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  1. #1
    Community Member darkrune's Avatar
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    Default Time for X to 1 trade in for seals and shards for all epics.

    I know some people might scream but hear me out.

    I really think it is time for a mechanic like desert scrolls to be installed for all pre-MOTU epics shards, scrolls, and seals (or make them tradeable) Most of the epics are now only partially as good as random generated loot drops and in most cases obsolete at best.

    For those that scream "but everyone will have ERoSS, ESoS, etc etc" who cares, make the turn in rate for those like 10-15:1 fine but give us some reasonable way to acheive the gear we want without running 50000 runs of x quest til I vomit.

    My guildmate is after a midnight greetings seal. We have ran at least 6 runs a week with 2-4 toons per run for the last 3 months plus and have yet to see one drop.

    It would be nice if we could trade three other seals to get him the one he needs.

    This isn't meant to be a "I wants my Lootz easy and now" post but rather a give me something to do with the 2 huge bags of materials that are wasting inventory space.

    Am I the only one that feels this way?
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  2. #2
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    if there isnt going to be any upgrades to old epic loot, than we need something like the 3 scroll trade in for the older epics. i dont care if its seals, shards or scrolls, but a lot of that epic loot is not very good compared to what you can get in MOTU, especially since MOTU loot is easier to get. make certain things rare that is still viable in epics, but eveything else could have the drop rate increased.

  3. #3
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    /signed.

    While I already have all the epic loot I want on all my toons from pre-motu and had to get it all the old-fashioned grind to you puke way, I see no reason why it can not be made easier to get. Most of the epic gear is pretty useless anyway. Save for the esos and eross, which is not really that useful in my opinion because I hardly ever run out of sp while questing. A bauble is more than enough to have in such situations that I do run out. The whole chrono set, which was the best set-up for most classes, is becoming obsolete.

    I see no reason why people should still have to grind and grind for mediocre loot. I was never a fan of that grind to begin with when I had to do it. I never understood why people that had to grind and get a lucky pull or a guildie past them what they needed get upset about this whole topic and feel that people should be forced to grind for it like they had to. I wish that on no one. It sucks and makes the game less enjoyable.

    So in short, I agree with the whole trade-in concept and feel like it is long overdue.

  4. #4
    Community Member lazlow's Avatar
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    Default indifferent

    I wouldnt mind your suggestion. I would be happy with a simple ( i assume it would be simple to implement) increased drop rate of shards/seals/scrolls or a list of x amount to choose from per x completions and repairing quests that are known not to drop what they are supposed to. At least let us see the carrot.

    Bring back the fun...

    laz

  5. #5
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    In the Lam thread there was one such sugestion met with mix feelings, the general consensus was that there is a need for a fail safe to farming epic mats. Something similar to the 20th list, x to 1 exchange or something new.

    I'm at 250+ runs of the whole LoD chain (ransack on 4 toons a week), finally got my epic Flameward for my sorc and Epic Double Crossbow for my arty last week and yesterday respectively.

    And I'm still missing a handfull of epic mats...
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  6. #6
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    /signed.

    A 10:1 trade would seem reasonable so as not to make it overly easy yet give an alternate way to get a particular part.

  7. #7
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    /signed

    Post-u14, with most of the gear I've wanted for so long being redundant or outright outclassed (that epic staff of arcane power I wanted for an extra +2 spell pen....not even worth grinding out the base item...similar story for most other items), I can see a reason to make old epics easier to get. Any of the best epic items still are difficult to acquire (eSoS, people struggle to pull the base item, for example...epic torc, hope you don't mind doing 40+ DQ2s)...and perhaps making some of these items easy to get will make replacements for those items more available (like something other than torc to dominate the neck slot on casters, something other than eSoS as the best THF weapon, and other general improvements), though that may be a bit too optimistic.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    In the Lam thread there was one such sugestion met with mix feelings, the general consensus was that there is a need for a fail safe to farming epic mats. Something similar to the 20th list, x to 1 exchange or something new.

