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  1. #21

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    I am just making sure your suggestion is complete, is he going to be inside or outside a wall?
    One of each, just in case any players go through the wall. You shouldn't be able to run from a fight so easily.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysmile View Post
    And yes the search/activate difference is way tight.
    The distance you can search out a spell ward is actually quite large, it is at least as far away as you can search out a normal trap box, and the disable distance is almost as far away on them. If I know or at least suspect a spell ward is in the general vicinity, I have no trouble at all seraching them out. Disabling them is even easier on my Artificer...even those rare times I forget to put my disable gear on and roll a critical failure, I can still continue to attempt disabling the spell ward unlike "normal" traps...and since you can disable them from well outside their 'blast' radius, a critical failure is no different from a normal failure. The ward pulses once, and you attempt to disable again.
    Spell wards do have a high spot check, as they should...the only clue they are there is perhaps a slight magical disturbance. IMO, only a caster (divine, arcane, whatever) should have any chance of spotting a spell ward before you run right smack into it.

  3. #23
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Few things make me want to log off and never log on again, like Spell Traps. Such an obnoxious, cynical, blatant, time-wasting game mechanic. Expect more of this type of thing across the board, as the industry globalizes and the race to the bottom begins in earnest. They will have the number crunchers out with their calculators and calculus to waste some time here, make something a little more complicated and error-prone there (especially if the fix is sold in the store). Anything to add a little profit, which is what things like 'Spell Traps' and not having airship docks in all locations are, simple time wasting obstacles to force players to spend more time or money in the game. It's gonna get really depressing and ugly over the next decade, where anything of quality or standards is concerned. Entertainment companies will get away with it too, because people are lemmings, especially the younger generations, getting dumber by the year, if literacy and numeracy statistics are anything to go by.

  4. #24
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    They are clearly magic, but can't be disjoined/dispelled. They cause non-magical slow effect which can't be prevented magically. Despite floating invisibly in mid air, epic characters who can easily spot magic (heck in DDO level 1 characters can identify any magic item at a glance), can't see them, and even magical means such as true sight do nothing.

    These things are as dumb as an untouchable high priestess giving a long soliloquy as you dance on the altar and drop crowd control all around her, or a house matron greeting you happily after you butcher your way through her household.

    DDO has always had a few rough edges, such as getting bonus XP for destroying the furniture in an ally's building or mid level scorpions in explorer zones,. but those things were relatively minor and didn't take immersion, wipe it's ass with it and flush it down the toilet like the new content is doing.

  5. #25
    Community Member Kadriel's Avatar
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    IMHO every skill should at some point make a quests easier or more rewarding. On the other hand, no skill should be mandatory to complete a quest. If you can somehow avoid (timing or casting the proper resists), or even rez on the other side of a trap (what can be done by divines, UMDers, half elf with divine dillis, or basically anyone with some clickies), in my point of view that is a valid mechanic and the traps are fine. Bring in a trapper and the quest will be easier and more rewarding.

    If a trap makes a quest impossible to complete if not disabled then it needs to be changed.

  6. #26
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    I am not a big fan of them either but I do think that a full nerf of them by making FOM work would be basically making them a non-factor and you may as well just not have traps at all.

    As they are it is manageable on eHard to just blow through them, heal on the other side and wait the 20secs or so for slow to wear off. Basically about how much time you would lose with a trapper dealing with them.

    That said - has anyone tried zipping through them after dropping a globe of invulnerability on them and/or using a Mantle of the Worldshaper or other spell absorb item. I haven't thought of those options til now (usually preoccupied killing not analysing things) but I am sure others have.
    Mantling/ ioun stone didn't work, I don't have globe but I have the hunch that it's above a 6th level spell effect. I'll test it out later tonight though.

  7. #27
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    I would agree that these new traps need some tweaking.

    One of my favorite characters is my rogue, and I have to admit that the devastation these traps bring are fun. Makes my job a little bit more needed. I know people don't enjoy waiting around on the rogue to do things, but it's a huge fun factor. The game having traps at all is a huge draw. Not many DM's do it well from my experience, and it adds a nice extra reason to make a rogue. It would probably help if at these high levels "Search" was much much quicker. Hell, maybe after a certain level, Search should automatically go off just like walls do when we have Detect Secret Doors cast.

