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  1. #61
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    And one more effect they need to think hard about: XP boost pots.

    I buy xp boost pots for ED farming. This makes perfect sense because you get the biggest bang for your buck, short intense bursts of xp over the course of a relatively few hours of questing. It is precisely the kind of questing that XP boost pots are for.

    Would I keep my level 25 in xp boost pots for the entire 16 million slog if it was just a grind for month after month after month? Are you kidding?

    And here we thought they were doing everything they could think of to increase sales. Not in this case, apparently.
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  2. #62
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Does Optional xp diminish through repetition after XP cap? If not it sounds from the description like it might be salvagable as a good farming quest.

    However I doubt they'd go to this much trouble if they intended it to be salvagable.
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  3. #63

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    Changes like this would not bother me if they would make changes to the system that are stupid and hurt players ablity to have fun.

    The main one to me right this second is ED xping, you have to weaken your charchter in order to xp your other ED or TR or Just deal without twist. I think this system is dumb, but will anything get change about it for long long long time? I doubt it, though the people did not rush and grind These quest that gave good xp per minute will have to find another quest or grind longer. Woot. Increase the fun and let use xp in any ED just need a certain level to unlock the next one. Open up the abitly to twist more things at higher level and attain more twist points. The system seemed fun until I realize how restricted it really was, now it just a system that had potential. (Rush to market.)

    Some believe having your charcter in a "FANTASY GAME" having to work through ED makes sense. It is a fantasy game none of this stuff makes sense in reality. Who really can do 80% of the things that happen in this game. Make it fun and the grind will seem less like a grind. Common we have raid that has these little doggies that almost any player charcter can slap down with a wet paper noodle beating the big bad boss, just because the Developlers wanted a certain raid mechinic. I understand reasonable grind, but at least let players have fun while grinding the game, don't make use play weaker toons to grind the game.

    This is why changes like this get on my nerve, so worried about fixing things that advantage to players, but really slow fixing things that annoying for players. Last you still have not thought players would use these tatics to beat a quest? Have you guys even been paying attention over the years? There been real simple solution to making people doing optional for long long long time. Make the base xp worth a lot less and make the optionals mutliply the xp you get, kind like the stars do in challenges . Example: quest completion with no optionals 1500 base xp, with 1 1500*1.5, with 2 1500*2.0, and so on. Now it worth doing the optionals. Import that all bonuse apply off the new base xp for doing optionals. Make killing bonus for completed quest worth more? 20, 40, 60, and so on. So by making your base xp worth less and making more attractive to kill and do optionals you get more people doing them. What a suprise. Really not rocket science, but hey you guys really now better. All you have to do is keep twinking the system until doing optionals worth doing.

    Stop punishing players and start rewarding them for doing extra objectives.

  4. #64
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Let's not forget, adjusting this xp downward is easy as pie, and can be done quickly and independently of any grand formulas.

    But to up the xp in Amrath or the challenges requires superhuman complex formulas that only Einstein's zombie can decipher and Patton's wraith can implement. So sorry, we can't get to those anytime soon.
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  5. #65
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Surely they will compensate by fixing the Challenges exp
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    Surely they will compensate by fixing the Challenges exp
    Or Shavarath's.

  7. #67
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I wanted to get unused character and play CC wizard at endgame. But its now impossible to level destinies at any acceptable nor reasonable rate, so why even bother with trying? If your wizard is not yet maxed in destinies, its better to delete him and roll barbarian- EE can't be done without lots of spell pen, avaible pretty much only from TRs and EDs, and at hard you can just play the most gimped character without need to stay awake.

    Why even log in, if I know my character's only way to progress is removed?

  8. #68
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Here is the reason why this change was made now: it engenders emotional debate. Why is this important? It distracts from Turbine completely ignoring the chat bug and (maybe) halfway addressing the stuck bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido
    Only in the context of 2 minute/25k runs would anyone believe "most" players would grind the 10+ million XP so they could twist 4-2-1 instead of a modest 2-1 or 1-1-1. Turbine surely didn't factor in that kind of xp rate; under normal circumstances most players would look at the necessary grind and decide to pass, or only chew off a little, much like players who are willing to TR twice for a 36 point build but who forgo the completionist grind.

