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  1. #1
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    Default Need help with new char

    Hello, im making a new char to fit in a party with a 2h dps paladin and a sorcerer(they are slowly leveling and are lvl 6 atm)
    I need something that can search and disable traps for them, so I wanna know what are my options?
    Can I do it with something else other than pure rogue/rogue-ranger. It would be great if someone can point me to a couple of builds. We are all new so I don't have 32p build or any stuff from the store.
    Thank you for your help!

  2. #2
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Go 1 Rogue.

    Then Wizard from 2-8 minimum.

    I'm not sure myself of the best level to take the second Rogue Level - I'm sure others will know though.

    You're looking at 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue at cap. {Not counting Epic of course}.

    Elf - Max Int, Go for 12 Con and 14 Dex

    Take Toughness at Lvl 1

    Have Fun!

    P.S. Nimble Fingers and Skill Focus Disable {Feats} are Newbie traps - Completely unnecessary if you take the time to make sure you get the right gear from the AH {Goggles of Minute Seeing and Goggles or Gloves of Disabling} - Usually pretty cheaply available comparatively. {Rings tend to be more expensive}.

    +5 Thieves Tools are also widely available on the AH - Can be found for as little as 500 plat regularly.

  3. #3
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    You could go with the 18/2 wiz/rogue. It would depend honestly if both are WF. If not both WF then going 17/2/1 cleric/rogue/fighter could fit the bill and allow you guys to short man quests.

    Not sure if you have 32 pt builds or not, as that would be nice to have although not necessary for this to work. Human would be best for the extra skill point and extra feat.

    Tomes would also help or enough plat to buy some +1. Taking into consideration a 28 pt Human with the ability to look for a +1 tome for two stats by level 7.

    Str - 14 - With divine power and divine favor when needed to help melee.
    Dex - 8
    Con - 15 + 1 tome at level 3
    Int - 16
    Wis - 15 +1 tome at level 7
    Chr- 8

    If you have 32 pt build you would be able to forgo the +1 tomes and start at 16 con and 16 wisdom

    Take rogue first level for roughly 44 skill points. Keep Disable device maxed out, Search to a total of 16 as you will have a spell that will give you +9 to search called find trap spell, concentration maxed out to help with scroll healing. Once you have search at 16 take balance to a total of 10. After this you will probably have some left over to go to spot or swim or whatever you want.

    Level 1 rogue, level 2 through 13 cleric, 14 rogue, 15 to 19 cleric, 20 FIghter

    Toughness
    Insightful reflexes

    Level 3
    Empower healing

    Level 6

    maximize

    Level 9

    empower

    Level 12

    Quicken

    Level 15

    Mental toughness - more sp to help with healing and offensive casting duties

    Level 18 - improved mental toughness

    Level 20 -

    Shield mastery

    Level 21 -

    Improved shield mastery

    Level 24 -

    Epic mental toughness

    This will give you a party member that will be able to get traps, I had problems with Cabal, but I have seen pure rogues have problems with that chest. You will be able to heal great and when needed melee a bit with the extra double strike and if needed for defense, full armor, tower shield for great PRR and AC.

    You could go with Dwarf and instead of the fighter go 1 wizard to get master touch on tower shields and dwarven war axes
    Last edited by Mubjon; 12-01-2012 at 01:38 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Two characters in group already, paladin and sorcerer -- what the group is begging for is a cleric or favored soul. This will balance the group better than adding in a wizard.

    Search and disable device are INT based skills. However, a high INT is NOT required in order to be successful in either skill. What is needed is level appropriate gear and skill boosts.

    Go with a human cleric. Stat distribution is 8 STR 14 DEX 16 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 8 CHA on a 28 point build. First level is rogue, next 9 levels are cleric, L11 is rogue and then cleric for remaining levels. Stat increases are in WIS.

    Feat and enhancement choices are up to you but you are working on getting the Radiant Servant PrE from Cleric, so pay attention to the requirements. Ignore Rogue skill boost, instead choose Human Versatility to get skill boosts to help with rogue skills.

    You will be sufficiently good on all traps if you visit the auction house and buy up level appropriate search and disable gear. Petition your server for thieves tools or concentrate on getting Free Agent favor. There are an abundance of people with +5 thieves tools that will never use them -- they are likely to give you several hundred.

    Free Agent favor lets you buy +4 tools. The price is pretty cheap. Don't waste time buying tools from the AH unless their buyout is less.

    High WIS means you'll have sufficient DC to be effective with offensive spells as they come along.