    That being said, I find it very odd that a majority of things, like haste, FoM, that could help ease the pain of these wards, do not.

    One could argue that in this new realm, magics don't work exactly the same as our hero's are accustomed too. Maybe the magic has a different vibe, some sort of sinister taint from the evil sorcerers and our magics just cannot compete with the same vibe it has.

    Que in the rogues, who know cogs and devices based on shape, who are experts in disabling foreign and often complex machines. Heck, maybe the magic spewing out of these new traps isn't magic at all, but rather toxins, gases and powders that combine to unleash frightening results upon us, hence why logical means around them may no longer work for our arcane.

    But maybe my imaginations just on overload. Then again, imagination is part of the fun.

    In summation, I love the new traps. I wouldn't be terribly sad if they were tweaked, but I'm comfortable with the where, why, and how they became there.

  8. #28
    Community Member Full_Bleed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    Also) I know we have been asking this forEVER; but it would be really, really, really nice to speed up the rogue animations for search, disable and open locks so that rogues and rogue skills are more desirable than running thru the traps and such.
    Rogues and Arties should get a +5% disable speed buff per level.

    And they could introduce an enhancement line to increase the speed even further.

  9. #29
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    I also find them extremely annoying, but I think they could be tweaked to keep their 'charm' and get rid of a lot of the annoyance factor.

    1) Make them effect enemies as well. It really sucks to fight enemies that seem to retreat to spell warded areas to fight. Seems to happen a lot in Impossible Demands. I don't think the AI does it intentionally so much as there are few places in there that are NOT covered by spell wards.

    2) Reduce their trigger radius by 10-20%. Again, using Impossible Demands as an example it is kind of annoying to try to find a 'spot' where you can actually release the prisoners in the basement without having two spell traps constantly going off. Lucky for us, the prisoners appear immune. In the House of Broken Blades the two spell traps in the double-gated area are also situated such that anyone in between the two gates is getting hit constantly with the spell traps until the other gate is opened and they can get out of there. This really sucks when you are 'soloing' with a hireling and the stupid hireling is having trouble pulling the lever (seems to happen more often when leaving the room than entering it).

    3) Have SOME sort of mechanism to bypass/disable (or at least reduce the slow effect) them other than disable traps. Yes, it is good to invite a rogue to the party. I don't mean just spell absorption items, since the majority of spell absorption items in the game are going to use up all their charges within a few minutes considering how numerous spell traps are in certain quests. The annoying factor of the spell trap slow is actually an opportunity to introduce another "must have" item property "protection from slow". Even if it only reduces the slow effect (or maybe there is a lesser and greater version where the greater actually eliminates it) it would be a much sought after item.

    Also) I know we have been asking this forEVER; but it would be really, really, really nice to speed up the rogue animations for search, disable and open locks so that rogues and rogue skills are more desirable than running thru the traps and such.
    I disagree with your points 1. If the AI is making enemies fight more intelligently, by pulling players into traps that don't affect them, that's great!

    Your point 2 may have some validity, especially if other traps in the game can be avoided.

    As far as 3, I totally agree. Since they're magical traps, they should be able to be magically destroyed or neutralized.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    Mantling/ ioun stone didn't work, I don't have globe but I have the hunch that it's above a 6th level spell effect. I'll test it out later tonight though.
    Globe won't work either, because it doesn't move with you and has a small radius.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    Rogues and Arties should get a +5% disable speed buff per level.

    And they could introduce an enhancement line to increase the speed even further.
    I love the idea, although I am not sure about the enhancement line, but that depends on the enhancement remake. Too many enhancements to have to choose something the majority of groups are really going to 'insist' on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    I disagree with your points 1. If the AI is making enemies fight more intelligently, by pulling players into traps that don't affect them, that's great!

    Your point 2 may have some validity, especially if other traps in the game can be avoided.
    I should have put a smiley on the first one, as I was only half-serious about it. I don't think it is really 'fair' that the spell traps don't effect them, I understand they had to make it that way since the AI isn't smart enough to avoid traps. However, most (not all) other traps in the game effect mobs as well as PCs, and killing mobs on their own traps is kind of fun.

    I believe the greater majority of other traps in the game can be avoided. Shoot, most of my characters can run thru fields of bear traps and just see *reflex save* pop up multiple times. I don't think spell traps even give you a save.


