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  1. #1
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    Default Epic Elite Detour Sneak Attack damage is overtuned

    The amount of sneak attack mobs are dishing out in Epic Elite Detour is too much. Bringing melee characters is a liability when CR54 mobs are dealing 460 damage.
    Last edited by Carpone; 11-17-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    Fortification?
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    Fortification?
    This. You are meant to have high fortification. As in, well over 100%. Twist in brace for impact, heavy fort item, and an exceptional fort item and you should be fine.

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    125% fort and not facepulling can go a long way.
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    Community Member skullzz's Avatar
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    if the mob is cr 54 then one needs 154% fortification.
    Only those that are specced for that much fort can get that much and that is only those building tanks.
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    and a 125% still goes a long way .. though not a far as not facepulling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullzz View Post
    if the mob is cr 54 then one needs 154% fortification.
    Only those that are specced for that much fort can get that much and that is only those building tanks.
    Or, you can twist Brace for Impact. 40% Fort, pretty much you will only need 15% extra fort from a random loot item to be completely immune.

    However, even 140% is high enough to not notice them.

  8. #8
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    154% Fortification is not realistic for melee, even twisting it in.

    We're not face pulling. Invis and running Benson into a pack to take aggro is the best way to avoid the ridonkulos damage mobs are doing, but it's not 100% effective.
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    Community Member skullzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Or, you can twist Brace for Impact. 40% Fort, pretty much you will only need 15% extra fort from a random loot item to be completely immune.

    However, even 140% is high enough to not notice them.
    However, though that is pigeon-holing people into making the same build on every melee.
    There are more things that people can twist that are more useful then that 1 twist.

    Take for example a Barbarian.
    I feel
    Momentum Swing
    Lay Waste
    Either Critical Damage/ Hail of Blows/ or those with stun Legendary Tactics.

    So to say people must have that much fort to be useful is just wrong, and causes people that are up front to feel useless since they now have to sit in the back since some divines refuse to heal even those drinking pots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    154% Fortification is not realistic for melee, even twisting it in.

    We're not face pulling. Invis and running Benson into a pack to take aggro is the best way to avoid the ridonkulos damage mobs are doing, but it's not 100% effective.
    Why not?

    Brace for Impact for an easy 40%, 15% random loot gen = 155% Fort.

    Now, if you don't wanna lose a bit of DPS for it, it's another story and up to you. But saying that isn't realistic is just false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skullzz View Post
    However, though that is pigeon-holing people into making the same build on every melee.
    There are more things that people can twist that are more useful then that 1 twist.

    Take for example a Barbarian.
    I feel
    Momentum Swing
    Lay Waste
    Either Critical Damage/ Hail of Blows/ or those with stun Legendary Tactics.

    So to say people must have that much fort to be useful is just wrong, and causes people that are up front to feel useless since they now have to sit in the back since some divines refuse to heal even those drinking pots.
    Lose DPS for Survavibility. Noone is pigeon-holing anyone into anything. If you don't wanna get SA, you get more Fort. Or else you stop complaining. Must have fort? Of course it's a MUST have. Didn't you also have Heavy fort back at level 20?

    You have a choice. Now, you don't wanna twist Brace for Impact, it's up to you, but you COULD and SHOULD. If not, accept the fact that you will be critted and SA'ed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Why not?

    Brace for Impact for an easy 40%, 15% random loot gen = 155% Fort.

    Now, if you don't wanna lose a bit of DPS for it, it's another story and up to you. But saying that isn't realistic is just false.
    Requiring characters to twist in a specific ability is the definition of design failure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Requiring characters to twist in a specific ability is the definition of design failure.
    Requiring characters to slot Heavy fort isn't a design failure but getting more Fort is? That isn't the definition of design failure, that is your OWN definition of design failure.

    Get 2 random loot gen items, 15%/25% fort if you don't want to twist anything. Tell the melees to get their EE Leaves of the Forest THIS if they can wear Medium Armor. Twist it in.

    See how many choices? Pick one. You don't, you pay the consequences.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Requiring characters to twist in a specific ability is the definition of design failure.
    It is one option. You could bring a tank. You could have enough hp to survive that hit and get healed, using your fort to mitigate the damage. You could cc them. Lots of options. People are simply offering you the easiest option that doesn't stress a healer or depend on others. It is not a design failure to require people to trade dps to damage mitigation. A design failure would be full-dps on every character being the solution to everything.

  15. #15
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    You don't need to twist anything.
    Just get an item.
    (EE) Leaves of the forest gives you 150% fort, problem essentially solved.

    Also, to whoever keeps posting about 15% fort on lootgen, it doesn't exist.
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  16. #16
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    I'm in the bard ed atm on my lvl 24 rogue. Pugged elite Detour .. 2 rogues, 2 wizards, cleric, paladin. We had 10 deaths total .. 5 in one pull because of a derf facepull done by one of the wizards. Since I'm in the bard tree I took the single target cc Siren's Song. That alone saved several deaths. With two rogues in the group .. the group could have easily bluff pulled initially to thin the melee mobs numbers .... but the wizards would have none of that.

    The damage the mobs are doing isn't the problem .. I personally think it's pretty well tuned. Having a 10 mob pull without focusing fire, ccing, etc is bound to increase the challenge significantly.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    You don't need to twist anything.
    Just get an item.
    (EE) Leaves of the forest gives you 150% fort, problem essentially solved.
    I'll be sure to let the sorcerers in on this 'secret'. It's not like they care about arcane casting failures, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    You could have enough hp to survive that hit and get healed, using your fort to mitigate the damage.
    No you can't, and that's exactly the problem. 971 HP melee Favored Soul takes three quick hits to drop to half and cannot get a quickened Heal off before the mobs finish you off. Been there, died several times and made the rage post.

    You could cc them.
    A 48 enchant DC (a reasonable amount) is subpar in that quest.

    Lack of tactics is not the problem. Overtuned damage + long and uninteresting quest = will never run it again once I get the drops I want.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Requiring characters to twist in a specific ability is the definition of design failure.
    Necro/enchantment based casters are basically enforced to twist 2 spell pen abilities and be an elf or have 3-6 PLs. This is no worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    A 48 enchant DC (a reasonable amount) is subpar in that quest.
    Reasonable isn't exactly where you should be aiming for when doing EE.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 11-19-2012 at 06:32 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    I'll be sure to let the sorcerers in on this 'secret'. It's not like they care about arcane casting failures, right?
    So, that sorcerer prefer to be dead in 1-2 hit with a crit rather than losing some Spell Power?

    And you haven't answered my question: why can't he wear a 10/15/25% random gen exceptional fort item? Even just one is better than nothing. Also, if you pull them one at time and Enervation them, they are easily CC'ed or instakilled.

    I have an air savant and I have Brace for Impact twisted.

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