I think the guys in OR would complain a lot less if they stopped taking people into their raids.
I think the guys in OR would complain a lot less if they stopped taking people into their raids.
Lay out your expectations and players of like-mind would stay. In this game you have players of different playstyles joining together to play in the manner they feel suits them.
Perhaps the players that "enjoy the journey" and no-fail (everyone overgeared and/or mana pot healing to victory) raids/quests takes the fun out of the game and therefore run on their non-primary destiny to make the game more challenging for everyone involved. Course this introduce the chance of failing a raid (which I personally find to be not fun and a total waste of in-game resouces and time) however, I recognize this may bring enjoyment to players who don't put any stock in hyper efficiency.
examples include: 250 hp at lvl 25, no dr beaters on end-raid fights, no potions/wands/scrolls of any kind, 0 healing amp... etc.
I'd prefer to not be grouped with them but it's just the nature of the game and I just accept it
"drink triple ... see double ... act single! uh oh wife aggro" *hides*
What happened to good ol' fashioned guild runs?
Last edited by porq; 11-26-2012 at 09:44 AM.
Part of the fun of epic destinies is to try to make things work: can my monk tank in Undying Sentinel? How much DPS can I squeeze from fatesinger? Can double rainbow + 10k stars + shuriken do anything useful? etc.
I use the rusted blades method only to lvl extreme "useless" destinies (draconic, magister and angel in a monk). The rest I want to play... it is a game.
I agree raids could be a suitable way of getting great xp without being opposite to fast and smooth completion, but as mentioned it depends on several factors. I sometimes blame myself for being in my capped destiny when i saw all the xp wasted in a raid completed smoothly. Anyways, i see a lot of lfms like "bring your best ed", wich is a way to solve the conflict
Wyrlax of Orien
totaly agreed for epic elite - which as a memeber of Overraided Op is what I assume you run your raids on.
For those of whos weekly raid nights consist of semi drunken fun and not too dificult raids(epic hard or less) it realy doesnt matter.
if your pugging out spots just let the puglings know whats expected, nothing new there.
Also some ones destiny of choice may not be what you expect - eg my cleric's destiny of choice would be unyeliding for epic elites, my wizards would be either magister, draconic or shadowdancer depending on the content, its not all clear cut as destiny does not equal class.
Ex Euro player from devourer: Charaters on orien(Officer of Under Estimated & Nightfox): Wrothgar, Cobolt, Shadeweaver, TheMetal, Metaphysical, Allfred, Razortusk and many more.
stuff by me: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...02#post4938302
First not all raids require ones primary destiny. Three things should be considered though:
1. Is the Destiny you are in a hindrance (or makes you a burden) to your party?
2. Are you comfortable that the abilities you are currently getting from your current destiny are useful to the Raid?
3. Is there an ability in your primary destiny that is seen as needed to help ease the completion, that without it would require undue stress (thus causing a burden on others)
Generally I agree on Epic Elite your Primary Destiny is a safe bet. However, some builds can actually have more than 1 primary destiny which correlates not with the class but with the roll they are attempting to fill in the group.
Example: A Fighter build might switch between US (tank mode) and LD (dps mode) or even FotW (dps mode) depending on the roll they are expected to fill.
I only agree that the destiny you are in should not be a burden to your party and should be useful in helping get a completion. I disagree that all raids require the Very Best you can do, if they did then running inebriated from raid to raid wouldn't be around.
Why do I have to pick a main destiny?
"And you ate an apple, and I ate a pear,
From a dozen of each we had bought somewhere;
And the sky went wan, and the wind came cold,
And the sun rose dripping, a bucketful of gold. " - Millay
just my two cents... i may show up for a raid not in my "main destiny". why? because on Pointless, i consider my main destiny (the one i want to go back to and spend time in once i have other stuff i want) to be Fatesinger. i may at some point change my mind, but right now, that's the one i think i'll be going back to. however... i want to level up dreadnaught and fury first. so right now, i'm gonna show up to your raid in fury with improved power attack twisted. will i do more damage than if i were in Fatesinger *right now*? most likely.
Cat herding is most of the time in a PUG raid, and it's no quicker to tell a LD or Fury Barb which side of the lightning corridor to go down in EH VON5 than it is to tell a Magister Barb.