    I'm at 250+ runs of the whole LoD chain (ransack on 4 toons a week), finally got my epic Flameward for my sorc and Epic Double Crossbow for my arty last week and yesterday respectively.

    And I'm still missing a handfull of epic mats...
    Yeah, I started that Lamania thread, and while I still think x:1 trade ins would be a vast improvement over the current system, it doesn't really matter what the specific system is so much as some kind of grind fail-safe for the numbers getting ridiculous. 20/40/60/etc list would be good also, as would simply unbinding shard and seals.
    Last edited by Dolphious; 11-21-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    /signed to some sort of way to eliminate the extreme grind. Much of the gear isn't endgame anymore (some never was) and is just leveling gear. It should not have endgame grind associated with it. The option is either buff the gear or eliminate some of the grind. Once something rotates from endgame, the grind should be reduced.

    House P, D and K epics could just be guaranteed seals in end chests and guaranteed shards in chain end chests. Or keep the insanely low seal drop rates but allow a trade vendor or just unbind them. There are various ways to reduce the grind. Some better than others. My only issue with the X:1 trade system is that you're never actually looking for a particular seal or shard anymore, just X of anything. Might as well reduce the drop rate and just drop wild card seals and shards in the boxes at that point to eliminate a step. It's similar to 20th raid rewards. You're shooting for 20 and any loot you find in the 19 runs leading up to that is gravy. You've reduced the relative incentive of each individual run while emphasizing the reward on the 20th, making it feel like a grind to 20 rather than a decent shot each step of the way.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 11-21-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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  10. #10
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    /signed

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrune View Post
    ...
    My guildmate is after a midnight greetings seal. We have ran at least 6 runs a week with 2-4 toons per run for the last 3 months plus and have yet to see one drop.
    ...
    And based on this you're not even close to the number of runs I have done for this seal. And I've got more runs than that attempting to get the shard. However, just like you guys, I have yet to even see it drop.

    This is far from the first time someone has mentioned this problem, but it is worth repeating:

    ***There is something WRONG with the drop rate on the Midnight Greeting epic components.***

    I would really love to see a dev give some feedback here. Both in regards to the OP's idea and in regards to the problem with the drop rates on some epic parts.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sqrlmonger View Post
    /signed



    And based on this you're not even close to the number of runs I have done for this seal. And I've got more runs than that attempting to get the shard. However, just like you guys, I have yet to even see it drop.

    This is far from the first time someone has mentioned this problem, but it is worth repeating:

    ***There is something WRONG with the drop rate on the Midnight Greeting epic components.***

    I would really love to see a dev give some feedback here. Both in regards to the OP's idea and in regards to the problem with the drop rates on some epic parts.
    I pulled 2 or 3 of those when soloing and looking for the docent's seal/shard. I also have no rogues. Go figure.
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  12. #12
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    I'd actually like to see the shards/seals sellable/tradable, so I can help guildies and freinds out when they're not around or just help myself if i need plat for something else. The more people who get loot is a good thing. But it'll never happen.
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  13. #13
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I'd actually like to see the shards/seals sellable/tradable, so I can help guildies and freinds out when they're not around or just help myself if i need plat for something else. The more people who get loot is a good thing. But it'll never happen.
    Never happen again, you mean. :P Seriously, though, with the current end-game...I don't see making seals and shards tradable as bad at all. SOMETHING should be done to lessen the grind for non-top-tier-loot.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Handpicked's Avatar
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    /notsigned

    I think the danger with stuff like this is that we are not focusing on the core problem, and can instead get into the habit of applying bandaids to huge gaping wounds... which over time is going to be worst than actully seeing the problem so that you are reminded it needs fixing.

    The problem is that in loot balance either poor design or intentional money grabbing both lead to power creep whichis an unsustainable long term problem.

    Whereas good design adds affects variable to those existing like adding acid where there used to be only fire and ice for example, bad design/money grabbing makes new content drop fire+5 items where old content only drops fire+4.
    Good design integrates new content with old (adding runearms to previous quests) while bad design/money grabbing alienates and invalidates older content (MotU loot vs everything else basically).