    Normally a rogue/cleric isn't a great idea. But, if you are planning it as part of a group this will give you the most synergy with the existing characters and provide a stronger group.

  5. #5
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    You don't need a high Int to get traps so long as you can keep your skills and gear maxed. I suspect the latter will be difficult for you as a newer player and the former will be difficult depending on the class you pick. For instance, clerics only get 2 base skill points per level, and get neither Search nor Disable as class skills. This means as a human you need 4 - 2 - 1 = 1 Int mod = 12 base Int stat to maintain both skills for all levels, and this is with 0 points spent in Concentration. You can let them slack off and catch up with your second rogue level, but this necessarily means you will have that much more trouble on traps until you do.

    For this and other reasons, I would alter Therigar's plan to 12 Str 12 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha. With 14 Int on a human you get 5 skill points per cleric level, enough to keep Search, Disable, and Concentration maxed, which lets you instead catch up in things like Open Lock and Spot with your Rogue levels. 14 to 16 Wis is not going to make a significant difference in your offensive spellcasting, clerics don't make great offensive casters anyway and you're already behind with spell pen.

    You can do traps on any build, it's just a matter of keeping your skills up and what you have to give up to get your Int high enough to do so. A Paladin trapper is hard because they only get 2 and get so much out of so many other stats. A Ranger trapper is easy because they get 6 (and Search as a class skill) and get GTWF for free, so have less Dex pressure.

  6. #6
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Kinerd has a good point regarding skill points. However, IMO STR and CHA are both black holes and wasted build points for this specific case. There are 6 build points used there that would be better spent on keeping DEX at 14 and pushing WIS to 16.

    I typically argue that losing a point of DC is unimportant. But, that is generally when talking a 16 stat start vs an 18 stat start. I would not suggest dropping as low as 14.

    If you feel the need to keep points maxed in both Search and Disable Device then you invest your build points this way: 8 STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 8 CHA. However, I would not even do that.

    Instead I would focus on Search and let Disable Device languish slightly behind. Early level quests do not have especially high disable DCs. By stocking up on +5 tools you will gain +7 on your disable DC. Combined with skill boost from Human Versatility, heroism from potions and Fox's Cunning (or INT item) your DD should be high enough until you take the second rogue level.

    Also, although it may seem impractical at the moment, obtaining +2 tomes is not especially difficult. Using one at L7 will increase the number of skill points from 3 to 4 on cleric levels. On your second rogue level it will give you 10 skill points to work with.

    IMO this is sufficient. I don't agree with the need for concentration, mostly because I assume that the character will ultimately take Quicken which has more value in later quests and is almost a "requirement" on any divine character regardless.

    Spot does not need to be kept high or get added to because it is a WIS skill. This means that improving WIS on top of the initial 4 skill points given to it at L1 is going to be sufficient. If there is a real feeling of need for Spot then careful planning and a high spot item in an otherwise useless spot (perhaps goggles where you can swap spot, search, disable and reflex items as needed) will get the job done.

    Bottom line is that I think there is no real reason to alter the stat distribution from the original suggestion.

    Regarding tomes, +2 tomes will be listed for >100k plat but don't usually bring that. If you wait you'll find them in the ~70k range where a single bid will usually win the item. If a character cannot accumulate 70k plat by L6 then the player is just spending willy-nilly on stuff. The secret to using the AH is to shop often and wait to buy until you see the item priced low. If possible buy before you need the item (like a level early) so that it is available when you level up.

    The other thing to do with tomes is to talk to your guild or to the players you regularly interact with. You will be amazed at how many just have them sitting around. Now that you don't need to use tomes over again after a TR many players have an excess of tomes sitting in banks that they had planned to use (but don't need to use any more).

    Anyways, I always plan on tomes being available and used at appropriate levels. Taking that into consideration along with my preference for Quicken explains why I suggest the original 8 STR 14 DEX 16 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 8 CHA stat distribution.

    Once more, this is a very specific situation so don't take it as general build advice. For this specific player and the 3 character group I think this is a better build choice.

  7. #7
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    1. The OP has stated that he/she only has 28pt builds and f2p races {this seems to be the same for his/her companions}.

    2. If they're running Normal or Hard Trapping isn't going to be a problem - On Elite you do need a decent Int at least {Unless you've somehow managed to max your gear at every Level!}.

    3. Clerics are one of the worst classes to splash Rogue on {we're talking about a 28pt first life character here}.

    4. They have a Paladin in group already - Wands, Cures, Lay on Hands!

    5. A Cleric Hireling {of suitable Level} is quite capable of keeping a group of 3 healed through MOST content {Pre Epic!}.

