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  1. #1

    Default Periodic rant...Spell Traps

    I have no problem with the traps in the other parts of the game. The big one in Cabal is hilarious even when you get killed by it. As aggravating as they can occasionally be, they can be dealt with by means other than "bring a trapper".

    But I've completely had it up to my eyebrows with spell traps.

    They sit in the middle of narrow hallways so they cannot be avoided. They pulse continually so you can't time them. They inflict a totally unavoidable slow effect that gives no save and ignores freedom of movement (a spell which explicitly states that it should be protecting you from this exact kind of thing).

    Something needs to give. I'd honestly be happy enough just letting FoM block the slow as it should be doing. But making them less obnoxious beyond that would also be quite welcome.
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    combine all that with fact that most of them have a search/disable radius that is about .5 inches wider than their damage trigger radius, and it can be a severe PITA to deal with them, even when you can disable them.

  3. #3
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    They sit in the middle of narrow hallways so they cannot be avoided. They pulse continually so you can't time them. They inflict a totally unavoidable slow effect that gives no save and ignores freedom of movement (a spell which explicitly states that it should be protecting you from this exact kind of thing).
    It's so special, haste doesn't counter it. Maybe we need "special haste"?
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    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    I am not a big fan of them either but I do think that a full nerf of them by making FOM work would be basically making them a non-factor and you may as well just not have traps at all.

    As they are it is manageable on eHard to just blow through them, heal on the other side and wait the 20secs or so for slow to wear off. Basically about how much time you would lose with a trapper dealing with them.

    That said - has anyone tried zipping through them after dropping a globe of invulnerability on them and/or using a Mantle of the Worldshaper or other spell absorb item. I haven't thought of those options til now (usually preoccupied killing not analysing things) but I am sure others have.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Seventoe's Avatar
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    Traps in Eberron are fun, and add to the flavor of dungeon-crawling. In Faerun they feel like they were pulled out of a generic obstacle grab bag.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Desdemonte's Avatar
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    /signed

    Spellwards are as obnoxious as Wisps, Air Ele knockdown spam and canid trip spam.

    They all need to be reworked!

  7. #7
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Yes. Please take anything out of the game that is troublesome.

    I would like to think of my enemies as total idiots. I should be able to storm in and kill them without any obstacles.

    And please keep spreading them out into small groups of about 4-6. I would not know what to do if 20 or 30 attacked at once.








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    Mantle of the worldshaper, pale lavender ioun stone, random gen spell-proofing items, scarab of spell absorption.

    Any of those will counter the slow effect. Avoid being hit by multiple wards at the same time. Don't fight inside the ward's range.

    I love the spell wards. Traps should not be always easy to ignore.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    Mantle of the worldshaper, pale lavender ioun stone, random gen spell-proofing items, scarab of spell absorption.

    Any of those will counter the slow effect. Avoid being hit by multiple wards at the same time. Don't fight inside the ward's range.

    I love the spell wards. Traps should not be always easy to ignore.
    Thanks for that on the mantle etc...For me that should get you through most quests fairly easily. I will assume you are right until I find out you are wrong

    And as for 'feel' they do match FR more as it is a much more magic laden realm and casters would coat their places in wards and such like this. Eberron being more mechanical in nature it makes sense that traps are more mechanical.

    I would prefer if there was a variety of trap types in FR. But even that makes sense for many of the quests so far as many have been 'invaded' places by the bad guys so spell wards are quick and dirty traps you would put in place. Strongholds, keeps and castles I would expect would have more mechanical/in-place type traps but I could argue them away in the Drow city quests as inelegant in the drow eyes and in the demon web the devils/demons would merely dismiss mechanical traps as clumsy and beneath them.
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  10. #10
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    lol ... another easy button thread ... why not ask for a special ddoor that you cast at the entrance and it takes you straight to the end chest?

    Here's a clue ... invite a rogue to your party.

    /not signed

    //more of this type of mechanic please.
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  11. #11
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxScoobyDooxx View Post
    lol ... another easy button thread ... why not ask for a special ddoor that you cast at the entrance and it takes you straight to the end chest?

    Here's a clue ... invite a rogue to your party.

    /not signed

    //more of this type of mechanic please.
    Of course, traps that come out of nowhere, for no reason, are completely out of place in quests, are exactly the same only diferring in the type of damage they do, have placements as creative as having a dm place dots randomly in the map, are unavoidable if you can't disable and make absolutely no sense lore-wise (disjunction, dispel magic, break enchantment don't work against a SPELL WARD, ingenious huh?) are exactly what this game needs.

    Here's a clue: annoying and meaningless != hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    Of course, traps that come out of nowhere, for no reason, are completely out of place in quests(snip)
    I do see your point, but, ummm, if they were there for no reason then they'd be avoidable/ignorable? Any trap that makes me decide I need a sufficiently skilled "trapmonkey" to progress has been placed very well IMO. Of course, the best place to stick them is in choke points or wherever you least expect them for maximum hilarity.

