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  1. #1

    Default Poll: Do you expect arcanes to be self-sufficient?

    Doesn't matter if you play a divine, or even an arcane. Just curious if, when an arcane joins a party you're in, do you expect that arcane to be self-sufficient?

    I'm currently having a debate where it's been pointed out that arcanes being self-sufficient is MY expectation. It certainly is, but I also was under the impression it's the majority opinion. So I figured I'd start a poll to see if it's just me.

    Simple yes or no will suffice, but a more detailed response is of course welcome.

    (If level+difficulty matters, let's say gianthold elite for bravery as the baseline.)

  2. #2
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Depends

  3. #3
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Yes, while on my healers you'd better tell me if you're not self healing because I won't throw a heal your way otherwise.
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  4. #4
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    If they are a wizard, I generally expect them to be self-sufficient and won't even look at their HP bars much unless they say they're an archmage, then I will heal them as necessary - similarly, I'll heal a sorc if necessary. Generally, though, I assume that by end-game, a caster should be able to be self-sufficient, though not necessarily able to self-heal through heavy damage spikes.
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    Community Member Nickademus42's Avatar
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    For bravery, no. Elite is about teamwork and focusing on your strengths while others cover your weaknesses.

    For BYOH, Be self-sufficient, wilderness slayers, zerg favor runs, or chest/ED xp farming, yes. It was either stated ahead of time to be self-sufficient or it is assumed the power of the characters participating exceeds the challenge enough to disregard teamwork.

    For Epic Elite, no. If an arcane is self-sufficient there, they don't need my party.

    I give First-lifers more slack for not being self-sufficient since they might be new players or under geared.
    I give TRs less slack since they should have more knowledge of how to maximize their survival.
    Though neither are exempt.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Depends on the LFM.

    'Zerg, splitting up, BYOH' groups - yes. I expect them to be self-sufficient (but will of course help if they get unlucky).

    Someone else's LFM that isn't like that - no.

    Epic elite content I expect them to be self-sufficient except against overwhelming numbers of mobs.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  7. #7
    The Hatchery IntrepidBear's Avatar
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    I healed everyone

    I've also been a cleric and an arcane.
    I usually tell the cleric if I'm ok healing myself at certain times while on my arcane.
    I've had one healer be very concerned when my sorc suddenly got major agro, ( in a elite shroud)
    but I knew I could heal myself, and told him to just watch the others and I was alright. ( close call, but I recovered ok lol.. )

    While on my cleric, I've had arcanes tell me in quests when they won't need my services.
    I still kept an eye on them.
    If someone is new, or low level, I healed them without question.

    It depends on the situation too, if there are a couple players needing full attention, then others will know they may not get the healing right away or we wipe.
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  8. #8
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    Usually yes.

    Content difficulty may very this a bit, but usually follows as:

    - Is the arcane WF? If yes then I expect not to have to worry about thier health unless they are tripped or otherwise unable to cast.

    - Is the arcane a Sorc? If yes then I expect they have the umd to self heal mostly.

    - Is the arcane a Wiz? If yes I usually ask if they are a PM or AM. PM I expect to self heal, whereas a fleshy AM is going to have some difficulty getting decent self healing (unless they happen to be a half-elf with clr dille).

    All that aside I generally expect an arcane to take care of themself because they have the tools to enable themselves very hard to damage.
    Blur/Displace
    Stoneskin
    CC abilities
    Charm abilities
    etc, etc

    When played well I've noticed many arcanes seemingly take no damage at all while contributing strongly to the group. I do see glass cannons pop up once and a bit, but they usually get frustrated and either learn to play better or play a different class.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Yes. If you can opt for self-sufficiency in any class at no loss, I expect you to be self-sufficient.
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  10. #10
    Sketchy Adventurer aradelothion's Avatar
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    Quick question: are you taking self-sufficiency to mean just self-healing? Or being able to provide all his/her necessary buffs as well?

    I generally categorize it into two: there's in-combat self sufficiency (ICSS), and out-of-combat self sufficiency (OOCSS). ICSS can mean reliable self-healing and pretty much being able to stay alive without much outside help, be it due to tactics, abilities, gear, build, whatnot. I classify under OOCSS buffs, being able to top themselves off.