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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    Rogues and Arties should get a +5% disable speed buff per level.

    And they could introduce an enhancement line to increase the speed even further.
    I don't know about 5% because you'd have instant disable at 20, or that rogues and arti should both get the same disable speed.

    For rogues, 5% every 4 levels (25% at 20) with an additional 30% possible through enhancements. Rogue mechanics would get 5% / 10% / 10% at tier 1, 2, 3 for an additional total bonus of 25%

    For arti, 5% every 5 levels (20% at 20), with an additional 15% possible through enhancements

    Reason being: Artificers are not trap specialists. Even a generic rogue spends more time learning locks and traps than an artificer does. Artificers are all about tinkering with machines and inventions...traps just happen to be one more type of 'machine' they tinker with.

  13. #33
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    I also find them extremely annoying, but I think they could be tweaked to keep their 'charm' and get rid of a lot of the annoyance factor.

    1) Make them effect enemies as well. It really sucks to fight enemies that seem to retreat to spell warded areas to fight. Seems to happen a lot in Impossible Demands. I don't think the AI does it intentionally so much as there are few places in there that are NOT covered by spell wards. ( make sure they dont run into the hallways. I never have a problem with anyone in this quest. positioning really does help force enemies that run. )

    2) Reduce their trigger radius by 10-20%. Again, using Impossible Demands as an example it is kind of annoying to try to find a 'spot' where you can actually release the prisoners in the basement without having two spell traps constantly going off. Lucky for us, the prisoners appear immune. In the House of Broken Blades the two spell traps in the double-gated area are also situated such that anyone in between the two gates is getting hit constantly with the spell traps until the other gate is opened and they can get out of there. This really sucks when you are 'soloing' with a hireling and the stupid hireling is having trouble pulling the lever (seems to happen more often when leaving the room than entering it). ( for this one dont run in the middle. Protection from elements can reduce the initial damage. If you go in on one side your fine. Sure it stings a little)

    3) Have SOME sort of mechanism to bypass/disable (or at least reduce the slow effect) them other than disable traps. Yes, it is good to invite a rogue to the party. I don't mean just spell absorption items, since the majority of spell absorption items in the game are going to use up all their charges within a few minutes considering how numerous spell traps are in certain quests. The annoying factor of the spell trap slow is actually an opportunity to introduce another "must have" item property "protection from slow". Even if it only reduces the slow effect (or maybe there is a lesser and greater version where the greater actually eliminates it) it would be a much sought after item.

    Also) I know we have been asking this forEVER; but it would be really, really, really nice to speed up the rogue animations for search, disable and open locks so that rogues and rogue skills are more desirable than running thru the traps and such.
    answers in (). Now as for fom. Actually it does help. It prevent paralysis. lol I think some forget the traps do that. Either they have great saves or have fom on them. I think these traps are great. i dont want them to be nerfed. Fom should not effect the slow. Just because it annoys you. oh noes it slows you for a short time. what will the world do now. lol. Some can be avoided while others can't. I dont want any easy buttons in the games.

    2nd part is for rest of the people who complain about all traps not being easy to get through.

    The traps are meant to hurt you and annoy you. Some have trouble with the traps because they're not uber like you. when you see traps spit grease out im sure you will complain about that. ugh that isnt fair. it slows me down. i want to see the traps start spitting more grease out and globe invulnerability. So you will really start to complain.
    I guess most of you forget DMs/GMs whatever you want to call them always placed traps to annoy/kill you. Deal with it.

  14. #34
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Ya! And while your at it, take all epic trap dmg down by 70%!! I want sorcerers making that crucible swim.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    I have no problem with the traps in the other parts of the game. The big one in Cabal is hilarious even when you get killed by it. As aggravating as they can occasionally be, they can be dealt with by means other than "bring a trapper".

    But I've completely had it up to my eyebrows with spell traps.

    They sit in the middle of narrow hallways so they cannot be avoided. They pulse continually so you can't time them. They inflict a totally unavoidable slow effect that gives no save and ignores freedom of movement (a spell which explicitly states that it should be protecting you from this exact kind of thing).

