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  1. #1
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Default Need help with my Barbarian, takes way too much damage.

    My barb is a secondary character that I do not play a whole lot since Epic destinies came out.

    He is just too squishy so I am looking for anything I can do to improve his survivability.

    Here is his current build

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    captcaveman 
    Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Orc Male
    (20 Barbarian) 
    Hit Points: 472
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             20                    30
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         18                    22
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              6                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                    11
    Bluff                -2                    -1
    Concentration         4                     6
    Diplomacy            -2                    -1
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -2                    -1
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate            2                    22
    Jump                  5                    21
    Listen                3                    27
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                 -1                     0
    Swim                  5                    10
    Tumble               n/a                    n/a
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 5 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 6 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 8 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 12 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Might
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness IV
    Was wearing Dragontouched robes with damage guards but he would just get destroyed. Currently wearing epic calvary plate.

    Currently a level 21 Half-orc THF barb

    Any advice would be helpful. He used to be fun to play, not any more. Not since the changes to AC.
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  2. #2
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    I found the advice in this thread invaluable.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=399341

    The bottom line is more fort, more blurry, more displacement (which can only come from self-clickies), more ghostly. But read the whole thing.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    I found the advice in this thread invaluable.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=399341

    The bottom line is more fort, more blurry, more displacement (which can only come from self-clickies), more ghostly. But read the whole thing.
    Thank you, I will check out that link carefully.
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  4. #4
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    1. Get 10% incorporeal. I love the Mabar Cloak for this.

    2. Get a perma-blur item or a caster and yell "bjur meh!"

    3. Try to fit in some dodge gear, don't gimp your DPS in it's pursuit but 10% or so should be doable.

    4. Get as much hjealing amp as possible, at this time I consider 30% gloves and 20% from some other source to be a minimum for melees in EEs.

    5. Play smart. Getting surrounded by un-CC'd mobs and cleaving like Leroy Jenkins will just get you killed. Use mobs to block other mobs so only one can attack you, trip, stun, etc.

    6. Be smart with the use of your Uncanny Dodge.

    7. Displacement GS clickies are only tier 2. Make some as they are situationally awesome.
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  5. #5
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    Blur(Smoke Green Steel, some of the U16 items) and Ghostly(Ring of the Stalker, Wretched Twilight, Mabar Cloak, some of the U16 items) are integral to a melee character's survival these days.

    I personally went with more dodge than the prr difference between medium and light armor.

    Consider swapping Toughness with Stunning Blow.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  6. #6
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Default ?

    Can you even use clickies when raged?
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  7. #7
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    Can you even use clickies when raged?
    No but you work it in when you can. If you have to dismiss rage to do it at a critical moment (i.e. the last wave of that portal defender quest on EE), then dismiss rage. Having one more rage doesn't help that much if you're dead. Well, I guess it does help, because it gives you a rage to use when you're alive again. But, darnit, it's just better not to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post

    3. Try to fit in some dodge gear, don't gimp your DPS in it's pursuit but 10% or so should be doable.
    People say this and it makes sense but you can't get more than 5% in medium armor, right? Is it really better to go with light armor for the potential for more dodge? I don't know.
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  8. #8
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    Can you even use clickies when raged?
    Obviously no, that's why it's important to play smart and click before raging.

    This one question is why i always take extra rages rather than extended rage. That way I'm not afraid to dismiss my rage if I need to use a clicky, then re-rage afterwards. Another reason why barbs should always carry rage pots as well. Seems silly, but it can be the difference between a good barb and a dead one.

    edit: ninja'd!
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  9. #9
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Well I went with the ECP just because I had it in the bank. I have started looking for better light armor and will start trying to work in more dodge, ghostly, blurry etc.

    Thank you for the advice.
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  10. #10
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    The barbarian is meant to take damage and to deal damage. That's it.

    You can only gear a barb so far to offset SOME of the damage before you cross over into gimping the class.

    Granted, you can splash for evasion, and there are other things you can do, but taking damage is just part of the class.

