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  1. #21
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    On a barb,getting 50 reflex save?
    Tell me how to do it without building barb only around that.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    And of course wear medium armor for the increased PRR. Each point of PRR has very significant returns when you have little of it.
    Using medium armor over light armor on a barb is stupid. I get 14 prr with light armor and 19 prr with medium, or 8% dr with light armor and 11% dr with medium armor. There's a 3% damage mitigation difference while most good medium armors only have 6-7% MDB compared to 14-15 MDB on light armors(and my barb can get 13%). edit: Also, barbs get a passive 6% dodge, so that matches most medium armors right there. The problem with the dr-types change with U14 and barbs is that one factor that makes up for the prr to dodge difference between light/medium/heavy armor is irrelevant. AC is meaningless for us so that bonus AC that you get from going one or two higher tiers of armor doesn't help balance that difference. Light armor is the best armor tier for a barb.

    There are only 1-2 good medium armors that have a mdb higher than 7, I think that new exc SA armor has one and maybe an armor in U15 chain IIRC.

    As for reflex, Uncanny Dodge isn't an action boost anymore, so it's not nearly as controllable as before u14. To the point that I wouldn't consider it in my calculations for how much reflex boost my barb can attain. 30 seconds is not enough at times, especially when mobs are chain-casting cometfall, or there are 3-4 Mistresses that are having their way with my party. It's good for that 50% dodge in heavy fighting every now and then, but the reflex save is just an aquiescence to the whining by devs that amounts to little. If they made it passive it would be a different story altogether.

    Where before my barb could get effective reflex save, post U14 it's very, very hard. I would also like to see your setup for barbs with 50+ reflex save, preferably not removing a large part of the offense, but I'm open to anything at this point.


    6base+6resistance+4superior parrying+4gh+2good luck+6twist+7dex=35 (I remember there being a named armor that you can socket +10 reflex in one of the higher level packs, can't remember the name though)


    EDIT:
    Hypothetical twists would be: Sense Weakness, Brace for Impact, Magister +6 reflex+3% dodge(which would boost my dodge to 16%(15% with my light red armor's MDB, 14 with Goristro)
    Last edited by HalfORCastrator; 12-05-2012 at 10:34 AM.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  3. #23
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    On a barb,getting 50 reflex save?
    Tell me how to do it without building barb only around that.
    Imp uncanny.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    Imp uncanny.
    Not controllable/lasting enough.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  5. #25
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfORCastrator View Post
    Not controllable/lasting enough.
    It's a clickie, ie 100% controllable (you have to click it to make it work, but you don't have to click it if you don't want to) lasting long enough to get through traps. Getting up to a high 40s reflex situationally is pretty powerful on a high hit point barb.

  6. #26
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    I care less about traps and more about mobs' spells. That implies continuous exposure. Something 30 seconds every 2 minutes isn't adequate for, imo.

    But thanks for the mocking tone.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  7. #27
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Assuming one is willing to give up the PRR for the dodge, what is a light armor I'd be aiming for for a barbarian? I don't think about light armor much, the last I had on any character was dragontouched. What are the good light armors these days, and where do they come from?

    Thanks!
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  8. #28
    Community Member mrphlegm's Avatar
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    Cormyrian and goristro, whisperchain isn't too bad either, it's medium though but max dex 11

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrphlegm View Post
    Cormyrian and goristro, whisperchain isn't too bad either, it's medium though but max dex 11
    Which would probably make it one of the best defensive armors(physical damage, slot consolidation) and pretty good offensively since it's the only item with exc SA +5. IIRC


    Hmm...

    Helm: PDK
    Goggles: Tharne's Goggles
    Necklace: Min2 HP Necklace
    Trinket: Greater Bold Trinket
    Cloak: Addy Cloak of Wolf (Can be mithral to get 3% dodge to stack with Dunrobar's 4%, lose 1 exc seeker)
    Armor: Whisperchain EE
    Bracers: 30 heal amp/superior parrying Bracers
    Gloves: Nether Grasps EE
    Belt: Ravager/FB set
    Ring1: Ravager/FB set (20% amp)
    Ring2: Dunrobar (+2con/+5 exc combat mastery)
    Boots: Madstone Boots