    Something needs to give. I'd honestly be happy enough just letting FoM block the slow as it should be doing. But making them less obnoxious beyond that would also be quite welcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    And please keep spreading them out into small groups of about 4-6. I would not know what to do if 20 or 30 attacked at once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    I do not recall a mention of any FR trap changes, but, has anyone tried Dispel or Greater Dispel lately?
    I tried Dysjunction the other day. No worky.
    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    They are clearly magic, but can't be disjoined/dispelled. They cause non-magical slow effect which can't be prevented magically. Despite floating invisibly in mid air, epic characters who can easily spot magic (heck in DDO level 1 characters can identify any magic item at a glance), can't see them, and even magical means such as true sight do nothing.

    These things are as dumb as an untouchable high priestess giving a long soliloquy as you dance on the altar and drop crowd control all around her, or a house matron greeting you happily after you butcher your way through her household.

    DDO has always had a few rough edges, such as getting bonus XP for destroying the furniture in an ally's building or mid level scorpions in explorer zones,. but those things were relatively minor and didn't take immersion, wipe it's ass with it and flush it down the toilet like the new content is doing.
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  16. #36
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Originally Posted by Matuse
    Periodic rant
    I hate that stupid acid HIO4!

    ...Spell Traps

    Traps. Tee, Arr, Ay, Pee, Ess. Traps.

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  17. #37
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    answers in (). Now as for fom. Actually it does help. It prevent paralysis. lol I think some forget the traps do that. Either they have great saves or have fom on them. I think these traps are great. i dont want them to be nerfed. Fom should not effect the slow. Just because it annoys you. oh noes it slows you for a short time. what will the world do now. lol. Some can be avoided while others can't. I dont want any easy buttons in the games.
    It's not about easy buttons, it's about removing options from the game.

    I'm ok that only rogues can spot them because in D&D only certain classes can spot magical traps with a DC over a certain threshold. That's awesome.

    I'm not ok with "slow" being "arbitrarily different slow because the DM wants you to be slowed". That's as annoying in DDO as it is in PNP. It's ok for some things to be "different, because of ... you know ... plot" but too much of this really dilutes the game experience ... the inherent mechanics of the game are less of an ordered system.

    I was perfectly fine with having some poisons affect undead and machines. Heck, if Vulkoor or Lolth themselves poison you, you take it. Deity-thing. Now though, there are more and more "unavoidable and arbitrary mechanics" in the game.

    D&D has a rich amount of "this counters-or-dispels that" and "you get past this by having this other thing". I like that. I don't like more and more things moving to-unavoidable-special-exception.




    See, we're all playing rock-paper-scissors. It's ok if every once in a while someone throws in a dynamite - just not too often. When more and more things are tossed in and one side of the game is filled with dynamite, monster trucks, dinosaurs, zombies, dead spiders, horny goats, etc. then it matters less and less if we choose rock, paper or scissors. We're participating less with our actual meaningful choices, and being moved along a set linear path more.
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  18. #38
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    I think they add and entirely new dimension to the game and I fricken love it.

    Sounds to me, OP that the traps are affecting you the way that they were intended: as an obstacle to overcome.

    Might as well ask to have every trap in the game removed........
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  19. #39
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    I think they add and entirely new dimension to the game and I fricken love it.

    Sounds to me, OP that the traps are affecting you the way that they were intended: as an obstacle to overcome.

    Might as well ask to have every trap in the game removed........
    I want them to stay, and I think Matuse is ok with them in concept.

    I want the slow to be preventable by the things in the game that say "prevents or counters slow".

    Ah well, maybe they'll just hamstring you and pump the DA to red instead ...
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  20. #40
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
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    I concur with a lot of the OP. I won't get into the all of the points, except to say what bothers me the most about them isn't their functionality but their usage.

    The example that comes to mind is Impossible Demands. There are, if memory serves, 5 Spell Traps in there. 3 of which seem illogical to me and the other 2 are, in my mind, *perfect* uses of the concept.

    The three that don't make sense to me are the 2 on the top floor and the one on the stairs. Even keeping in mind the that mobs aren't effected by them for game-mechanic reasons, would anyone logically place traps in those locations in an environment they needed to continue to use? *UNLESS* the premise is that the drow are supposed to be actually bypassing them.

    The two in the basement are a perfect usage. They are places in such a way as to isolate the captives, and in a location where the drow would not need to be continuously traversing.

    There are other points, but that is the big one to me.
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