    In the long term it takes the game from "What do I want to do today?" and makes it "I better do this because its the only way to keep up". Eventually, when you either can not keep up or no longer find doing so enjoyable (I have to run that quest I don't like because it drops an item that is universably better than everything else is) it causes players to find better non-mmo things to do.

    This is why I like people like OP complaining on forum about things. It draws attention to them. But making the items easier to get is not the fix. They need to be difficult to get as they are now, only they need to be WORTH getting. That is what should be addressed.

  15. #15
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handpicked View Post
    /notsigned

    I think the danger with stuff like this is that we are not focusing on the core problem, and can instead get into the habit of applying bandaids to huge gaping wounds... which over time is going to be worst than actully seeing the problem so that you are reminded it needs fixing.

    The problem is that in loot balance either poor design or intentional money grabbing both lead to power creep whichis an unsustainable long term problem.

    Whereas good design adds affects variable to those existing like adding acid where there used to be only fire and ice for example, bad design/money grabbing makes new content drop fire+5 items where old content only drops fire+4.
    Good design integrates new content with old (adding runearms to previous quests) while bad design/money grabbing alienates and invalidates older content (MotU loot vs everything else basically).

    In the long term it takes the game from "What do I want to do today?" and makes it "I better do this because its the only way to keep up". Eventually, when you either can not keep up or no longer find doing so enjoyable (I have to run that quest I don't like because it drops an item that is universably better than everything else is) it causes players to find better non-mmo things to do.

    This is why I like people like OP complaining on forum about things. It draws attention to them. But making the items easier to get is not the fix. They need to be difficult to get as they are now, only they need to be WORTH getting. That is what should be addressed.
    Hummm I wouldn't mind making all the gear that took months to get better, but at the same time I have many guildies and friends who have no time to spend grinding these items the way I do. They can either lvl and have fun or grind with no guarantee to ever get what they want.

    Personally save Thornlord (which I would get only for the sake of getting it) I have farm nearly all the epic gear I feel I need 9other stuff is Chrono, which is simple to get compared to LoD chain). But I have spent huge amounts of time to that endeavor and had some exceptional luck, it's the luck part that needs to be addressed.

    Lets put it this way I can make at the moment 6 Epic Templar's Justice, I have one Dwarf and he's sword and board, that's 5 shards and seals that could have been Bow of the Silver flmae and Silver Slinger which I actually need.
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  16. #16
    Community Member KingOfCheese's Avatar
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    Generally agree. One hitch might be the epic spell storing ring. With this change, I'll have one on every one of my blue-bar characters (I have untold numbers of junk desert seals and shards).

    That's a lot of extra spell points in game. And a non-trivial number of store spell point pots not purchased by the community.
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  17. #17
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfCheese View Post
    Generally agree. One hitch might be the epic spell storing ring. With this change, I'll have one on every one of my blue-bar characters (I have untold numbers of junk desert seals and shards).

    That's a lot of extra spell points in game. And a non-trivial number of store spell point pots not purchased by the community.
    That's no really a problem, seen how the base item is pretty rare to begin with, the fact you have one for every toon is not really the norm.

    It would be a huge boost for you and people in your situation, Average Joe? He might actually get an epic item or 2 now.
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  18. #18
    Community Member Niv-mizzet's Avatar
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    major /sign on this. Old epics generally aren't worth the grind to make anymore. (a lot of them weren't before, but thats another matter.) So rather than just letting them die out, a trade-in mechanic to make them more accessible is a really good idea.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    You know I am down with this. They need something in place at this point, don't really care what it is as long as it lessens the grind some.

  20. #20
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    Thumbs down

    /not signed x 1000

    Ok the situation is Old epics aren't worth running, so let's make them completely not worth our time by allowing us to turn in our junk for the best. Ridiculous argument. Tradeable makes a lot more sense, at least that rare shard is still rare. It doesn't make sense that an NPC trader would idlely watch you quest and collect junk then grab one of his many SoSS shards in ingredients bag. The Trader might as well hand them out for when you buy him a Dirty Kobold in a tavern.

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