    Once you get to the point you can start leveling destinies, then a lot more options for damage mitigation come into play.

    good luck and have fun.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Dicey's Avatar
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    Some relevant contemporary gear advices:

    1. Bracers of Twisting Shades - Blurry (20% concealment), Resistance +7, Exceptional Seeker 5. It's one of the rare combinations of defense and dps in an item.
    2. Epic Golden Guile- Ghostly (10% incorporeal, stacks with concealment), Improve deception- this little property is amazing and so often overlooked by melees. They can't do anything with their back against you. Just be careful with it when tanking is involved.
    3. Seal of Dun Robar- Dodge 4%. It's a pretty common piece of gear for melee nowadays. If you're lucky and find the right variation of the rings, you've got yourself a free 4% dodge.
    4. Mithral cloak of the wolf- Dodge 3%, Exceptional seeker 4. If you don't go with the bracers from u16 pack, these are nice to have too. Don't upgrade it to adamantine, or the dodge bonus wont stack with the Dun Robar seal.
    4. Displacement clickies from shroud- 1 min 30 sec of displacement, stacks with blurry and ghostly. Since most barbs don't know what scrolls are, these clickies will really worth your smalls and med ingredients.

    On epic elite the damage output is so tremendous that damage reductions are nearly meaningless. These gears are survival specifically in the aspect of damage intake control, and by control I mean
    (Combat): Badbadguy misses you due to concealment.
    (Combat): Badbadguy misses you due to concealment.

    Aside from these gears make sure you got yourself high enough fort as a barb and some decent healing amp (20% + 30% should suffice). All of this should make it easier to stay alive...
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  12. #12
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    When you start taking heavy damage, you're supposed to swing your greataxe even faster and scream, "RAWR!!! BLARG!!! DEATH!!! RAAAAAAAAAGE!"




    That's all there is to it.



    And have a friendly cleric nearby to raise you afterwards.
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  13. #13
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    On a barbarian a couple ways I've found to reduce incoming damage during my life as a barbarian

    1. Don't throw yourself into the middle of an angry crowd - Yes I know Cleave attacks do more overall damage when it can hit everyone, but if your only injuring it, you got one attack on each of 10 Mobs and they get 10 attacks on you.
    2. Don't underestimate DR - While this won't erase the hit completely, being able to shake off some of the damage can help make hits less painful, even if it is only 1% of the damage
    3. Don't forget Uncanny Dodge - It will help reduce you reduce how often you get hit as well as upping your reflex save allowing you to take less damage from Reflex Damage.
    4. Mobility - Not the Feat, but ability to move around - Best way to not get hit is to not be in range. As a barbarian your movement speed is increased, using the Hit-And-Move can help you stay out of the Mobs attack range and it can be as easy as hit and move to the Mobs Left hand. This can also be a good tactic when you cleave, Cleave and Jump/run out of the center of mobs. Get your 10 hits in, but don't let them get their 10 hits in.

  14. #14
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    without a doubt the greatest item any melee can have is a displace clicky. Their is no comparison, except maybe if you could spam uncanny dodge forever.

    Unfortunately the main drawback of being a barb isn't only the lessened defense but also the real pain in the ass of not being able to use most things when raged. And if you aren't raged then ur just a shell of a fighter. So it comes to timing in between rages. Which as said above easier to have multiple rages then one that completely dwarfs the 1.5 minutes of displace.

    As said dodge is good at making a few things miss ya. And if you can get the stunning 10 combo you want, with the barbs str that makes stunning blow very viable. Especially when you factor in ED's. Remember, if the monster isn't hitting back you win. It also helps that FB5 adds dmg on helpless, as does sense weakness. Also gives you the 4 dodge, which stacks with the lv 20 cloak of +3 dodge, and then do a alter thingy for +1 dodge. Then theirs also the extra 1 from haste.

    Then you got heal amp. By far those gauntlets are just sweet with an easy to get 30% amp. Get a tod ring and slap 20% amp on that. If you take a step further you can go human for more amp. Take it further still you can go helf, take monk and stack more on top of that. The more amp, the more actually useful a cure serious pot is. Though with the amount of extra stats from tomes, and gear, and the barbs run like a bat outa hell nature, silver flame pots really are more bearable.

    Also fort. Gone are the days we dawn a heavy fort GS and even let the barb sing a reckless on us. So twisting in the 40% fort in ED is really one of those fail safes now. It's really not alot of fun when things are beating down your fort and then nailing you. Even 1k hp isn't gonna last long in EE, hell not even eh if sa is going off.

    Also it may have changed but I'm pretty sure displace and blur are the same class. Though incorp from ghostly stacks or rather is a separate roll they have to beat along side displace.

    And while LD is nice, fotw gives you those bursts of heals over time. Adds some survivability especially with amp.

