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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    How did that work out for them? Because there is no way a small or very small guild is going to have the guild levels that a large one can get to, unless the large guild is filled with slackers. In which case, they left an inactive guild to join an active guild.
    Most large guilds are predominantly made up of "slackers" as they don't tend to take the game seriously enough to care about the minor details the leadership cabal decides on. If there's 2 shrouds and 1 VoN a week, they'll join them if they happen to be on, not quit if it's not 2 VoNs and 1 shroud. Large active guilds are as unlikely to be successful as most small casual guilds, the first because the leaders are making to many "wrong" important decisions and the second because there aren't enough of them that happen to be on at the same time to 2 man stuff most times, much less form a full group (an exception here for those who play on a set schedule).

  2. #102
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    The op makes some good points, but should not have mentioned a possible solution.
    Basically the renown needed to level is not the issue.
    It is the decay rate that obliverates most smaller guilds (and espeially tiny) chances of reaching guild level 70 (or even 60 for many of them) within a few years.
    I suspect most smaller guilds are casual, especially as most of the semi-casual and power gamers leave to go to another more focused guild.
    Despite attempts to recruit, I've had little success having people stay on for long. I'm sadly now considering korthos army carpetbomb approach in the hopes that I can get enough guild levels to improve retention and to minimize the crushing decay rate by account.

  3. #103
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    The op makes some good points, but should not have mentioned a possible solution.
    Basically the renown needed to level is not the issue.
    It is the decay ra.te
    . that obliverates most smaller guilds (and espeially tiny) chances of reaching guild level 70 (or even 60 for many of them) within a few years.
    I suspect most smaller guilds are casual, especially as most of the semi-casual and power gamers leave to go to another more focused guild.
    Despite attempts to recruit, I've had little success having people stay on for long. I'm sadly now considering korthos army carpetbomb approach in the hopes that I can get enough guild levels to improve retention and to minimize the crushing decay rate by account.

  4. #104
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    Default So this is why I'm in a small guild?

    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post

    To me, it seems all those power gamers who left the large stagnating guilds are now just whining up a storm, because they CHOSE to leave large guilds in favor of a small guilds advantages... because they wanted guild levels.
    No not even close. I choose to be in a small guild of family and friends non of which are so called power gamers. We enjoy playing but shouldn't have to be forced into a large guild. We gain around a level a month and are not concerned with reaching level 100. We would like to reach level 55 though. A level 55 ship would be nice to have. Unfortunately being level 46 at the moment at this rate it will take us 9 or 10 months. If it does it does. Please stop badgering small guilds until they become non existent.

    Isn't that your goal keep making it harder and harder on the small guild until they give up and finally join your large guild so you can reap the benefits of their labor? Sure sounds like it to me.
    Last edited by Tictman; 11-21-2012 at 02:32 PM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tictman View Post
    No not even close. I choose to be in a small guild of family and friends non of which are so called power gamers. We enjoy playing but shouldn't have to be forced into a large guild. We gain around a level a month and are not concerned with reaching level 100. We would like to reach level 55 though. A level 55 ship would be nice to have. Unfortunately being level 46 at the moment at this rate it will take us 9 or 10 months. If it does it does. Please stop badgering small guilds until they become non existent.
    If it doesn't apply to you, why are you taking offence? I am not badgering any small guilds, I simply feel that the bonuses they currently get MORE than compensate for them being small, and giving them even more preferential treatment will lead more to just form guilds of 1, and this game will just be... stupid.

    That doesn't sound stupid to you? A game with 134234523424234214 guilds of 1?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zargarx View Post
    The op makes some good points, but should not have mentioned a possible solution.
    Basically the renown needed to level is not the issue.
    It is the decay rate that obliverates most smaller guilds (and espeially tiny) chances of reaching guild level 70 (or even 60 for many of them) within a few years.
    I suspect most smaller guilds are casual, especially as most of the semi-casual and power gamers leave to go to another more focused guild.
    Despite attempts to recruit, I've had little success having people stay on for long. I'm sadly now considering korthos army carpetbomb approach in the hopes that I can get enough guild levels to improve retention and to minimize the crushing decay rate by account.
    This is true in a way for our guild, we have 11 accounts and about 5 of us most nights of the week but certainly not all day long. We do invite people, show them the ropes and quest with them, maybe even give them our old weapons and some platinum but then they pick up and go to a higher level guild. Honestly, i'm not sure how to get around that either. This is why we need to eliminate renown decay for everyone.

  7. #107
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    Many interesting points made in this thread so far.

    Personally, I do not believe that a guild, any guild large through tiny should be penalized for working hard. Humans, we be and as such we have lives outside of DDO. Because a small guild of casual players can not play everyday because they are folks with lives should not result in coming back to the game a week later and finding out you lost a level. That should not happen to large guilds either.

    Multiboxing for purpose of leveling a guild should be an infraction of some sort. That simply some two or three people with multiple accounts and nothing to do but play can outearn a large guild that is dealing with power and casual players is a crock in my opinion.

    I do not know what the answer is, I do know that our small guild has been helped by larger guilds, and for that we thank you.

    I do know that this is the second such thread in as many days and the second one to have many idea's in it. So there must be a proper fix in all that someplace.

    I can sure understand how a large guild fights harder then a small guild when it comes to what rules to make and enforce upon its membership. We have very few rules and the worst of which is the three week rule, but it has to be.

