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Thread: Wf ?

  1. #21
    Community Member Nouda_EU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullzz View Post
    See my join date is 2007 other then wf the general statement holds.
    Maybe since they were the selling point then wanting money for the selling point makes sense.

    But hey who knows other than turbine sales force.
    soory no offence was intended just point out the facts
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  2. #22
    Community Member xveganrox's Avatar
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    There's a big problem with Warforged and there always has been. The latest healing nerf on them hurt them, but it didn't fix the problem.

    The problem is that Warforged is by far the best race for sorcerers (and non-PM wizards) - there's really no competition in sheer power between a human/drow/anything sorcerer and a WF sorcerer, and beyond flavor or some very very specific builds (which would be less viable than the WF sorcerer in most situations) there's no reason to play a non-WF sorcerer.

    Unfortunately, the other side of this is that WF is not the best race for the other classes. Turbine sends more nerfs to WF to keep WF sorcerers from being "too powerful" but in doing so dooms every other WF. WF fighters, barbs, rogues, clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, and bards are flavor builds, because of the huge penalties associated with WF (not to mention equipment restrictions). Wizard and FvS WF were still very solid, but got hit hard by the nerfs and are now less so, and the only class that really gets the full benefits from WF is sorcerer (and archmage Wiz).

    Anything Turbine does to weaken WF just makes absolutely sure nobody plays one as anything other than an arcane, which actually just compounds the problem they're trying to fix.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by xveganrox View Post
    The problem is that Warforged is by far the best race for sorcerers (and non-PM wizards) - there's really no competition in sheer power between a human/drow/anything sorcerer and a WF sorcerer,
    i cant agree with this ... ive seen people who are serious about sorcs ( completionests for example ) and all going human .. and saying that WF is the best race for archmages is not valid since "archmages" is not the way to go on a wizard, not anymore at least

    my point was human is a F2p race and they are usable on more classes than the WF "p2p" race , which is ridiculously silly since you'll be expecting you spent your tps on something that will give you a better option than the f2p stuff whatever they are .
    Zarooth

  4. #24
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xprincezuman View Post
    i cant agree with this ... ive seen people who are serious about sorcs ( completionests for example ) and all going human .. and saying that WF is the best race for archmages is not valid since "archmages" is not the way to go on a wizard, not anymore at least

    my point was human is a F2p race and they are usable on more classes than the WF "p2p" race , which is ridiculously silly since you'll be expecting you spent your tps on something that will give you a better option than the f2p stuff whatever they are .
    IMO warforged are excellent choices for either sorcerer or wizard. They are extremely easy to use with either arcane as a base onto which an additional class is splashed in order to pursue completionist. Of course, the addition of epic destinies has changed the focus for a number of players. However, if the goal is heroic content until L20 and then reincarnate a warforged arcane base with deep splash of some other class (typically followed by a LR5 then a TR) is still an easy button to completionist.

    WF make excellent choices for a number of character classes. The situation is that there is a certain "culture" that has developed across most servers -- and seen here in the forums -- which relegates certain classes to specific race choices as "ideal." We tend to forget that not everyone has the same ultimate goal state as we do.

    I find warforged to be an excellent platform for wizard, sorcerer, artificer, monk, barbarian and favored soul. If I remember that not everyone builds to run epic elite or to have the absolutely perfect flavor of the moment then I cannot help but fall back on these as solid, reliable builds that manage to still function well regardless of the changes that occur with DDO over time.

    This isn't to say that other races don't also have their advantages. But, it is to say that denigrating one race or the other really just reflects the momentary changes that take place as the game evolves. None of the races is so clearly superior or so clearly inferior that players cannot make solid builds regardless of race choice.

    The question really is, "Why are warforged P2P?" And, the answer is, "Because they are." It doesn't have to do with the superiority of the race or the inferiority of the race. It simply is what it is -- Turbine chose to make warforged a store bought race and so that is what it is.

    Now, we can speculate on the reasons for that decision. But, it really doesn't matter WHY it is a store item. It only matters that it IS.

    The hidden question is, "Why should I buy warforged?" And that answer will vary. For many people the answer will be, "You shouldn't." This is because everything that warforged do well some other race does nearly as well.

    For others the answer will be, "Because, with warforged you can...." Fill in whatever thing it is that you feel warforged do well.

    In my case it is this: 14 levels of arcane warforged plus 6 levels of any other class = easy win on all heroic level content. With a LR5 + TR it is an easy path to completionist (or to accumulating past lives prior to some final ED build). Because we all seem to like/use easy buttons (and this is one of the easiest) it makes buying warforged a good investment.

    But, each player's perception of the value will vary. The mere fact that we are discussing purchasing warforged indicates that there is enough "demand" for the race to have made the decision to sell it instead of offering it free a sound one on Turbine's part.
    Last edited by Therigar; 11-29-2012 at 08:59 AM.