    18/2 Ranger/Rogue would work - Gives a bit more healing BUT does require Multi-Attributes.
    18/2 Wiz/Rogue however - Max Int, Decent Con and Dex and you're sorted.

    Elf gets Spell Pen and SP Bonuses.
    Human gets an extra feat {2 higher base Con available too}.
    If Human - I'd take Insightful Reflexes as my Bonus Feat and up my Str or Cha at Dex's expense.

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    The best solution is artificer, but if you are F2P only, then stick with pure rogue. You can UMD wands for some healing in a couple of levels, and eventually heal scrolls, get all the traps, and provide awesome dps to match the others. You will be squishy and have to learn to let the paladin get aggro, but trash mobs will fall like wheat to your sneak attacks.

  9. #9
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    If they're running Normal or Hard Trapping isn't going to be a problem - On Elite you do need a decent Int at least {Unless you've somehow managed to max your gear at every Level!}.
    The caveat -- unless you've somehow managed to max your gear at every level -- is precisely what the character should be doing. What else would it be investing in?

    Paladin healing is a joke. It is great for the paladin and useful in an emergency, but it is no answer to group healing requirements. But, the biggest error is in thinking of cleric as a healbot.

    Cleric brings spells to the group that are not otherwise available -- and that the hireling cleric isn't going to provide. Unless the trio is part of a larger guild simple buffs like energy protection/resistance are going to be of value. More important buffs like freedom of movement or true seeing won't even come from ship buffs. You are not going to get those types of buffs out of hirelings. But, what is more important is that -- with dungeon scaling -- having the hirelings actually increases quest difficulty.

    At later levels the cleric's blade barrier, divine punishment, cometfall -- these are all going to be of great value to the group. Again, you aren't getting these out of hirelings, especially not maximized, heightened and empowered so that they do meaningful damage.

  10. #10
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Regarding Search DC, consider this:

    02 from 8 base INT with +6 INT item
    18 search skill points at L15
    04 greater heroism from Planar Gird (or sorcerer)
    01 luck bonus from Voice of the Master (or prayer spell)
    05 skill boost from human versatility
    03 skill focus: search
    01 search enhancement
    15 item with minute seeing +15
    --
    49 search DC finds any trap with DC of 50 or less at character L15.

    Now, refer to this article for info on rogue skills. Notice the section on High Water Marks. A search of 44 is enough for all heroic content.

    So, there is absolutely no reason to worry about INT. It absolutely is not needed.

    BTW, I'm not sure about the cleric's Find Trap spell. If it works as described that would add +6 to the search for a 55 making even the elite Cabal trap in reach. A +2 INT boost from a ship buff or exceptional bonus would get it there.

    Of course, disabling is a bit different. But note again that the trap in Cabal is the gold standard. We don't even expect all rogues to be able to get that trap at level.

    02 from 8 base INT with +6 INT item
    18 disable device skill points at L15
    04 greater heroism from Planar Gird (or sorcerer)
    01 luck bonus from Voice of the Master (or prayer spell)
    05 skill boost from human versatility
    03 skill focus: disable device
    01 disable device enhancement
    15 item with disable device +15
    07 +5 thieves tools
    --
    56 disable device DC disables any trap with DC of 57 or less at character L15.

    Notice that this is enough for everything but 2 traps on heroic elite (Cabal and Foundation of Discord).

    And, note that I am showing this with a starting INT of 8.

    If OP builds as recommended with a 10 base INT and uses the recommended +2 tome they gain 2 more on each DC -- meaning there is no trap they cannot find and only 2 they probably won't disarm in every piece of heroic content.
    Last edited by Therigar; 12-02-2012 at 12:16 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Last point for now. Someone is going to bring up epic content.

    IMO that is fine but a reach for the OP and their group right at this time. With 28 point characters and basic character race choices their focus is first and foremost on heroic content. The build advice needs to focus on that.

    It really doesn't matter if the character cannot get epic traps. The fact is that it probably will be able to get many epic level traps because there are 5 more skill points available for both search and disable device. On top of that, there are +8 stat items, +4 tomes and exceptional and insight bonuses to INT as well. So, if the character is able to hold its own on heroic elite content it will hang tough in epic normal with some certainty and perhaps even epic hard.

    And, let's be realistic, these are the epic difficulties that 28 point builds are probably going to be running -- unless they join a larger group. And, in a larger group there is every probability that a better trap monkey will be available.