    The difference is that there is no real shortcut to completionist like there has been for 18 fate points. People see the path to 18 fate and it falls on the "doable" side of their line and like you say, human nature kicks in and they get to work on doing it.

    Could be wrong, just more guessing re: Turbine's design intentions.
    A second life character is 3.1m heroic XP, which at 3:1 works out to just under 10m epic XP. Now consider that you can run VoN 3 or Wiz King or whichever FR quest forever instead of muddling around in Necro 3, Amrath, House C quests et al. It's still very easy to max twist points relative to TRing even twice.

  9. #69
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    Only in the context of 2 minute/25k runs would anyone believe "most" players would grind the 10+ million XP so they could twist 4-2-1 instead of a modest 2-1 or 1-1-1. Turbine surely didn't factor in that kind of xp rate; under normal circumstances most players would look at the necessary grind and decide to pass, or only chew off a little, much like players who are willing to TR twice for a 36 point build but who forgo the completionist grind.

    The difference is that there is no real shortcut to completionist like there has been for 18 fate points. People see the path to 18 fate and it falls on the "doable" side of their line and like you say, human nature kicks in and they get to work on doing it.

    Could be wrong, just more guessing re: Turbine's design intentions.
    Good post... And exactly right... I'm good at determining cost/benefit ratios, and I determined at first that 2/1/1 is very doable (especially since you can get those fate points doing the couple of EDs that work well for your character), but that 4/2/1 was 10x more effort for a small gain.

    Plus that 10x more effort would all be in the EDs that DON'T work for your character...

    But then I discovered Impossible Demands farming... I've been doing about 10 runs a night (anymore would drive me crazy), and I've gotten one of my guys up to 4/1/1. Like you said, with near-exploit level farming, it became "doable" in my mind.

    Still, I'm glad to see them fix it... People getting all their EDs done in a week was a bit much... Not only was there nothing to shoot for anymore, but that kind of grinding obviously destroyed even the most hardy of powergamers... I can't imagine NOT quitting a game after a week of that.

    But it would have been nice if they fixed the broken ED progression system at the same time they fixed Rusted Blades... How about letting us collect exp at 25% for a different ED than maxed out one we're using?

    Of course, they've left Impossible Demands alone, so I guess we can all still grind that.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post

    Of course, they've left Impossible Demands alone, so I guess we can all still grind that.
    Fight Club!

    But yes, it's whack-a-mole. There is no point nerfing 1 quest's XP when we have other options that people will hopefully be smart enough not to talk about.

    Then again Turbine can just run the stats on missions run the most.

    The nerfing will continue until morale improves, or the company runs out of money.
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  11. #71
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Fight Club!

    But yes, it's whack-a-mole. There is no point nerfing 1 quest's XP when we have other options that people will hopefully be smart enough not to talk about.

    Then again Turbine can just run the stats on missions run the most.

    The nerfing will continue until morale improves, or the company runs out of money.
    My take on this is a more massive epic xp change is in the works, but not for a bit; hence, they decided to release this rusted blade xp nerf in advance because it is the biggest current culprit. It would be cool if they made the epic xp change by update 17, but I sure would not hold my breath on that one.
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  12. #72
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    That Rep thing is annoying, there should be a better system for giving -rep, anyone can look at your post and give you a -rep with complete anonymity just because they dont like your opinion on a post.
    Isn't that the point??? Also, your are incorrect....NOT anyone can give neg rep, you have to ahve enough pos rep of your own before you can neg rep someone.

    I prefer the devs spend coding time on the game and not on revamping the rep system.
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  13. #73
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    Let's not forget, adjusting this xp downward is easy as pie, and can be done quickly and independently of any grand formulas.

    But to up the xp in Amrath or the challenges requires superhuman complex formulas that only Einstein's zombie can decipher and Patton's wraith can implement. So sorry, we can't get to those anytime soon.
    One of those supports players buying more XP potions, and the other does not. People that have been supporting p2w lately popping into threads asking me why I care about it because it doesnt affect me if someone else uses it just had their entire arguement dismantled right before their eyes each and every time they nerf XP, which affects everyone.

    Einsteins zombies are too busy figuring out what the next marketing demographics will be for the next batch of game balance circumvention mechanisms that will be for sale in the future to worry about ramping up XP in quests that have needed it for years now.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #74
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any numbers in the thread (could have missed it), has anyone looked to see what the actual change was?