  5. #25

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    They wanted to have some Store revenue through Races and if you looked at the races we had, WF make some sense.

    Elves, Dwarves, Humans - Way to standard to be PTP
    Halflings - Also very near a standard race a candidate but probbly not prime
    Drow - Were already a premium unlock race so a shoe in for PTP even though they kind of suck.
    WF - Not a fantasy standard race, not a great race for new players due to healing rules, was considered the premium DPS & Arcane race at the time of FTP.

    Now that they are PTP making them FTP would probably **** off all the folks that spent money on them so they just leave them there despite their premium status having waned. When they re-do enhancements they may once again have some jazzy options.

    Half Orcs killed off a lot of the arguments for WF, prior to that they had the best damage options via enhancements. The change to immunities really bit them in the ass of course as they always had that as a convenience. (then again immunity from items was easy to get)
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I find warforged to be an excellent platform for wizard, sorcerer, artificer, monk, barbarian and favored soul. If I remember that not everyone builds to run epic elite or to have the absolutely perfect flavor of the moment then I cannot help but fall back on these as solid, reliable builds that manage to still function well regardless of the changes that occur with DDO over time.

    Barbarian? Surely you jest.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    WF make me feel big and tuff.


    Y U NO HEAL ME????
    There is potential here.... Where's that darn haiku thread?
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    There is potential here.... Where's that darn haiku thread?
    Barbarian me,
    Big and tuff, go kill stuff dead,
    Y U NO HEAL ME?
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  9. #29
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    Barbarian? Surely you jest.
    I never jest and don't call me Shirley!

    Warforged make fine barbarians. Epic destinies have changed this a bit. But, being immune to fatigue along with having a mirror of half-orc (or is it the half-orc that has a mirror of warforged) THF enhancments means warforged are still a decent platform if you are going barbarian.

    Keep in mind that one premise to my comments has to do with running to L20 with an almost immediate TR. On heroic content it scarcely matters what race is chosen and warforged do give benefits ahead of epic content.

    But, even if we push into epic content warforged is still going to perform well enough. The big hit is the lack of healing amp and the reduced effectiveness of cure/heal on warforged. But, this is a problem for mixed groups of toasters and fleshies. If every character is warforged then it isn't an issue any longer.

    Besides, on EE the wizard doesn't really have anything else useful to do other than a bit of CC and rebuffing folks after they're resurrected. They may as well learn how to cast reconstruct. At least then they won't be entirely useless.

  10. #30
    Community Member K_0tiC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I never jest and don't call me Shirley!

    Besides, on EE the wizard doesn't really have anything else useful to do other than a bit of CC and rebuffing folks after they're resurrected. They may as well learn how to cast reconstruct. At least then they won't be entirely useless.
    I think you just confused EE with EC...
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  11. #31
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_0tiC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I never jest and don't call me Shirley!

    Besides, on EE the wizard doesn't really have anything else useful to do other than a bit of CC and rebuffing folks after they're resurrected. They may as well learn how to cast reconstruct. At least then they won't be entirely useless.
    I think you just confused EE with EC...
    I think someone failed their humor check.

  12. #32
    Community Member MrChipinator's Avatar
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    I was on my Warforged Monk when U14 came around, he was perfectly viable and just as fun as fleshy at EE end game. Everyone always gives hate to the WF because they have fewer and fewer reasons to play them (I have ranted once or twice myself), but ultimately I don't see them as being any worse off than others. Halflings have what...+2 dexterity going for them? WF have +2 Con, and (for the time being) immunity to hold monster. Those two alone make me prefer WF over just about every other race.

    Yes, the 50% healing is a pain, but again, I just chugged repair pots on my monk, apologized for the poor healing amp, and if I expected to be healed by others I got my amp up to 100% ASAP.

    It's a p2p class, and if one purchases it and plays it they should be expected to know what they are doing.

    Otherwise, hop in mah backpack, gonna be a long quest.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrChipinator View Post
    I was on my Warforged Monk when U14 came around, he was perfectly viable and just as fun as fleshy at EE end game. Everyone always gives hate to the WF because they have fewer and fewer reasons to play them (I have ranted once or twice myself), but ultimately I don't see them as being any worse off than others. Halflings have what...+2 dexterity going for them? WF have +2 Con, and (for the time being) immunity to hold monster. Those two alone make me prefer WF over just about every other race.

    Yes, the 50% healing is a pain, but again, I just chugged repair pots on my monk, apologized for the poor healing amp, and if I expected to be healed by others I got my amp up to 100% ASAP.

    It's a p2p class, and if one purchases it and plays it they should be expected to know what they are doing.

    Otherwise, hop in mah backpack, gonna be a long quest.
    halflings ? hi am zar i play ddo ... whatcha playing ?
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