    So, I'll reiterate. The group begs for a cleric or favored soul. Cleric makes better sense because a) it is free and b) it is more versatile and c) it gets spells earlier and more of them. This means cleric can afford the rogue splash.

    Splashing rogue on a cleric for most builds is not recommended. But, the unique circumstances of the group make it the best overall choice.

  12. #12
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    The instant you mentioned - http://ddowiki.com/page/Planar_Gird you lost all right to talk about newbies!

    Do you have any idea how many times I've run Xorian Cypher with 25 Characters on Cannith {all Lvl 7 or higher}, 10 on Sarlona {all at least Lvl 10} and many others on other servers and who've since been deleted?

    And how many times I've seen that drop?

    ONCE! I've seen it drop ONCE!

    Standard AH prices for it tend to be 250k plat if you're lucky!

    As for Rogue gear - Things have got much easier recently thanks to items dropping with lower min levels {Ignore Crafting we're talking about Newbies here} BUT they still have to be found / bought from AH with Plat!

    http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informat...raps_and_locks - Possibly out of date now BUT:

    Durk's Got a Secret - Acid Trap - Crit Fail on a 29, Success on a 34! {Yes I know it's optional}.
    Lvl 4 Pure Rogue: 10 Int. {Not in a Guild}.
    7 - Skills
    2 - Fox's Cunning Pot {or +4 Int item}
    2 - Imp Disable II Enhancement
    5 - Best Min Lvl 3 Disabling Item {unless seriously lucky}.
    7 - +5 Thieves Tools {500 plat on AH regularly}
    2 - Rogue Skill Boost 1 {Or if Human - Versatility}
    Rogue has to roll a 9 to disable said trap - Will Crit Fail on a 4 or lower!
    And that's a PURE ROGUE!
    {If he/she has Skill Boost/Versatility 2 - add another point - Still blows up the box on a 3!}.

    Yes Veterans {if they aren't overconfident} can get every trap while dumping Int - It's terrible advice to tell a newbie to dump Int though!

    1. Items go into the first available space in your inventory when you pick them up - Make sure your +5 Tools are in the top left spot on your first page so Masterworks don't get put in front of them.

    2. Fox's Cunning and Heroism Pots get used up - Make sure you have a good supply before questing.

    3. Some Quests have a lot of traps - Skill Boost can run out - Use the Shrines!

    4. A Lvl 4 Newbie Rogue is far more likely to have a +3 Disable/Search item than a +5. +7s are possible But rare!

    5. Dumping Int requires that you max gear - Even with an Int of 14-16 Base there's still traps in the game where you'll need virtually maxed gear!

    Once past lvl 15 {Cabal for One Elite} Trap DCs stop going up - New Epics may have changed this but no-one's definitively said so to my knowledge.
    At end game you may decide to redo your Rogue/Rogue Splash to remove certain Enhancements or Drop your Int a coupla points BUT those first 15 Levels are just as important as End-Game in my opinion.

  13. #13
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    The instant you mentioned - http://ddowiki.com/page/Planar_Gird you lost all right to talk about newbies!
    I have two at the present time. Have never been on a server where I didn't have at least 1. I think you complain too much and are just looking for something to nit-pick about. Note that the group has a sorcerer who can cast GH if needed -- so gird isn't even a requirement.

    Complaining about optional traps isn't going to convince me that there is a problem with the advice. Let's stay focused on traps that need to be disabled. If we do that then there are very, very few in the game at all. Even your Durk's chest can be gotten to without disabling the trap -- if you know how. This being a lesson learned out of necessity when running the quest w/o a rogue at all.

    Meanwhile, the one trap in Durk's that "must" be disabled has a DC of ~23 which is easily attainable. Note that even that one does not have to be disabled, it is a one time trap and a character with sufficient HP (or evasion and HP) and fire protection/resistance can set it off and survive.

    Point here is that you are making something out of nothing and picking examples for things that are not even required. It sounds "oh so scary." But, it really is not at all.

    The simple fact is that high INT is not needed for any rogue -- new player or experienced it does not matter. Thinking that it does and claiming that it does is the epitome of bad advice. No trap monkey should ever stack INT for the purpose of search and disable.

    There are reasons to increase INT but search and disable are not among them. And, in this case absolutely not needed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I have two at the present time. Have never been on a server where I didn't have at least 1. I think you complain too much and are just looking for something to nit-pick about. Note that the group has a sorcerer who can cast GH if needed -- so gird isn't even a requirement.

