# Thread: Hey Math people - Sense Weakness vs. Symetric Strikes

1. ## Hey Math people - Sense Weakness vs. Symetric Strikes

I'm looking to start an argument regarding tier four ED abilities Symetric Strikes (+5% Primal bonus to physical damage, while in animal form, unarmed, or two-weapon fighting) from Primal Avatar and Sense Weakness (You deal 30% extra damage to helpless targets. Your melee attacks deal 1d8 extra untyped damage to enemies below 75% HP, 1d12 extra damage to enemies below 50% HP, and 1d20 extra damage to enemies below 25% HP) from Fury of the Wild.

However, my math skills have been deadened by the ravages of time and hard living.

Assume a Rgr12/Rog7/Ftr1, with Tempest II, IC Pierce, Overwhelming Critical, ~46 STR and dual wielding 2[W] rapiers.

I understand there are a lot more variables, but I'm just trying to find out if one is very much better than the other. I'm mostly soloing, so the "helpless" bonus is pretty much moot.

Anyone up for it?

2. These are the limits for Sense Weakness on a solo ranger:

1d8 75% of the time = 4.5*0.75 = 3.38 per swing
1d12 50% of the time = 6.5*0.5 = 3.25 per swing
1d20 25% of the time = 10.5*0.25 = 2.62 per swing

Totals 9.25 per hand, on average, against high HP mobs.

This approximation only works if Sense Weakness is a small part of your overall DPS. If +1d8+1d12 is a third of your total damage, the mobs will spend a lot less than 50% of the time taking that much. Don't overestimate

If your average damage is 180 or more the 5% from primal avatar is better. Otherwise, stick to Sense Weakness.

Reign, from Fatesinger, deals an average of 230 damage on each vorpal strike - about 11.5 per hit. If you really never face helpless mobs, keep it in mind

3. Originally Posted by Kmnh
If your average damage is 180 or more the 5% from primal avatar is better. Otherwise, stick to Sense Weakness.

Reign, from Fatesinger, deals an average of 230 damage on each vorpal strike - about 11.5 per hit. If you really never face helpless mobs, keep it in mind
My quick and dirty math lead to the same conclusion. As for Reign, doesn't that require songs to activate?

4. Originally Posted by RabidApathy
My quick and dirty math lead to the same conclusion. As for Reign, doesn't that require songs to activate?
It does, but there are fatesinger abilities that add songs.

5. Hrm... lots to think about. Seems like Symmetric would be good while I'm in Dreadnaught, but I may be overselling my damage output... big crits, quite often, seems like it might average out that high, but I'm not sure.

Now, does anyone know if Symmetric applies to sneak attack damage? Or other weapon procs, for that matter?

Reign is out for me, since I prefer to use my lower-level twists for defensive abilities.

I'm not all about min-maxing, or anything (if I was, I sure wouldn't have the character in question!), just wondering if there was huge difference between them.

Thanks for the input!

6. Originally Posted by CheeseMilk
Now, does anyone know if Symmetric applies to sneak attack damage? Or other weapon procs, for that matter?
Weapon procs - doubtful
Sneak Attack - probable

Sneak attack damage is multiplied by Damage Boost and Helplessness (though in the latter case, the bonus SA is added into the main number), and while I haven't tested it I imagine Symmetric Strikes will too.

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