    Str:
    20horcbase+6lvls+5tome+6item+1exc+2ins+2profane+2m adstone+8barbrage+4barbpowerrage+2orcpowerrage+2or cenhs+5scream+2cap+6frenzies+2yugo+2shrine+1destin y=78 +2fbset=80
    78-10=68/2=34str bonus +1fbset=35
    34+10base+6LD+5combat mastery=55 combat dcs/56 with FB set

    34*1.5=52 str dmg/53 with FB set
    +5 SA (+5 more SA dmg
    +5 exc SA (+3 more exc SA dmg)
    19prr(3% more mitigation)
    10 hp (SFL)
    +5 combat dcs
    true seeing

    vs. my current setup

    Helm: PDK
    Goggles: Smoke HP Goggles
    Necklace: Grim's Bracelet (+4 resist)
    Trinket: Litany of the Dead
    Cloak: Addy Cloak of Wolf
    Armor: Red Light armor
    Bracers: Claw bracers
    Gloves: Claw gloves
    Belt: Ravager/FB set
    Ring1: Ravager/FB set (20% amp)
    Ring2: tier 3 Ring of the Stalker
    Boots: Madstone Boots


    20horcbase+6lvls+5tome+7item+1exc+2ins+1profane+2m adstone+8barbrage+4barbpowerrage+2orcpowerrage+2or cenhs+5scream+2cap+6frenzies+2yugo+2shrine+1destin y=78 +2fbset=80
    78-10=68/2=34str bonus +1fbset=35
    34+10base+6LD=50 combat dcs/51 with FB set


    3% dodge
    +1 profane damage
    +1 profane con/dex/cha (+25hp+1balance and reflex+1intimidate)
    20% fire absorb
    10 fire resistance

    The 3% dodge and 3% prr cancel each other out.

    Don't care much for the balance, reflex, and extra intimidate.

    The 15 hp loss I don't like but it's not like barbs don't have boatloads.

    Greater Bold is slightly more damage than Litany's profane damage.



    Actually, swap Grim's Bracelet with Golden Guile then swap Ring of the Stalker with House of Avithoul ring. Becomes:

    +1 str dmg
    +5 exc SA (+3 more SA dmg)
    19prr(3% more mitigation)
    10 hp (SFL, 15 hp less)
    +6 combat dcs
    true seeing

    vs.

    +4 Claw damage
    +1 profane con/dex/cha (+25hp+1balance and reflex+1intimidate)
    20% fire absorb
    10 fire resistance
    +1cha skills

    The str damage cancels out with 1 claw damage. 3 claw damage is better than 3 AS damage(SA dmg doesnt multiply and isn't as good against high fort mobs or if you have aggro).

    6 combats dcs is huge, true seeing is great. More prr.

    Comes down to very slightly more damage, some hp, reflex save, and some fire absorb compared to 6 combat dcs(which makes up for the damage loss in spades), a bit of prr(that makes up for the bit of hp in spades), and true seeing which saves some sp or distraction of party members.


    For reflex, you could go with Parasitic Breastplate socketed with 10 reflex. (googled and found the armor!) Doesn't stack with normal resistance though. So, with superior parrying and this, +14 to reflex.


    EDIT: Thought I made mistakes. Nevermind.
    Last edited by HalfORCastrator; 12-12-2012 at 03:56 PM.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  10. #30
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Tactically, and maybe someone can confirm this as I didn't do this on my Barb life, I have found it useful on my melee to gather up some mobs and stick my back in a corner and start a swinging away. Only a few mobs usually can touch you at a time. I don't consider this an exploit since technically, if you are in a corner, only so many foes would be able to fit in that arc. Supreme Cleave away. I stun,, freeze stuff with tunic and let them come single and double-file at me.

    I hope this helps with regards to mitigating large mob dmg.

    Oh and also lessens to a degree, flanking dmg incoming.

  11. #31
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfORCastrator View Post
    I care less about traps and more about mobs' spells. That implies continuous exposure. Something 30 seconds every 2 minutes isn't adequate for, imo.

    But thanks for the mocking tone.
    30 seconds every 2 minutes is usually enough for the start of every big fight, until mob numbers are down a little. Makes a big difference.

    As for what a Barb's reflex save can look like:

    Dex: 14 base, +4 tome, +10/11 on those silly new boots EH/EE - 9. Note this is a small sacrifice (16 base Con instead of 18 in most cases, so 25 less HP.
    Baseline saves at level 25 (Barb20/Epic5 or Barb18/Ftr2/Epic5) - 8 (17)
    Resistance 6 item - 6 (23)
    Superior Parrying - 4 (27)
    Greater Heroism - 4 (31)
    Haste - 1 (32)
    Good Luck - 2 (34)
    Two defensive twists (Brace for Impact and the Magister Reflex/Dodge one) - 8 (42)

    - enough to save the majority of the time against EE Lailat or EE LOB even without a paladin in group.