    Complaining about optional traps isn't going to convince me that there is a problem with the advice. Let's stay focused on traps that need to be disabled. If we do that then there are very, very few in the game at all. Even your Durk's chest can be gotten to without disabling the trap -- if you know how. This being a lesson learned out of necessity when running the quest w/o a rogue at all.

    Meanwhile, the one trap in Durk's that "must" be disabled has a DC of ~23 which is easily attainable. Note that even that one does not have to be disabled, it is a one time trap and a character with sufficient HP (or evasion and HP) and fire protection/resistance can set it off and survive.

    Point here is that you are making something out of nothing and picking examples for things that are not even required. It sounds "oh so scary." But, it really is not at all.

    The simple fact is that high INT is not needed for any rogue -- new player or experienced it does not matter. Thinking that it does and claiming that it does is the epitome of bad advice. No trap monkey should ever stack INT for the purpose of search and disable.

    There are reasons to increase INT but search and disable are not among them. And, in this case absolutely not needed.
    Intelligence is needed for skill points. The more you have as a cleric/rogue the better off you are going to be. Yes you do not need much to just get disable and search, but having balance and concentration is nice. Taking balance to 10 and then pumping up something else is just great.

    I have built and played an 17/2/1 cleric/rogue/fighter and it did quite well for what it was built for. It allowed me to join a group and provide two key elements that most groups are looking for, someone to grab those traps that are absolutely needed and someone to provide in combat healing when needed.

    And yes the find trap spell works as it describes it takes half the caster level and adds it to your search skill as well as allowing a cleric to find traps that are over 20 DC much like a rogue, so you do not really need the rogue level to search for a trap box with that spell.

    A 18/2 cleric/rogue can add +9 to their search at cap. Meaning that it is recommended to add that to your figures when planning out your divine trapper.

    So, while intelligence being higher than 12 on a human is not needed to max out disable and search and 14 will allow you to get max search, disable and concentration. A 16 will allow you to get search, disable, concentration and then 10 to balance, jump to 7 (add a +6 strength item to make this 10 and +30 from a friendly mage casting the spell) and some into haggle to help when selling.
    Last edited by Mubjon; 12-02-2012 at 05:19 AM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mubjon View Post
    And yes the find trap spell works as it describes it takes half the caster level and adds it to your search skill as well as allowing a cleric to find traps that are over 20 DC much like a rogue, so you do not really need the rogue level to search for a trap box with that spell.
    TY for that confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mubjon View Post
    So, while intelligence being higher than 12 on a human is not needed to max out disable and search and 14 will allow you to get max search, disable and concentration. A 16 will allow you to get search, disable, concentration and then 10 to balance, jump to 7 (add a +6 strength item to make this 10 and +30 from a friendly mage casting the spell) and some into haggle to help when selling.
    And, if the OP had 32 points to build with I would argue for increased INT. But, they say that they do not.

    So the question becomes one of where do you skimp in order to gain the extra build points. IMO it is a mistake to drop either CON or WIS for a new player. The best alternative, if this is what a player really wants is increased INT, is to drop DEX. This requires taking Insightful Reflexes as a feat.

    That would not be entirely bad. It really is a question of what feats to select for the build. As this is something that I did not flesh out (but left to the OP to work out for themself) it is certainly another route to consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    TY for that confirmation.



    And, if the OP had 32 points to build with I would argue for increased INT. But, they say that they do not.

    So the question becomes one of where do you skimp in order to gain the extra build points. IMO it is a mistake to drop either CON or WIS for a new player. The best alternative, if this is what a player really wants is increased INT, is to drop DEX. This requires taking Insightful Reflexes as a feat.

    That would not be entirely bad. It really is a question of what feats to select for the build. As this is something that I did not flesh out (but left to the OP to work out for themself) it is certainly another route to consider.
    While I gave him a 32 pt build in the layout I gave, did it by accident as i was going off of a build I had done before. The stats would be something like this, and yes he would need a +1 tome at level 7 which is fairly easy to get on the AH for about 20K plat.

    Str - 12
    Dex - 8
    Con - 14
    Int - 16
    Wis - 15
    Chr - 8

    Conversely he could lower intelligence to 15 and raise Wisdom to 16, grabbing a +1 Int tome by level 7 to make that a 16 and get the extra skill point to help boost more skills.

    14 is enough to give 5 skill points though, so that is the mimimum he should start with. Allowing the new 28 pt build to either increase wisdom to 16, con to 15 or con to 16 and str to 14. Many different ways to go with this.

