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  1. #1

    Default Will my wiz ever have a useful UMD score?

    I think it's too late for my current toon, but it sure would be nice to be able to use CSW wands, for example. Alas, I'm level 13 when the possibility occurs to me.

    Can anything be done, or will I need to lesser reincarnate for that? Will that even do any good? It looks like I can only add a point per level, and it seems you need at least a skill of 28 to equip such a device.
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  2. #2
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    You can dump all your level up skill points (probably 10 or so on a Wizard) into one skill.

    However UMD is pretty gear dependant to get high. My Wizard can use raise dead scrolls (UMD DC 36) at 14th level (albeit with a high chance to fail - their skill is a lot under 36) but this is largely because they have an item from the Shroud that gives +5 UMD (among other effects).

    If you invest in UMD, don't expect much until you have the gear to back it up. At level 25 with moderate gear, however, you'll be throwing Heal scrolls (DC 40), Resurrection (44) and Greater Restoration (also 44) if you want to.


    Edit: If you just want self-healing and are not WF, look into the Pale Master prestige enhancement. It will turn your Death Aura spell into a long-lasting self-only heal-over-time effect and your Negative Energy Burst into a one-shot ~150 point selfheal - and both spells will still have their usual effects on enemies too.
    Last edited by sirgog; 11-18-2012 at 06:25 PM.
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    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    If you have splashed a class that allows you to raise umd by a full point each level, you have a shot. Otherwise, i wouldn't count on it on your first life.

  4. #4
    Community Member rsking's Avatar
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    UMD isn't just for scrolls/wands its also use to Bypass Race requirements(on some items some you cant bypass though), Alignment restrictions, and sometimes is even used to interact with monsters, switches, runes, on top of that there are some down sides to UMD also IMO (though the list is extremely short) the main problem with umd is that you may have for example 70% success on a Raise dead scroll and you end up failing the UMD check 80% of time. so UMD is great just don't wast money on scrolls/wands that you can't replace at a moments notice from my experience.
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  5. #5
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    If you're a lvl 13 wizard, you should consider playing as a palemaster, where you can self heal yourself with your death aura more easily than using cure wands.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    A lot of UMD ability comes from having the right equipment to boost your score, even a build with full UMD still needs gear to use all the tasty things.

    As a sample:
    +1 (+2 cha tome)
    +1 (+2 Cha ship buff)
    +3 (+6 cha item)
    +3 (cannith crafted persuasion item)
    +2 (cannith crafted greater good luck item)
    +5 (shroud blindness + SP conc-op item)
    +4 (greater heroism spell)
    +1 (lvl 5 version of the Big Top)

    would give +20 to UMD skill

    and that's not all possible boosts to UMD, there still +1 exceptional skill, +2 more from the seven fingered gloves, +2 more from eBigTop or T3 spyglass, ...

    -------------------

    Of course, you probably don't have all that gear yet, but you should be able to manage:
    +2 (eagles splendor potion / +4 cha item)
    +3 (cannith crafted persuasion item. they can be made unbound, so just find someone to make you one)
    +1 (good luck item, like Voice of the Master, or the luck based house P ship buff)
    +2 (heroism potion)
    +1 (lvl 5 version of the big top)

    -------------------------

    If you mean you haven't taken any ranks in UMD yet, and are wondering if starting to add points to it now is a good idea, yes it probably is. It's not like you had any other great choices to spend skill points on. You'll have enough skill points left before 20 that you should be able to max out UMD by level 20. Though yuo'll also need to start gathering the gear to make the UMD skill really useful.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    One very important caveat.

    If you train UMD at all (even 0.5 ranks), there's a nasty bug with it you need to know about.

    Any time your UMD score changes, you will experience between 0.2-1.5 seconds of lag.