Increased DPS has so little impact on completion times that it is not remotely relevant. Even in VON6 (a raid with little movement and more time spent fighting), doubling a person's individual DPS (an extreme case) might make Velah live 230 seconds instead of 240, and you can save a good deal more time than that by skipping overbuffing. Starting EH VON6 'Haste, Mass Prot Elements, go, FoM on the run only to Ice base, people with long loadscreens catch up when you can' is the real way to save time, not more DPS.
Time can also be saved by having people you know you can trust assigned to key jobs and then just telling people 'OK, everyone else assist X with purple titan until told otherwise'.
I don't have a zerging problem.
I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.
The fastest, smoothest EH CitW I have done was with almost everyone in levelling destinies.
I fear that doing EE Von6 or Chrono in "proper" destinies would be too easy actually. Remember that EH is nerfed compared to old standard Epic, and we never had Destinies.
If I change to FotW on my fighter for a raid, it is for the extra hp mainly, DPS is never an issue unless you pug the majority of the raid IMO.
Whew, well there you have it Orien, most of us puggers are now 'special' because (as usual) a level 100 guild says as much. What I don't get is how much you guys moan about pugs like you're royalty but pug away anyway. Is it that you can start 'PSA' threads like this? Life really that bad?
Less of telling 'special' people what to do in a GAME that is for everyone to play as they see fit and more stick with your own kind perhaps.
The way you handled those raids the other night is just crazy. between the drunk and that dude making all those very rude comments about women You handled it extremely well.
massivheals / massivsponge - Orien server
Member of Blood bath and Beyond
I used to half wish I was on Orien so that I could experience your high level raiding guild.
Now I am not sure about that. I wouldn't expect any rational decent human beings on your server to join any of your pugs after this thread...what did you even hope to gain from it that could not be accomplished via LFM text or just telling people how you want the raid to be run?
Apart from alienating people that read the forums and might pug with you, that is...
I object the general perception of Orien pugs completely.
When do people learn to use human's biggest achievement and communicate their expectations? And, people without proper gear have been there all the time. I don't know how much the OP was pugging but the difference between him and pugs nowadays seems to be: they don't give a **** about how many rounds in Shroud. The attitude has been changed by the close difficulties casual to hard. Only elite is seen as challenging.
The picture painted here is wrong. You can ask for something but demanding will probably give you resistance. As it is confirmed by many answers in this thread.
Communication is done ingame. This thread will only give forumites some business. The audience, which should be reading it, might not be around anyway.
Last edited by zwiebelring; 11-27-2012 at 04:37 AM.
Characters on Orien:
Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus
OP's just saying that players should at least make the pretense of trying. While many builds have multiple "optimal" destinies, particularly depending on the situation, bringing a truly "off" destiny shows that one does not care. It means one will get some epic xp at the expense of everyone's time.
Sure you can be in an "on" destiny and still be a liability to the group, particularly if you don't listen. But being in an "on" destiny for a raid means you care enough to want to contribute as much as you can.
This is EXACTLY like all those 1000s of old posts about DR-breakers. Having DR-breakers showed one cared enough to want to contribute, and it typically reflected knowledge or a desire to learn and explore more of the endgame. Not having DR-breakers showed one did not know a basic basic aspect of the game or didn't really care about anyone else's time, just wanted a completion. I remember there were many irate (sometime EXTREMELY UPSET) melees who'd be rejected from shroud because they did not have DR-breakers; their argument was "I WILL NOT GET DR-BREAKERS UNTIL I'M CARRIED THROUGH ~20 SHROUDS SO I CAN MAKE MY MIN2!" Sure buddy. In a world where only you matter. In a world where only your time and your goals matter.
Anyone else experiencing dĂ©jĂ* vu? It's the same argument. The same over-reactions.
I pug the least out of my guildies, so I defer to their judgment. But when I do PuG, I appreciate when players want to contribute and want to learn. I appreciate when players will follow a strategy even when one isn't completely necessary because of how easy some of the new epic levels have become. In my opinion an elegant, efficient completion is better than a sloppy, luck-dependent one. And executing strategies is how one learns specific content and how one learns the value of listening, coordination, and teamwork. This allows for playing more of the game: shortmanned, higher difficulties, and new content.
Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)
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