    Of course could go 17/2/1 Cleric/rogue/Fighter and go dwarf and really get interesting with being able to use Dwarven war axes and tower shields when low on SP and needing to melee a bit. But that would require an intelligence of 16 to start with to get the 5 skill points for maxing out search, disable and concentration or balance. The key though is to really build for grabbing traps and healing parties during combat. The 12 strength is to just help when SP is low and needs require some melee, or the party is having a hard time and you have to fight your way to the shrine because the party was not up to the task.

  17. #17
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    If I were going to build with an eye towards INT rather than DEX I would go with stats like this: 8 STR 8 DEX 15 CON 16 INT 16 WIS 8 CHA. Then use a +1 CON tome to even out the stat and automatically back fill the missing HP. The tome can really be taken at any time, or alternatively use Human Adaptability to grab +1 CON.

    By staying with Human the feats become:

    L1 Toughness & Insightful Reflexes
    L3 Empower Healing
    L6 Maximize
    L9-15 Quicken, Heighten, Empower in whatever order you want
    L18 One of (maybe) Extend, Skill Focus: Disable Device, Nimble Fingers, Toughness, Combat Expertise or whatever else a player wants.

    For melee moments it is probably more useful to go for high crit weapons that give some crowd control effects. I don't see a whole lot of benefit to 12 STR over 8 STR in that regard. The +2 to hit/to damage probably won't matter as much as the multiple weapon procs from a high crit weapon. Rapier would be my choice as proficiency is granted automatically to rogues. A Rad II or Lit II might be my preferred weapon. But any rapier with multiple procs would work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    If I were going to build with an eye towards INT rather than DEX I would go with stats like this: 8 STR 8 DEX 15 CON 16 INT 16 WIS 8 CHA. Then use a +1 CON tome to even out the stat and automatically back fill the missing HP. The tome can really be taken at any time, or alternatively use Human Adaptability to grab +1 CON.

    By staying with Human the feats become:

    L1 Toughness & Insightful Reflexes
    L3 Empower Healing
    L6 Maximize
    L9-15 Quicken, Heighten, Empower in whatever order you want
    L18 One of (maybe) Extend, Skill Focus: Disable Device, Nimble Fingers, Toughness, Combat Expertise or whatever else a player wants.

    For melee moments it is probably more useful to go for high crit weapons that give some crowd control effects. I don't see a whole lot of benefit to 12 STR over 8 STR in that regard. The +2 to hit/to damage probably won't matter as much as the multiple weapon procs from a high crit weapon. Rapier would be my choice as proficiency is granted automatically to rogues. A Rad II or Lit II might be my preferred weapon. But any rapier with multiple procs would work.
    for bursts it is nice to have the following feats

    Empower healing - well mandatory to take this on a cleric for the only pRE that we have.
    Maximize
    quicken

    other feats that are great to have for a cleric/rogue

    Toughness
    Insightful reflexes - helps make use of that higher intelligence and allows the character to keep dex a dump stat.

    That does leave two feats for a character to take. If concentrating on just healing then Empower and mental toughness, improved mental toughness are great choices. If going for some blade barrier dmg, spell pen and SF: evo, mental toughness.

    I would think for someone that is just a healer/trapper that taking mental toughness and improved mental toughness and then taking shield mastery and epic mental toughness would make the most sense.

    +2 to hit is a big benefit as far as I am concerned, but not as large as being able to take an debuff to strength and still keep going

    I would recommend the mental toughness feats for a healer because 400 more sp is fairly nice to have.
    Last edited by Mubjon; 12-02-2012 at 11:42 AM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mubjon View Post
    +2 to hit is a big benefit as far as I am concerned, but not as large as being able to take an debuff to strength and still keep going
    I think the number of places where this is likely to happen (the STR debuff) is pretty small and Restoration takes care of it if/when the debuff happens.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I think the number of places where this is likely to happen (the STR debuff) is pretty small and Restoration takes care of it if/when the debuff happens.
    I have ran into it quite a bit lately with a few of mobs in the same group draining my strength to near 0 in a a few attacks on my 8 str cleric. I do have a +6 item and +2 from ship buff on that one and having some problems in the mid levels.

    I do not remember it being an issue in the later levels, but right now I am running into a lot on this life. Unless they changed some of the mobs in Necro to where they drain strength now first. Even running with a deathblock item and deathward does not seem to be protecting me.

    So yes you can drink a pot if needed, but if there happens to be another mob like a shadow around you can be one shotted before you get that pot drank.

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