    Normally this isn't an issue (a second of lag after casting Greater Heroism doesn't matter as the spell isn't cast in combat much, ditto for hitting your guild airship Charisma shrine). However sometimes it is really bad - particularly in the raid The Master Artificer, where one of the bosses has a magic-suppressing aura. Entering or leaving that aura with a Greater Heroism, Good Hope or Eagle's Splendour active (or some other spells) will freeze you - often long enough for the boss to move so you exit the aura and freeze again.
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  8. #8
    Community Member LordRavnos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    One very important caveat.

    If you train UMD at all (even 0.5 ranks), there's a nasty bug with it you need to know about.

    Any time your UMD score changes, you will experience between 0.2-1.5 seconds of lag.

    Normally this isn't an issue (a second of lag after casting Greater Heroism doesn't matter as the spell isn't cast in combat much, ditto for hitting your guild airship Charisma shrine). However sometimes it is really bad - particularly in the raid The Master Artificer, where one of the bosses has a magic-suppressing aura. Entering or leaving that aura with a Greater Heroism, Good Hope or Eagle's Splendour active (or some other spells) will freeze you - often long enough for the boss to move so you exit the aura and freeze again.

    I have heard about this but never experienced it myself once. Is it supposed to be a 100% of the time guaranteed bug or just a most people are effect bug? Over 10 characters, all with UMD, none of them experience this.

    To the OP, no its not too late, put all your points next few levels and you will max it out, then get the gear and spells as said and you can get it right up there fast
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  9. #9
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordRavnos View Post
    I have heard about this but never experienced it myself once. Is it supposed to be a 100% of the time guaranteed bug or just a most people are effect bug? Over 10 characters, all with UMD, none of them experience this.
    I believe that the bug depends on the amount of items in your inventory that are UMD dependent.

    Maxing out UMD is always good if you can, but finding other ways to be self sufficient is good if you can't.

    In addition to adding lots of skill points, you can get some epic stuff (+5 for leveling to 25)
    and twist in an ability from fatesinger for +3 (it used to be +6 and then got nerfed because turbine is trigger happy with the nerf bat)
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  10. #10
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    UMD and usefulness is really dependent on what you are trying to achieve.

    Wizards will generally have enough skill points to bring several skills to its max even if a few are the 0.5 per level ranking.

    While leveling your UMD may not be enough for high level spells, but having enough for some even if at 50% can be a significant difference in the performance or even expenditure of your first life Character.

    What you should do is take the time to figure out what UMD score you can achieve by a specific level and look at the spells in other classes where scroll or wand may be of use. Be it Elemental effects on your one-handed weapon or the ability to use cure light or cure moderate wounds to heal yourself up between encounters.

    Keep in mind that even a 50% on a Res Scroll can be enough outside of a fight to keep a party going.

    UMD for non-class skill characters can become gear dependent at higher levels of which you will have time to acquire just like everyone else before you.

  11. #11
    Community Member brickwall's Avatar
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    Depends on build i run a (1 Rogue / 2 Monk / 17 Wizard Build) properly executed it can do it all. The build must be in the listed order rolled as a rogue then 2 levels of monk then 17 of wizard. things the build is able to do are (full trap skills/evasion/DPS/Nuke/Full UMD Healing/Tank when you draw aggro) basically you are the party you can cover most any situation and anyone else present is just gravy.
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  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    You're a lvl 13 wiz, which means you ought to be a Pale Master using wraith form and Death Aura / NEB to stay alive; why are you worrying about Cure wands now?

    Anyway, the good news is you're a pure wiz, so you have plenty of skill pts to spare; you should still be able to max out UMD (11 ranks) and Concentration (23 ranks) by lvl 20. The bad news is (A) you won't hit UMD 11 until lvl 19 or 20 and (B) as mentioned upthread, UMD is highly gear-dependent if you don't have it as a class skill and are playing a build which presumably dump-stated CHA. You could LR +1 to take rog @ lvl 1 so you could max UMD (then rog 2 somewhere for Evasion); but you'd be sacrificing some of your epic spellcasting power to do so (-2 Spell Pen, -1 feat, no wiz capstone).