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  15. #75
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    Isn't that the point??? Also, your are incorrect....NOT anyone can give neg rep, you have to ahve enough pos rep of your own before you can neg rep someone.

    I prefer the devs spend coding time on the game and not on revamping the rep system.
    They should kill that rep system, then they never have to spend time on it again.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    One of those supports players buying more XP potions, and the other does not. People that have been supporting p2w lately popping into threads asking me why I care about it because it doesnt affect me if someone else uses it just had their entire arguement dismantled right before their eyes each and every time they nerf XP, which affects everyone.

    Einsteins zombies are too busy figuring out what the next marketing demographics will be for the next batch of game balance circumvention mechanisms that will be for sale in the future to worry about ramping up XP in quests that have needed it for years now.
    They increased the amount of xp the quest gives, but just nerfed the exploit. The above falls completely apart in that light.


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  17. #77
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    They should kill that rep system, then they never have to spend time on it again.
    Different group of developers, so the game would not be effected.

    But I do agree, the rep system and myddo.com should just go. They both are utter failures and myddo.com has never been made to work properly.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alavatar View Post
    First rule of Fight Club ...
    ...probably should have been "Don't sleep with the wife of the heavyweight champion of the world."

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  19. #79
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Anytime that the community at large decides that the only acceptable method for completion of a certain quest involves running to the end as quickly as possible.... fighting as little as possible.... and completing the quest in 1-2 minutes....

    (and repeating for the next hour...)

    ... it is a bad thing IMO.

    It takes all fun from the average guy who wants to actually do the quest, more or less, as intended. The guy who wants to enjoy doing the quest.


    I never join any quest where I am expected to stand somewhere and wait... and not touch anything.

    I do not join quests to avoid half or more of the quest.

    I join to go in, with six people, who I expect wil alll be contributing in some manner.
    I join to enjoy the quest. Usually by killing monsters.
    to enjoy the quest more or less as the designers intended it to be enjoyed.

    So... once a large enough portion of the community decide that the quest should only be run for quick reward.... and NEVER... to be savored or actually run as intended. (zerge is way different from just doing the minumum for completion as effortlessly as possible btw)
    .... those people totally ruin any fun for the rest of us, who might actually want to do a quest.... oh.... for fun... rather than quick reward.


    Anyway.
    I think the proposed changes sounds fabulous!

    I realise it will actually have little effect on the determined grinders.
    But it looks to my like it will encourage people to at least do the optionals.... which will greatly add to my enjoyment of this quest.

    For me... the chance to go into a quest. And do all the optionals. And even gain huge XP for doing them! Sounds great.

    Sounds way more fun than a 1-2 minute run where people are told to stand around and wait.
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  20. #80
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Of course, they've left Impossible Demands alone, so I guess we can all still grind that.
    Until enough people post about it, sure!

    What's sad is that it is very little fun for me to play my high level guy while he's gimped.

    Epic Destinies are alone in this mechanic. To purposely reduce the power of your build just to gain a tiny increment of power after a million or two MORE xp is kind of an absurd way to do things.

    With the power differential between epic hard and epic elite, the new easy-to-obtain loot, and the way the destiny system works, there is very little for someone like myself to do at cap anymore.

    TR? No.. this gives a fractional amount of power as compared to what it used to at end game.
    Gear? No.. most of the new stuff is only situational, and is not that much more powerful to consider grinding for it. The really good stuff like the SOS is still a lottery, one I won't bother with.
    The old epic gear is nearly worthless now, as the random lootgen surpasses most of it.
    Grind destinies? No.. the 16 million xp to gain a tiny bit of power in the end and having to level in an off-destiny that gimps me after I've worked so hard to achieve the first makes me not want to bother.


    At LEAST if I didn't have to reduce my builds power considerably to further gain destiny levels (and that small power increase) there would be something to work towards. But as it stands now? It falls in the "unfun" category.

    I can either choose to throw away epic xp or level in something that I have marginal use for.
    Either is a bad choice, from a fun standpoint.


    Here's a thought for the devs:
    Why not just allow us to keep whatever destiny we want active, and allow us to choose whatever destiny we want assign xp to? That way we're not supressing all the abilities we have just worked so hard to achieve.
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