    Also, practically every trap in any dungeon should be designed such that whoever put it there knows how to get around or disable it when they need to move around. Just as the mechanical traps have control boxes that the owner should have the disable method for, so the spell traps should be easily taken down by whoever put them there - and at the same time those who had nothing to do with their creation but may have the relevant skills should perhaps have the ability to at least have a go at neutralising them somehow. It shouldn't be easy, but for purely magical traps, perhaps there should be some magical means for dealing with them even if temporarily.

    How? I dunno.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Personally I wish they were a bit more varied. The only character I have in FR at the moment is a trapper. I like them for the xp bonus at the end. It just seems a bit stale though. Are there no non-magically inclined 'Trap Masters' in Cormyr to place anything different or are there just Mages for Spell Traps and Trapper/Skinner types for the bear traps

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  14. #14

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    lol ... another easy button thread ... why not ask for a special ddoor that you cast at the entrance and it takes you straight to the end chest?
    Oh look, another slippery slope fallacy response.

    But you know what? You've totally convinced me. No more easy buttons. Let's put the EE Lord of Blades at the entrance to every quest starting with Korthos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Oh look, another slippery slope fallacy response.

    But you know what? You've totally convinced me. No more easy buttons. Let's put the EE Lord of Blades at the entrance to every quest starting with Korthos.
    I am just making sure your suggestion is complete, is he going to be inside or outside a wall?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Periodic rant
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    Community Member cheekysmile's Avatar
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    I love traps. Well thought out ingenious ones though.

    One of the things i remember when first playing this game was the uncertainty of exploring a dungeon and getting impaled/squished/maimed through carelessness. When it's all fresh and you're not geared out better than God they are genuine worry.

    Of course we all now generally blow through them and leave the trapper behind to get some bonus xp. We know where they are and on anything less than Elite it's unlikely to hinder a party.

    I find the new ones a bit lazy. I think the main problem people have is that they still blow through them but have the inconvenience of being slowed. Maybe it's the Devs' counter to ignoring traps but i'd prefer cunning ones that could actually kill you on any level than some random glowing ball that just ticks you off.

    And yes the search/activate difference is way tight.

    Traps should be deadly not tedious!
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxScoobyDooxx View Post
    lol ... another easy button thread ... why not ask for a special ddoor that you cast at the entrance and it takes you straight to the end chest?
    lol. . . another stupid reply. . . why not try to actually contribute something?

    Personally, I don't mind the traps. They are annoying, as they should be if you don't have a trapper. Now the way that sentence should read is "They are annoying, as they should be if you don't have a trapper or Freedom of Movement." FoM should absolutely apply. At least with some of the other effects, they just nerfed the spell (stupidly, because they are terrible game masters), but didn't utterly disregard the rules of their own game like with the spell traps.

  19. #19
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    Default Annoying = not fun

    /signed

    Traps are part of the 'fun' the game, but, the 'fun' is figuring out how to neutralize them. As currently implemented, the FR traps are simply lazy dev design. Sorry, calling it out for what it is. If you put something in the game called a 'trap' - make it so it

    1) Can be disabled; and/or
    2) Neutralized by being dispelled or otherwise magically countered; and/or
    3) A process (button, lever, rune) to turn it off; and/or
    4) Having an alternate path.

    I have been running TRs and not FR for months; when I first tried MoTU we tried Dispel and Greater Dispel Magic to no avail. We also tried Gust of Wind and, of course, the various buffs. I do not recall a mention of any FR trap changes, but, has anyone tried Dispel or Greater Dispel lately?
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  20. #20
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    I also find them extremely annoying, but I think they could be tweaked to keep their 'charm' and get rid of a lot of the annoyance factor.

    1) Make them effect enemies as well. It really sucks to fight enemies that seem to retreat to spell warded areas to fight. Seems to happen a lot in Impossible Demands. I don't think the AI does it intentionally so much as there are few places in there that are NOT covered by spell wards.

    2) Reduce their trigger radius by 10-20%. Again, using Impossible Demands as an example it is kind of annoying to try to find a 'spot' where you can actually release the prisoners in the basement without having two spell traps constantly going off. Lucky for us, the prisoners appear immune. In the House of Broken Blades the two spell traps in the double-gated area are also situated such that anyone in between the two gates is getting hit constantly with the spell traps until the other gate is opened and they can get out of there. This really sucks when you are 'soloing' with a hireling and the stupid hireling is having trouble pulling the lever (seems to happen more often when leaving the room than entering it).

    3) Have SOME sort of mechanism to bypass/disable (or at least reduce the slow effect) them other than disable traps. Yes, it is good to invite a rogue to the party. I don't mean just spell absorption items, since the majority of spell absorption items in the game are going to use up all their charges within a few minutes considering how numerous spell traps are in certain quests. The annoying factor of the spell trap slow is actually an opportunity to introduce another "must have" item property "protection from slow". Even if it only reduces the slow effect (or maybe there is a lesser and greater version where the greater actually eliminates it) it would be a much sought after item.

    Also) I know we have been asking this forEVER; but it would be really, really, really nice to speed up the rogue animations for search, disable and open locks so that rogues and rogue skills are more desirable than running thru the traps and such.


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