    Now if you pre-buff before short, intense fights with Recitation and careful use of Uncanny Dodge, you'll hit 50 - enough that when you really need to fail Cometfalls only on a 1 you will (exception: I believe EE CITW Mistresses have a DC higher than 52 and they live longer than 30 seconds). Of course this is for a short time, but usually it will be enough to get the job done.

    The sacrifices made to get that Reflex save:
    - 25 hp (18/14/16 starting physical stats instead of 18/8/18)
    - Slotting a Superior Parrying item
    - Using two twists defensively rather than offensively (although IMO you'd have Brace for Impact anyway).
    - Dedicating your boots slot to a defensive item (albeit a pretty impressive one)

    Further sacrifices that could be considered:
    - Changing to the Madness armor, it's not a bad piece of armor and has +4 to saves over a Resistance 6 item, but this is quite a DPS cost and also removes any easy way to slot 20% fire absorb
    - A Greensteel item with a potent guard (Enervation Guard probably, it's the best of them now IMO) with +1 and +2 exceptional Reflex save. Comes at the cost of not being able to fit a DPS increasing item in that slot, plus you need a blasted cleanser.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  12. #32
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    I would rather slot displacement on Madness armor than +10 reflex save that doesnt stack.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    Imp uncanny.
    Ok,how do you get 44 reflex on a barb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    On a barb,getting 50 reflex save?
    Tell me how to do it without building barb only around that.
    Last edited by Ivan_Milic; 12-11-2012 at 08:03 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    I don't play barbarians
    And yet you're still talking about them as if you know what you're talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    lasting long enough to get through traps.
    . . . I don't think traps are the problem, but thanks for playing anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    I have found it useful on my melee to gather up some mobs and stick my back in a corner and start a swinging away.
    That's just playing smart. Which you shouldn't do if you're playing a Barb, as we all know they have only a 4 Int and Wis. TERRIBLE ROLEPLAYING!!!!!!!!

    No, seriously, unless you've got someone with you handling CC or laying waste next to you, you should pretty much always try to use this tactic to increase your survivability.

  14. #34
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    And yet you're still talking about them as if you know what you're talking about.
    ..
    Ouch, you seem to be an expert though, spoken like a true manasponge, I knew you had one. Do you think you can do anything except removing Minos to be even bigger resource drain on your lvl16, 7 reflex, no heal amp, no greensteel tred toaster ? :-)

    Thanks for proving my point

  15. #35
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    Thanks sirgog.


    Setup for reflex:
    Helm: PDK
    Goggles: Min2 Goggles
    Necklace: Grim's Bracelet (+2 goodluck)
    Trinket: Litany of the Dead
    Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf
    Armor: Terrorweb Chitin Breastplate*
    Bracers: 30% heal amp/superior parrying
    Gloves: Nether Grasps
    Belt: FB set
    Ring1: FB set (20% amp)
    Ring2: 2con+5combat master Dunrobar/2dex Avithoul
    Boots: EE Treads of Falling Shadow

    Horc stats would be:
    20str
    12dex
    16con
    7int**
    8wis
    7cha**

    dex=12+1litany/exc+8treads+3treads=24+4tome=28-10=18/2=9

    6base+4supparrying+6terrorweb+4gh+2goodluck+2brace forimpact+6magisterreflex+1haste=31+9dex=40reflex+ 6uncanny dodge=46 for 30secs

    Not the best, but workable. Make sure you ask for blur from your friendly neighborhood arcaneman.


    *Went with Terrorweb Chitin since it actually does have a mdb of 10, so 10% dodge, medium prr, and allows +9 dex reflex makes it attractive. The Parasitic Breatplate I don't like so much since it offers nothing else beside the extra 4 reflex.

    **I do this to have above 10 stats with +4 tomes so I don't need Litany for SF pots. Can take those 2 ability points and put them into dex for another reflex. Add another reflex if you have a 36pt build.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  16. #36
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfORCastrator View Post
    I personally went with more dodge than the prr difference between medium and light armor.
    Me too and it only worked out being about 5% less mitigation.

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