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  1. #141
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post

    Nothing is forced on anyone - guild decay and guild size bonus didn't change for small guilds.

    They are exactly the same as they were 3 weeks ago.

    They get a renown bonus to make up for being small.

    Where's anyone being forced?
    Relative values.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  2. #142
    Community Member jhadden30's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=eris2323;4779096]
    Quote Originally Posted by jhadden30 View Post
    I'll post what I want, when I want - you have no power to make me stop, so stop trying to be a bully and telling me to stop posting, as I am taking offence to your rudeness.
    And another thing, It's perfectly fine for you to jump all over everybody else when they post something. I would consider that bullying as well.

  3. #143
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    [QUOTE=jhadden30;4779122]
    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post

    And another thing, It's perfectly fine for you to jump all over everybody else when they post something. I would consider that bullying as well.
    I have no interest in continuing a thread where I am threatened.

    Good luck to you all, enjoy the new system!

  4. #144
    Community Member jhadden30's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=eris2323;4779124]
    Quote Originally Posted by jhadden30 View Post
    I have no interest in continuing a thread where I am threatened.

    Good luck to you all, enjoy the new system!
    Just as I suspected, can't even answer me a simple question.
    Last edited by jhadden30; 11-23-2012 at 09:39 AM.

  5. #145
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    deleted my post.

    I'll let the mods handle this.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Yeah. For what, did I do now?

    This is childish
    I tried to reach out to you by suggesting that maybe decay should be dropped. The only input you offered was to imply that my small guild does not chat, group together, or plan events and your large guile keeps Turbines customers coming back. Now that is childish.
    Last edited by Tictman; 11-21-2012 at 03:29 PM.

  7. #147
    Community Member berlinetta84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Yes - I do feel its okay - we have 10-12 players online at any time of day - and WAY more in the evenings and weekends - we engage our players, we plan raids; we group up. We chat. We have more people online at any given second of the day than some of these 'tiny' guilds will EVER have online in their entire life of their guild. We deserve to be rewarded for this.

    I feel its FINALLY time a large guild that helps to keep this game running, helps to keep those customers coming back.... gets what it deserves.

    All you have to do, is make friends, invite a few, and suddenly, you are no longer being 'persecuted'. I feel that if you do this, you will also help to improve the game, and then you should also receive the same benefits.

    You asked. Go recruit; make some friends!
    I have to agree with this assessment. The way the system is designed seems very fair to me. And this is coming from somebody whose guild is listed as size 21 but only has 2 to 3 chars that actually play at all at this point.

    The system does not benefit large guilds, it benefits large guilds that work for it. There is a big difference there. Lets go back to the original math from the OP for a moment.

    The 300% bonus, lvl 70 guild, daily decay of 10805.
    6 man - 10805/6/4 = 405 base renown per player per day to beat decay after the 300% bonus is factored out
    150 man - 10805/150 = 72 per player per day

    But say the large guild only has 6 people playing daily?
    6 man - 10805/6/4 = 405
    150 man (6 active) - 10805/6 = 1801

    It's not that the benefit is in how large the guild is, but it is in how many active players are working at it.

    Look at it this way, let's push 2 buses up a hill.
    6 people to push bus A
    150 people to push bus B

    if all 150 pushing bus B put in the same amount of effort, it will be easier for each of them than it will for the 6 people pushing bus A. If 144 of them are just walking along with their hands on the bus but not actually pushing the effort would be the same. However, under the system we have here, the 6 people pushing bus A have a winch attached to their bus giving them a 300% assist to their efforts.

    Yes, the 6 people in guild A may put in the same amount of effort as the active players in guild B, but if guild B has more active players each looting the same number of chests per day as players in guild A, then they should be expected to raise faster. Membership has it's privileges.

    If you have something you want to get done, pushing a bus, moving, etc, in general terms, the more people you have to help, the easier the burden on each of them. That's just how life/games/most everything works.

  8. #148
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    Now I can agree the more people that work the more they get. I do not suggest that 6 people should get the same reward for the same work done by more. My suggestion is to drop decay altogether. This way large guilds can have their cake and eat it too, and my small guild of family and friends would not lose what we worked for. I tried to suggest this to whom you have quoted, but I guess you see where that went.