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhadden30 View Post
    This is true in a way for our guild, we have 11 accounts and about 5 of us most nights of the week but certainly not all day long. We do invite people, show them the ropes and quest with them, maybe even give them our old weapons and some platinum but then they pick up and go to a higher level guild. Honestly, i'm not sure how to get around that either. This is why we need to eliminate renown decay for everyone.
    Agreed.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    If it doesn't apply to you, why are you taking offence? I am not badgering any small guilds, I simply feel that the bonuses they currently get MORE than compensate for them being small, and giving them even more preferential treatment will lead more to just form guilds of 1, and this game will just be... stupid.

    That doesn't sound stupid to you? A game with 134234523424234214 guilds of 1?
    I'm sure you have seen the math posted on here that clearly states that the guild bonuses do not compensate very well at all for smaller guilds. Besides our decay rate is still the same, your decay rate decreased ten fold. You shouldn't even be on this thread in the first place because of the fact that you are already in a large guild which this change has heavily favored. So why keep carrying on about the subject? And besides, if turbine didn't want different sized guilds than why would they split them up into four different sizes from the get go?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    I don't particularly want to go back to the old system, but I don't think the test version should be final, either.
    We're happier with the changes currently in compared to before. The system running today isn't expected to be final. Further changes aren't yet imminent.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhadden30 View Post
    I'm sure you have seen the math posted on here that clearly states that the guild bonuses do not compensate very well at all for smaller guilds. Besides our decay rate is still the same, your decay rate decreased ten fold. You shouldn't even be on this thread in the first place because of the fact that you are already in a large guild which this change has heavily favored. So why keep carrying on about the subject? And besides, if turbine didn't want different sized guilds than why would they split them up into four different sizes from the get go?
    Just make it you must have 20 Accounts to gain Guild levels over 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're happier with the changes currently in compared to before. The system running today isn't expected to be final. Further changes aren't yet imminent.
    Thank you for posting Varg!

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're happier with the changes currently in compared to before. The system running today isn't expected to be final. Further changes aren't yet imminent.
    Please, please don't take forever to address the concerns of the small guilds. The current unfair testing system is hugely unfair to us.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  14. #114
    Community Member Greyhawk6's Avatar
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    I multibox because I enjoy it.

    Our guild has only just levelled after being 41 for about 6 months.

    My higher level toons almost always die at some point in the quest thus losing any buffs anyway. About the best thing is the chests.

    Guilds in DDO really are a bit pathetic to be honest. That said, taking stuff you've earned away is always a bad idea from a game enjoyment point of view.

    IMO they should concentrate more on making guilds a lot more fun to be in. Perhaps giving rewards of a free appearance armour or perk every 10k a guild member earns. Something a bit more fun than a buff station that costs you loads anyway to rent.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're happier with the changes currently in compared to before. The system running today isn't expected to be final. Further changes aren't yet imminent.
    Thank you Varg.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk6 View Post
    I multibox because I enjoy it.

    Our guild has only just levelled after being 41 for about 6 months.

    My higher level toons almost always die at some point in the quest thus losing any buffs anyway. About the best thing is the chests.

    Guilds in DDO really are a bit pathetic to be honest. That said, taking stuff you've earned away is always a bad idea from a game enjoyment point of view.

    IMO they should concentrate more on making guilds a lot more fun to be in. Perhaps giving rewards of a free appearance armour or perk every 10k a guild member earns. Something a bit more fun than a buff station that costs you loads anyway to rent.
    Now that last part brings up a whole other issue, and I agree, buffs should last longer for their price and something neat for hammering out a legendary victory ten times would be cool.
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  17. #117
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    Default So it's ok for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    I simply feel that the bonuses they currently get MORE than compensate for them being small
    So then it's ok for your large guild to benefit from the new system and not a small 1 like mine? No I'm sure this isn't what you mean, so why don't we just do away with renown decay? Would that not be a better solution? I'd trade the bonuses that you think I don't deserve for not losing renown daily. Even though these bonuses really do not help us as much as you seem to think.

  18. #118
    2016 DDO Players Council eris2323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tictman View Post
    So then it's ok for your large guild to benefit from the new system and not a small 1 like mine? No I'm sure this isn't what you mean, so why don't we just do away with renown decay? Would that not be a better solution? I'd trade the bonuses that you think I don't deserve for not losing renown daily. Even though these bonuses really do not help us as much as you seem to think.
    Yes - I do feel its okay - we have 10-12 players online at any time of day - and WAY more in the evenings and weekends - we engage our players, we plan raids; we group up. We chat. We have more people online at any given second of the day than some of these 'tiny' guilds will EVER have online in their entire life of their guild. We deserve to be rewarded for this.

    I feel its FINALLY time a large guild that helps to keep this game running, helps to keep those customers coming back.... gets what it deserves.

    All you have to do, is make friends, invite a few, and suddenly, you are no longer being 'persecuted'. I feel that if you do this, you will also help to improve the game, and then you should also receive the same benefits.

    You asked. Go recruit; make some friends!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Oh, I don't know how it ended up, not like I track them now....

    seems to me they're all here on the forums complaining about the recent changes to renown, where the whole reason they left was suddenly invalidated.

    just a guess, though.
    Personally I think anyone that is chasing renown is kind of 'doing it wrong' as the rewards are all 'nice to haves' rather than 'need to haves'. The 30 resists are probably among the best of the buffs really, although +2 on stats is really nice also.

    But with our guild currently at only level 32 there is no ship buff that makes any real difference on the questing, and whether I get ship buffs or not depends largely on convenience. I will grab them if I am using the ship for transportation anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    I misunderstood your post, as I hadn't read the post you quoted. The guild cut a large amount of players due to guild levels. Redacted my statement in accordance.
    Ah, I see.

    That's the shame about the system, it encourages cutting 'the slackers'. That is why I would be much more in favor of a system that only considers the number of people that logged in that day when calculating decay, and perhaps guild size bonus as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

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