    Depending on prestige and race, there is a certain point where yes, I expect arcanes (including myself) to be fully self sufficient. If they have TR wings, that point is pretty much from level 1, no matter what class they rolled. For first lifers, WF Sorcs/AMs and Pale Masters can do both with ease via Quickened sp-based heals. Fleshy Sorcerers can eventually scroll Heal scrolls no-fail, but fleshy Archmages will have a hard time getting their UMD high enough. This is assuming they know about UMD in the first place.
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    absolutely

  12. #12
    Community Member dirtphillips's Avatar
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    Expect? No

    However, most are PM or WF and can thus heal through even damage spikes. I usually ask if I am unsure.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Always.

    If I find out otherwise, I'll try to accommodate them.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    I always assume they are unless they specify otherwise. However as long as they are good at what they do I don't mind healing them as I would anybody else in the party.

    An arcane that comes in expecting heals though and that makes no attempts to reduce their agro and avoid damage I'll avoid in the future.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Nickademus42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aradelothion View Post
    Quick question: are you taking self-sufficiency to mean just self-healing?
    I'm getting the impression that the OP meant this, or at least the thread is heavily leaning that way. My definition of self-sufficient is more encompassing that what is being addressed here, so I'll withdraw my vote from the poll as it is largely irrelevant. My answer to the poll would simply be: depends. Too many undefined variables.

  16. #16
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickademus42 View Post
    I'm getting the impression that the OP meant this, or at least the thread is heavily leaning that way. My definition of self-sufficient is more encompassing that what is being addressed here, so I'll withdraw my vote from the poll as it is largely irrelevant. My answer to the poll would simply be: depends. Too many undefined variables.
    My assumption was self-healing, because outside of a few divine buffs that aren't easily obtainable (namely, FoM), an arcane should be able to provide a majority of their needed buffs.
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  17. #17
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Absolutely yes, 100%.

    Wizard archmage-go WF if you have it, if you don't have WF, just go f2p fleshie+palemaster
    Wizard palemaster-can self heal, and do just about anything solo.

    Either way, a wizard should be able to self heal. Fleshie archmages that cannot self heal make me livid with their poor decision making. Ie, you coulda been AWESOME! but you chose to be MEH.

    Sorcs...either UMD or reconstruct...no excuses there. Wand/pot yourself at low levels before then.

    Any and all of those options do very little to compromise your primary character responsibilities, be they dps, CC, instakills, etc. I don't expect that barb in a raid to self heal as is difficult to build for, and moreover it effects their DPS quite a bit. Arcanes, not so much.


    There is no excuse for not healing yourself as an arcane, other than the typical "I am ungeared" or "I have a bad build" but those are not real excuses that is just mediocrity.

    You will get the odd non-selfhealing fleshie archmage defending their choice but considering how powerful (and fun!) self healing is, I find it hard to take them seriously.

    When on a divine, I ignore arcanes redbars unless they say something. If the arcane keeps dying and not healing themselves, in my experience, they are fairly useless anyway. Any semi-intelligent person builds for self healing on an arcane so if they are not self healing, they are usually ***** at other tasks arcanes usually have.

    If a non self-healing arcane always has their hand held by the divine, they will never learn to fend for themselves. They will never learn to be awesome. I'm just the enforcer of natural selection .

  18. #18
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    No.

    I expect nothing while PUGing.

    I will, however, do what I can to show the importance of self-sufficiency to people I run with often.

  19. #19
    Community Member MaximumCharisma's Avatar
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    No
    Yusif and Secondlife of Sarlona

  20. #20
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    its assumed that arcanes are self sufficient since thats the type that gets played a lot, or so it seems to me. the self healing arcane builds are capable to heal up quickly without the need for pots much like a divine can. aside from the obvious "everyone needs to be self sufficient regardless of class", it should be a kind thing to do to tell whoever is the party healer wether they are or are not self sufficient.

    if the arcane doesnt say anything, nothing wrong with the healer asking either. it takes a whole 2 seconds to ask. if i played an arcane, i would just tell the group regardless because other players in the group may be capable of throwing some heals and some like to help spot heal or may need to take over the job if the healer goes down or if there is no actual healer the group knows they dont need to help if the arcane gets in a jam since, say a ranger, wont have harm spell and wont waste cure spell points.

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