  9. #149
    Community Member jhadden30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Yes - I do feel its okay - we have 10-12 players online at any time of day - and WAY more in the evenings and weekends - we engage our players, we plan raids; we group up. We chat. We have more people online at any given second of the day than some of these 'tiny' guilds will EVER have online in their entire life of their guild. We deserve to be rewarded for this.
    It's amazing how anybody can tolerate this type of behavior.

  10. #150
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    Ah, I see.

    That's the shame about the system, it encourages cutting 'the slackers'. That is why I would be much more in favor of a system that only considers the number of people that logged in that day when calculating decay, and perhaps guild size bonus as well.
    And apply Guild bonus to all Guilds as well. That way ALL Guilds will benefit, even medium and large. Start the day with only 6 online, guild gets the very small bonus. As more come online, they move up to small, then medium, then to no bonus as the number of online accounts increase.

    Even large Guilds will see the very small and small bonus part of the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #151
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    This is good to know - I am going to cross my fingers, and hope that 'further changes aren't yet imminent' means for now, we'll be keeping this system while you monitor it.

    I wish you guys weren't so unclear sometimes; we'd really like to know if we can get some new blood into our guild; we're looking to invite some new players, get some new faces in, and have some fun!

    But we're scared you're going to revert and then we'll be worse off than before

    Based on this statement though, I'm going to suggest to my guild that it might be time to open the doors, and assign us some recruiters to find 'our type of player' and give them a home.....
    My god man, you should NEVER let renown/decay stop you from getting new people, friends into your guild!!!!!

    Your Guild Level is a byproduct of your members, not the reason for them!

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  12. #152
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    ummmm....NO just cause someone only has 5 or 6 people in their guild is no reason to restrict them. I have 2 Guilds one is fairly large which is CLAW on Thelanis the other is my friends and family guild with around 15 accounts give or take...why do you think my F&F guild should be penalized?

    The best way would be to make multiple safety nets like Lvl 25 so like 25,30,40,50,60.70,80 and maybe 90...not 100 though decay works as normal but you cant go from 100 all the way to 25 because your guild decided to stop playing for a little bit...which with smaller guilds is quite easy to happen or even bigger guilds that decide to try out another MMO together.

    Honestly most of the people I know only play MMOs because their friends do so IMO small guild or large both are just as important and its not you place to say otherwise

    I made the suggestion as counter point to numerous posts that small guilds are penalized under the new system.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    My god man, you should NEVER let renown/decay stop you from getting new people, friends into your guild!!!!!

    Your Guild Level is a byproduct of your members, not the reason for them!
    We never did; however, we did have to be picky, and ensure that our players were playing for a while before allowing them in....

    Usually not for long - however there was always a waiting period, to try to stop us from taking on too many that stay for a week and are gone.... which ended up costing us LARGE amounts of renown, and stopped our guild from levelling many moons ago. We have many casual members, and we have members that haven't played for literally years, still on our roster.

    It was demoralizing, and it was a horrible system.

    Now, the people that enjoy it, can pug up with newbies, and if they fit in nicely, we can invite them in much quicker, without fear of being penalized for adding some new casual players.

    It's a great new system. I love it. We have members that love making new friends, and always keep an eye out for new members as it is... now we can do so without fear.

    Interesting idea on scaling the guild renown by size bonus by that day; but we'd never see a nice bonus from it; there's few points in the day where we have that few players online as to get a small guild bonus. Usually we're up to at least 6 again within seconds of the game servers brought back online after the reboots.

    Some of us will just sit in our teamspeak server and wait for it, then announce it, so we all know when the servers back

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    All ya'll in tiny guilds complaining about being wronged by this new system renown wise do realize one Key Point right?

    MATHEMATICALLY THE RENOWN AMOUNTS/BONUSES/DECAY FOR ANY GUILD UNDER 10 PEOPLE HAVE NOT CHANGED. THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME AS IN JULY 2012.

    I cappsed that just so in hopes you understand it. If you were not up in arms in July, WHY ARE YOU UP IN ARMS NOW?
    Because in July, it was like every guild paid a 10% tax. Under the new system its like small guilds are still paying the same tax and large guilds only have to pay a .01% tax.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    Why should a social game, that is already ridiculously solo-friendly, encourage even more options that make people segregate from each other? Small guilds can still level well now, just as well as they did before: slowly but surely. Asking for more seems to me as asking to tip the balance between small and large guilds back to very small guilds and, again, it doesn't seem right to me given the social aspects of the game.
    The system was never tipped in favor of small guilds, it was tipped in favor of active guilds.

