yes, I was referring to Bastards and Dwarvens only working as 1 handed. Was not aware of the info in the links posted.

  16. #16
    Community Member MrPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynot2 View Post
    Ok- I read it. Is it still WAI or something needing to be added to the uh oh list? Cuz I had an extra feat on a melee S&B build that I could actually use it on if it's still working right. Any know?

    And yes, I was referring to Bastards and Dwarvens only working as 1 handed. Was not aware of the info in the links posted.
    totally WAI use to your heart's content

  17. #17
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    Thanks all for the replies. Bah! To much to consider. Capstone seems cool but adding 2 fighter get me two extra and much needed feats.

  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    A pure human pally gets 10 feats; that's enough for Power Atk, Toughness, THF x3, b.sword, IC:Slash, and both Shield Masteries, with 1 left over for, say, Quicken, Extend, or Combat Expertise. Though then the question becomes what order to take them in, since something has to get backloaded in the process.

    Alternatively, you could try Ralmeth's feat list here.

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