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Thread: Old alpha info

  1. #21
    Community Member jbleargh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truga View Post
    Is this a proper client, or a wine wrapper a-la EVE for Mac? If it's a proper client, I imagine it runs through OGL, and if so, can we expect a client compiled for Linux? I don't mind if it's "unsupported" and all that, I'd just like to see a native binary.
    It is probably a wine wrapper.... A complete native client would be much more expensive to do.

    I'd like to see a native linux binary too... they could also give us the source and we could try to compile and make it work ourselves... but, ofc, it will not happen.

    Linux users are used to fend for themselves. The stereotypical linux user don't need someone to make DDO work in wine (in 2 years the first time I had to compile a wine just for ddo was in the last update).

    Stereotypical Saint Jobs followers like user friendlyness and don't care how things works... probably don't even know what "compile" means.

    For them a wine wrapper is a huge benefit. Hopefully will bring more people to the game.

    IMHO, Turbine's technical staff should concentrate their efforts in bug squashing and new stuff, not babysitting Linux users.

    I'd like to save the "oh please help us linux users please" for the time that we really can't make it work and the solution is dependent on some coding from turbine.

  2. #22
    Community Member blametroi's Avatar
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    Default can't file bug reports yet, so ...

    Macbook Pro os x 10.7 late 2008 (intel core 2 duo) with "detect optimal settings" for graphics. Using the build in keyboard and a Naga Razer mosue. Text entry is broken/unreliable (see below) so I'm reporting here. Turbine/Tolero, should we move to a different thread?

    1) Download and install process was painfully slow (and i'm on fiber optics) but worked well enough.

    2) Text entry doesn't seem to work in any of the chat boxes.

    3) On the first toon I copied over, I was able to create a new guild (type in the guild name on social panel) and restore access to her items with guild augment slots even though I can't actually slot anything in them due to guild level.

    4) Run around the gnoll section of sands with her showed no obvious problems.

    5) Fired up the bug reporter tool but could not enter text into it. Just like the various chats, it just wouldn't take any text, but the keyboard was clearly working for other functions.

    6) Logged onto a second toon (log out and log on, did not quit client) and tried to create a guild for her so she could use her slots. No joy. Could not enter any text, but keyboard was working otherwise.

    7) She zoned into House C and I noticed flickering of some of the detailing on walls, but that could be a graphics setting issue.

    8) Camera zoom in and out changes differently than on windows, and the mouse wheel doesn't seem to zoom correctly. Can't describe better than that.

    So, in a half hour no major issues. Bravo!

    I plan to run some lowbies around to exercise the client, but initial experience is positive.

  3. #23
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Turbine takes away French and German support with one hand and adds Apple support with the other. Makes it very hard to read the tea leaves about the future state of the game. I would have thought Apple support would be by far the more difficult of the two, so it would be a bigger investment, therefore more confidence in the game's future rather than less?

    Or is it just less confidence in the odd two-headed beast that is Windows 8?
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  4. #24
    Community Member blametroi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbleargh View Post
    It is probably a wine wrapper.... A complete native client would be much more expensive to do.

    I'd like to see a native linux binary too... they could also give us the source and we could try to compile and make it work ourselves... but, ofc, it will not happen.

    Linux users are used to fend for themselves. The stereotypical linux user don't need someone to make DDO work in wine (in 2 years the first time I had to compile a wine just for ddo was in the last update).

    Stereotypical Saint Jobs followers like user friendlyness and don't care how things works... probably don't even know what "compile" means.

    For them a wine wrapper is a huge benefit. Hopefully will bring more people to the game.

    IMHO, Turbine's technical staff should concentrate their efforts in bug squashing and new stuff, not babysitting Linux users.

    I'd like to save the "oh please help us linux users please" for the time that we really can't make it work and the solution is dependent on some coding from turbine.
    I inspected the package contents and the framework libraries are all "qt" something. IIRC, that's some of what WINE uses. I'm not sure how viable that is long term with Windows 8 in the future, but building cross platfrom on such a framework in the future can remove some of the platform dependency and lock in.

    On your flame bait--I read a story (I think in network world, but I don't recall exactly) about market share vs usage tendencies. Point was that android has taken over unit sales and penetration, but if you look at web usage from mobile devices, iOS wins going away. Technical merits aside (they don't equal market success, just ask OS/2 users) devices don't matter. People and what they do matters.

    An android tablet doesn't spend money, nor does an iPad. But, there are clear tendencies among buyers of various devices and technologies. Linux users are stereotypically cheapskates, and if I was allocating resources to a development push, they'd be low on my priority list unless had I had data that showed me they would bring me money.