    Now its just blatantly and undeniably tipped in favor of large guilds.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're happier with the changes currently in compared to before. The system running today isn't expected to be final. Further changes aren't yet imminent.
    Great news! Thanks and big time kudos to the devs for listening on this issue. I am the leader of a very large guild and this will help my guild out significantly. But I am also hopeful that some relief from decay can be extended to the tiny guilds with less than 10 players who were not helped by the change you have made so far.

    Thanks!

  17. #157
    Community Member jhadden30's Avatar
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    Just for good measure, here's my idea that i posted on another thread, some of you may or may not have seen it:

    Here's a solution: why not just dissolve guild levels and sizes and just let everyone pay for ships and buffs with turbine points or platinum or even favor for the matter? That would stop making it a gigantic competition and bragging rights showdown. This way we could all get back to playing and having fun which is what we're supposed to be doing in the first place. Guilds would still exist of course, but just eliminate all the hassle. A guild is supposed to be almost the same thing as a social network, nobody has this much hassle logging on to their facebook. Just something to consider.

    Now, some will argue that since guilds have worked so hard to gain levels and maintain those levels that it would be an outrage to take that away from them. Saying that, I must point out that alot of those same people on here are claiming that levels, recruiting people or who they group with or anything else similar does not matter to them, until a solution like this comes along. Then it's whole different story.
    Last edited by jhadden30; 11-21-2012 at 05:24 PM.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    Now its just blatantly and undeniably tipped in favor of large guilds.
    It is tipped in favor of guilds that earn the most renown each day. It is true that most of those are likely to be larger guilds because larger guilds can put more man-hours to the task of gathering renown than smaller guilds can. But if a guild is very effecient and very hardworking, they might well be able to out-earn a significantly larger guild that is more casual about earning renown. If your guild earns more renown, it will level faster. If it earns less it will level slower. The small guild bonuses are still in place as well.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by theslimshady View Post
    and thats a good tweek
    but by suggestion to remove the new system because it dosent do that right now is what the large guilds issue is
    just rolling back the changes cause it dosent do that now has been the loudest outcry by the small guilds across this debate and why should we think that was a good idea ever
    sorry 200 fellow friends, guildies,family members . and cas accounts in my guild the small guilds of 1 -24 are not getting a bigger boost to renown right now {no they are not decaying backwards} so we have to rollback to the great decay wall and renown level bleed sorry so please dont enjoy mabar because we will lose levels
    now dosent that just sound silly for any large guild leader to say
    Turbine made a mistake by making it ridiculously easy only for select guilds to waltz up to 100, and I'm not suggesting turbine stick it to big guilds. I'm suggesting that we should have a reasonable decay system so that guilds that want to get to level 100 and stay there actually have to put consistent effort into it, not just mass recruit. We need a renown/decay system that is fair, not one that is negligible for guild A and buttrape for guild B, which is what the current system is.

    It has nothing to do with small guilds not getting a bigger boost right now, and it has everything to do with the massive skew between the effort members of a small guild have to put forth to level and maintain it as compared to the effort members of a large guild have to. I don't want a ridiculous easy button for being in a small guild, and never had one despite how you keep trying to compare all small guilds to a very select few small guilds full of active power gamers that hit 100.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tictman View Post
    No not even close. I choose to be in a small guild of family and friends non of which are so called power gamers. We enjoy playing but shouldn't have to be forced into a large guild. We gain around a level a month and are not concerned with reaching level 100. We would like to reach level 55 though. A level 55 ship would be nice to have. Unfortunately being level 46 at the moment at this rate it will take us 9 or 10 months. If it does it does. Please stop badgering small guilds until they become non existent.

    Isn't that your goal keep making it harder and harder on the small guild until they give up and finally join your large guild so you can reap the benefits of their labor? Sure sounds like it to me.
    I hope theslimshady reads this post you made here. He doesn't realize small guilds with the same ratio of active/casual players as a large guild were already behind the curve in terms of what levels they are. All he wants to do is compare large casual guilds to smaller guilds of hardcore gamers, which is a very poor comparison.

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