    I would argue UMD is still a worthwhile long-term investment even as a pure wiz, but it won't pay off for you anytime soon. Heck, even a 50% chance to toss off a Raise Dead scroll on the party healer could still be the difference between a wipe or a completion.

  13. #13
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    It's hard as hell to get a non UMD classed toon to useful levels. After 20 levels, you end up with a score of close to 12, which isn't worth anything useful.

    I tried it on my PM wizzard, and I basically ended up with spent useless points. And if I tried to gear him up to make it useful, I would end up gimping him another area.

    It's easier on high charisma toons such as Sorcerers because of the Charisma bonus.

    Best bet is to just use UMD on a UMD classed toon so you don't suffer penalties, and it ends up being non gear intensive.

    Im sure someone will come along and tell you that Im wrong and that it is really easy when it's not. It might be "easy" for some, but in general terms its pretty hard unless you spend all of you time and lives on one toon. Then it can be "easier".

    Good luck.
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  14. #14
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    I personally don't bother that much with UMD on my wizard, unlike my other characters.

    The main advantage of UMD on a wizard is being able to raise, and being able to jump in and heal the tank if needed. At low levels I just use cure pots over wands anyway. However, if you are fleshie archmage (I am not) then UMD is very nice.

    My current setup is 11 ranks, 5 epic ranks, 3 bunny hat, 4 gh, +1 from 12 CHA, +2 good luck (for the saves), +1 bard spell penetration twist = 27.

    I also have a spyglass (+3) and a +6 cha skills item for 36. I don't bother carrying a CHA item even as a swap and just run with what I've got until I get a free epic slot so I can put +6 CHA in there for 39.

    Note that you don't need no-fail for UMD to be useful, unless you are going for heal scrolls for self-healing or want to be able to tank heal. I am even going for UMD on my 6 CHA barbarian who can't use scrolls raged because I hate not having unlimited teleport.

    Wizard is one of the least-UMD-dependent classes, being able to use fire shield, teleport, and self-heal without UMD, but it is also the class with the most skill points so there is not much else to take... I even have some points in diplomacy and bluff to be able to hit the speech checks because I had already maxed everything I saw as useful in any way. So I wouldn't exactly call UMD points wasted on a wizard.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    It's hard as hell to get a non UMD classed toon to useful levels. After 20 levels, you end up with a score of close to 12, which isn't worth anything useful.

    I tried it on my PM wizzard, and I basically ended up with spent useless points. And if I tried to gear him up to make it useful, I would end up gimping him another area.

    It's easier on high charisma toons such as Sorcerers because of the Charisma bonus.

    Best bet is to just use UMD on a UMD classed toon so you don't suffer penalties, and it ends up being non gear intensive.

    Im sure someone will come along and tell you that Im wrong and that it is really easy when it's not. It might be "easy" for some, but in general terms its pretty hard unless you spend all of you time and lives on one toon. Then it can be "easier".

    Good luck.
    Why some will say this is easy and others hard UMD of a scroll generally is 18 + (2xCaster Level) Exception is Artificer Scrolls

    11 Ranks UMD
    02 Charisma (8 base a +6 Charisma Item)
    04 Greater Heroism
    ==
    18 UMD

    Again 18 is currently achievable having an 8 starting charisma and a +6 Item at 20th level

    Scroll Level (Except Artificer)
    1. 95% 20 UMD [1d20 + 18 vs 18 + (2*1)]
    2. 75% 24 UMD [1d20 + 18 vs 18 + (2*3)]
    3. 55% 28 UMD [1d20 + 18 vs 18 + (2*5)]


    Now other sources that can help boost UMD that are easier to acquire - or in other words are not RARE items