    Back to DDO and Turbine, if they are building on top of a good cross platform framework and can bring a solution to Linux as they go after what is almost certainly a more lucrative Mac market, that'd be cool. As a DDO player, I want lots of people in game and supporting future development by buying TP.

  5. #25
    Community Member Truga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blametroi View Post
    Linux users are stereotypically cheapskates
    Source?

  6. #26
    Community Member blametroi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truga View Post
    Source?
    Probably the same as jbleargh's compile assertion

    Note that I said stereotypically. I'm in the software business myself though, and consumer linux software and developer tools just never could get the attention of any of the suits I've worked with. Their marketing data said these people don't spend, and that's what they believed. They'd go for Windows, which to them seemed a safe bet. I'm not convinced they were always right, but that's the direction and decision process I've observed repeatedly.

  7. #27
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blametroi View Post
    Probably the same as jbleargh's compile assertion

    Note that I said stereotypically. I'm in the software business myself though, and consumer linux software and developer tools just never could get the attention of any of the suits I've worked with. Their marketing data said these people don't spend, and that's what they believed. They'd go for Windows, which to them seemed a safe bet. I'm not convinced they were always right, but that's the direction and decision process I've observed repeatedly.
    I don't know if that's entirely true, but I can see where the perception would come from. The fact is though, if you buy a pc it already comes with a Windows license, and if you build a pc from scratch it will most likely be more expensive than any pre-built pc, often significantly more. Then if you are just talking about the addon software itself, tools that I can think of that are available to Linux users for free are also available to Windows users for free anyway (OpenOffice, etc.).

    If there was any threat to a piece of new software from Linux users I'd think it would be more loyalty or stubbornness or just being set in their ways. Most Linux users I know are very particular about their computing environment and very very (emotionally?) commited to the software they already use and have since the first day they did blah blah blah with RedHat back in the days when you had to compile blah blah blah from scratch and walk home both ways in the snow, etc etc, whether the old or new software is free or not.
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  8. #28
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    Default Linux users actually pay more

    Quote Originally Posted by Truga View Post
    Source?
    In the various humble bundles (pay what you want), linux users consistently paid more than users from other platforms: http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humble/

    Maybe, being used to good quality software, linux users are less inclined to pay for "buy now, we'll patch-it-later", DRM-laden, sub-par software.

    But I too would rather see the bugs fixed than a native port to linux right now
    It is true DDO has worked nicely with wine up until the last patch, and I haven't tested, but I believe the latest wine version that came out a couple of weeks after the update includes the necessary patch.

  9. #29
    Community Member DANTEIL's Avatar
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    I'm really looking forward to downloading the beta Mac client for DDO and checking it out!


    For what it's worth, many of these issues that people are finding here in DDO are identical to issues experienced by people using the new Mac client in LOTRO: http://forums.lotro.com/forumdisplay...hnical-Support

    For example, the need to work around Gatekeeper in OSX 10.8

    And the problem with not being able to type in chat. In LOTRO, it is known that this problem occurs any time you switch between windowed and full-screen or change the display resolution. The only way to get the ability to type in chat back is to exit completely and log back in.

    Also, if it is anything like the LOTRO client, there are still going to be a number of problems with the graphical settings -- e.g., you won't be able to change everything. I know on my machine, I get all kinds of graphical glitches (e.g., purple waterfalls) in LOTRO on the Mac.


    Even so, I am very glad that Turbine is going in this direction!

  10. #30
    Community Member PpalP's Avatar
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    So if you don't have 10.7 OS can't launch de app, right? : (

  11. #31
    Community Member oberon131313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DANTEIL View Post

    Also, if it is anything like the LOTRO client, there are still going to be a number of problems with the graphical settings -- e.g., you won't be able to change everything. I know on my machine, I get all kinds of graphical glitches (e.g., purple waterfalls) in LOTRO on the Mac.
    I was able to fix a few graphical glitches by changing some graphics settings on the game (was on my macbook, not my MacPro, so GFX card isn't as power). I was getting fun dancing tree when I would cast lightning bolt, until I changed post processing effects to "off"
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  12. #32
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    *cries a single manly tear* I'll be testing this out this weekend. Thank you very much for this.
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PpalP View Post
    So if you don't have 10.7 OS can't launch de app, right? : (
    It will run on 10.8, but you have to allow apps from anywhere in the System Preferences / Security panel. When you run the DNDLauncher look for a dialog asking "are sure you want to run this app?". It may appear behind other windows so close all the Finder windows if you don't see it.