    That's about everything I can think of. I mean you could do a splash for evasion. With the right combo you could actually get reflex up somewhat decent with gear and ed. Though you do give up cap. which takes away the glancing 10% dmg.

    Or you could go 2 fighter, gain a couple feats which is always nice on a barb. Maybe even take the feat dodge.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Dodge_bonus Have fun stacking every which way.
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  15. #15
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    The barbarian is meant to take damage and to deal damage. That's it.

    You can only gear a barb so far to offset SOME of the damage before you cross over into gimping the class.

    Granted, you can splash for evasion, and there are other things you can do, but taking damage is just part of the class.

    Once you get to the point you can start leveling destinies, then a lot more options for damage mitigation come into play.

    good luck and have fun.
    Yes, but I find it kinda ridiculous they don't even try, I mean cmon 99 percent barbies have no blurry, incorporeal, no displace before tough fights, and no reflex. Another toughness instead of stunning blow. Most rogues have better survivability.

    In raids, yes go full retard but in quests ? Really just lame excuses and lazy play, for what, 6 damage per swing or whatever.
    I don't play barbarians exactly because of dependence on others but I find the whole idea of not even trying unacceptable.

  16. #16
    Community Member Doomcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicey View Post
    Since most barbs don't know what scrolls are,.....

    Yes, yes we do.

    The 1 ply scrolls are for early in our adventuring careers, the 2 and 3 ply scrolls are great
    once we've gotten some serious loot.

    3 ply .........mmmmmm soft.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    ok so step 1, better armor. check, just got to level to use it

    Step 2 more dodge, check start farming on other toons to get my Barbarian stuff he is too squishy to get himself

    Step #3 more displacement clickies

    Thank for the tips, looks like I can improve his survivability a lot with some gear that does not look all that hard to get.
    Last edited by Bolo_Grubb; 12-04-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    More dex, get some ac gear, find a shield and never rage.

  19. #19
    Community Member me_TOO's Avatar
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    communication with the healers.

    In my guild when the cleric tells you to bird dog on your barb it means go nuts, frenzy and swing for the fences... cuz the healer has your back. If you dont have the support, then a slight dip in damage is worth the sacrifice to not needing a rez.

    and keep your silver flame pots handy for just in case. As long as you get all stats to 11 you are just slowed and drinking more pots isnt going to hurt you anymore than the first 1. Cleaves still go off at full speed even when slowed in this way a barb has 3 cleaves, more if he twists in momentum swing and lay waste.
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  20. #20
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Firstly use Stunning Blow on carefully chosen targets to prevent damage. The feat is good at it - stunned drow casters throw no DBFs and lose their stack of Niac's Biting Cold on you. (Obviously take this feat over a second toughness, some barbs take it instead of a first toughness for the simple reason that it can mitigate more damage).

    Secondly look at what is actually killing you. When you die, look over your combat log, not just at what got the final blow but at damage you took in the preceeding few seconds. Usually it will be something like this:

    'Efreeti hits you for 150 damage'
    'Cacodemon hits you for 110 damage'
    'Reflex save: you roll 8+41, save failure'
    'Efreeti's DBF hits you for 430 fire damage'
    'Cacodemon hits you for 115 damage, you have died'.

    Notice there that you would have survived (probably long enough to be healed) if you had made that reflex save or had some form of fire absorb in your gearset.

    An alternate death analysis might look like this:

    'Matron Jyn'Robar hits you for 210 damage'
    'Matron Jyn'Robar critically hits you for 605 damage'
    'Matron Jyn'Robar sneak attacks you for 267 damage, you have died'

    Here you would have lived if you had much more than 100% fortification.

    So two things from this.

    a) Look at your Reflex save. If it buffs into the low or mid 40s (epic elite) then do whatever you can within reasons to push it higher - if you can get it to 50-52 you'll take a lot less big spikes of damage from spells. If that's not happening, carry a trinket or some other item with a decent gob of fire absorb and the same for electric, and swap them in whenever they are needed. Don't be the idiot that brags about their uber leet DPS that then dies because they wouldn't replace a +DPS item with a survivability item when needed.

    b) Train up the +40% fortification twist of fate and also at least one of the +6 Reflex save ones. Swap them in (at the expense of +DPS twists) when you know you are running a quest where they are needed.


    And of course wear medium armor for the increased PRR. Each point of PRR has very significant returns when you have little of it. (Edit: Someone makes a good point below - do weigh this up against Dodge%, light might be better for you).
    Last edited by sirgog; 12-06-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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