    • +1 from Charisma Tome <- Available as a 1750 Favor Reward, AH, Loot and End rewards (oh yay DDO Store)
    • Necklace from Deliara's Series - +3 UMD Skill it is an end reward at the completion of the series and is available to anyone - ML 7
    • Command Item +2 Charisma Skills (Does not stack with Delira's necklace on UMD but does help other charisma skills
    • +6 Shroud Exceptional Charisma Skill item - While this is more useful when it is fully tiered it is incrementally useful as well. - ML 11 [Does require access to ingredients common in the Shroud and other demon related quests, while possible to obtain in First life generally this is something you farm ingredients for]
    • +1/+2 Luck Item
    • +2 from Bard Songs - Not permanent but usually available when ever a bard is present
    • +1 Ship buffs


    List above is 15 more without rare, even or raid items

    That would Bring the 18 to 33 UMD
    1. 100% 20 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*1)]
    2. 100% 24 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*3)]
    3. 100% 28 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*5)]
    4. 100% 32 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*7)]
    5. 90% 36 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*9)]
    6. 70% 40 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*11)]
    7. 50% 44 UMD [1d20 + 33 vs 18 + (2*13)]


    Keep in mind a "useful" UMD is still arbitrary on a person to define it. If you are a Wizard going for No Fail Heal Scroll, then yes the 70% success rate might not fit your definition. However, If your a wizard looking to reduce your potion dependency then 70% looks pretty good as a Heal or even Harm scroll for PM could be a method of getting some HP back.

    So what is a useful UMD? It can be argued that 50% is still rather useful, its does have a failure potential, but it can also succeed just as often.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordRavnos View Post
    I have heard about this but never experienced it myself once. Is it supposed to be a 100% of the time guaranteed bug or just a most people are effect bug? Over 10 characters, all with UMD, none of them experience this.

    To the OP, no its not too late, put all your points next few levels and you will max it out, then get the gear and spells as said and you can get it right up there fast
    Have you tested it on a melee toon in Master Artificer (fighting purple while the shield is up and with GH cast on you)? I find most players simply cannot move whenever the titan moves.


    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    It's hard as hell to get a non UMD classed toon to useful levels. After 20 levels, you end up with a score of close to 12, which isn't worth anything useful.

    I tried it on my PM wizzard, and I basically ended up with spent useless points. And if I tried to gear him up to make it useful, I would end up gimping him another area.

    It's easier on high charisma toons such as Sorcerers because of the Charisma bonus.

    Best bet is to just use UMD on a UMD classed toon so you don't suffer penalties, and it ends up being non gear intensive.

    Im sure someone will come along and tell you that Im wrong and that it is really easy when it's not. It might be "easy" for some, but in general terms its pretty hard unless you spend all of you time and lives on one toon. Then it can be "easier".

    Good luck.
    There is a big difference between level 20 and level 25.

    At 25 you have 5 more UMD (from epic levels), access to higher Cha bonuses on items, and so on.

    Here's what a Wiz25 with some raidloot might look like:

    Cha: 14 base (recommended if you have UMD), +3 tome, +7 Cha (on a lot of old epics and also on some high-end random loot like Cha 7 of Resistance 7 or Cha 7 of Major Luck) = +7 bonus
    Ranks: 16 (23 total)
    Greater Heroism: 4 (27 total)
    Good Luck augment or Major Luck item: 2 (29)
    Shroud item (Concordant Opposition with 5 UMD and 150 exceptional SP): 5 (34)

    Note that this doesn't include a Persuasion item. Some Wizards choose to use the Epic Cloak of the Silver Concord for this reason.

    Probably forgetting things, but that's a 95% chance to Raise Dead, and a 55% chance for in-combat use of Resurrection. Add in external buffs or unreliable things (airship buffs etc) and you might even reach 100% Heal scrolls without a Persuasion item and definitely can with one.
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  17. #17

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    Thanks for all the info and advice. Looks like it's going to be awhile before UMD is useful. In the mean time, I have plenty of plat so I bought a stack of 50 CMW potions. Gut genug.
    FYI, when I summon an earth elemental, it's not a "he," it's a "she." And her name is Pebbles.

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