    At least one other person said they had to restart the Mac to get it to work, but I think if you find the dialog, you should be ok.

    Once you have it working, reenable your security settings.

    Edit: it requires 10.7 or higher at the moment. It isn't going to work on anything less than that.
    Last edited by Katie_Seaglen; 12-04-2012 at 08:29 PM.

  14. #34
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    So this doesn't run in Snow Leopard? Ouch.

  15. #35
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    omg. wow this is major news. i wonder how many players this will bring in..

    honestly I am not very fond of the mac platform - I use it at work. but I am seriously now considering buying a macbook just for ddo.

  16. #36
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truga View Post
    Is this a proper client, or a wine wrapper a-la EVE for Mac? If it's a proper client, I imagine it runs through OGL, and if so, can we expect a client compiled for Linux? I don't mind if it's "unsupported" and all that, I'd just like to see a native binary.
    MAC OS X is the child of BSD and NextSTEP...
    As such it has nothing to do with Linux ( beyond the fact that they are both Unix like ).
    Depending on how it the MAC porting has been done, getting a Linux version can range from a piece of cake to coding nightmare .

    Personally if they really want to produce clients I'd love a Solaris 10, Ultra Sparc ( sun4u ) version.
    But I'm a bit biased.
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  17. #37
    Community Member Claver's Avatar
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    This is the best news I've had in re: DDO since inception.

    My best friend in a diehard Mac user. Even though we played D&D in college, porting the game into Windows was too much hassle for him. If nothing else, he will download this into MAC as an alternative to telephone calls.

  18. #38
    The Hatchery
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    Why drop localization for French and German but then release DDO for OSX? I mean, a lot of gaming companies do OSX support, but they also localization at the same time. Now DDO will have no localization, which doesn't make sense to me

    I mean, I'm not French or German, but it's just sort of odd. I bet you'd have success with a Portugese localization. There seems to be a lot of Brazilian players, for some reason...

    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    How about a linux client?
    Linux makes up less than 1.5% of total Desktop/Laptop computer OSes by many metrics. OSX is gaining ground and has something like 8%. I guess it was just worth it for Turbine to make an OSX port?

    I doubt they'll do it for Linux. Too niche, and Linux users already never expect things to just be handed to them...

    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    Or is it just less confidence in the odd two-headed beast that is Windows 8?
    Quote Originally Posted by blametroi View Post
    I'm not sure how viable that is long term with Windows 8 in the future.
    I don't think they're worried about W8. It's an awful OS unless you have a touchscreen, and even if you lose the Metro UI you gain basically nothing over W7. W8 is having underwhelming sales, and people are even getting rid of W8 on new computers. But there's no reason for Turbine to change their policies or anything just because Microsoft is goofing; vast majority of computers still use W7 and XP. Only 0.5% of computers run W8, and DDO runs on W8 as it is anyway (with stability issues which can be resolved in time). It's really just "Hey let's make DDO work on another OS to get more players."

    Still wondering about the French and German thing though. Were there simply not a lot of players?

  19. #39
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    Why drop localization for French and German but then release DDO for OSX?

    [...]

    Still wondering about the French and German thing though. Were there simply not a lot of players?
    It has been stated, in the French Thread IIRC, that less than 4% of the French players used the French Client and that keeping the French localization for them was costing an arm and a leg.

    In the end of the day Turbine is in for the money, it's not economically viable to maintain a packaging for less than 4% of a market, when the 96% use the same item but packaged differently.

    It's probably the same problem for the Germans.

    Honestly, they would have had more people using localized clients if they released said client ( with correct translations ) when they took over from Codemasters... ( where we had localized clients from the begining )
    But the 8/9 month gap between the end of the European Servers and the creation of the localized clients killed them :
    - those that couldn't cope with English only left for greener pastures
    - those that could cope with English moved to the English client and kept it because it makes things way more simple. ( no mindbreaking guess at translations of quest names and such )
    Last edited by Flavilandile; 12-06-2012 at 02:14 AM.
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  20. #40
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    Those of you asking for a Linux client - plenty of people already play DDO from Linux and OSX using wine.

    I have used pyLotro and Codeweavers.com Crossover (a commercial version of Wine for OSX and Linux) for years for Microsoft Office and DDO. It is so seamless now that the Crossover installer handles installing pylotro for you.

    Caveat to the above is that since the last DDO & LOTRO updates it has been broken - it will be working again when Crossover 12 comes out.
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