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Thread: Weapon Finess.

  1. #1
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    Default Weapon Finess.

    I think i have made a rather big mistake with my rogue. Hes lvl 20 and I thought that getting the feat Weapon Finesse would mean that the damage i do would be based of the amount of dex i have (39) however the amount of damage i do is about 20 per hit when facing an enemy. Have i got the description wrong?

    You can use your Dexterity bonus instead of Strength bonus to determine bonus to attack with certain weapons if it is higher.

    Any advice would be great thanx

  2. #2
    Community Member Yvonnel-1's Avatar
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    its used for the attack bonus, not the damage mod! for damage still the strength counts.
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    Community Member Lord_kNiels's Avatar
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    You use strength for two things. Once to your to-hit bonus which determines if your make a hit or a miss and once for the damage roll which if you hit determines the amount of damage you deal.
    The weapon finesse only changes the to-hit to be dex based. Your damage is still based on strength.

    To fix it you have several options. Firstly as a rogue your sneak attack ensures you that the lack of strength doesn't make your damage completely useless. I assume you are a casual player, so I will not give you advice towards elite endgame. (Apologies if this assumption is not correct.)
    There are now quite a few weapons that offer dex to damage (not too many options but some good ones. Try epic midnights greetings as you are level 20 now).
    If you haven't used your free lesser reincarnation yet you could try make your rogue strength based. This also allows you to fix other things that you might not be completely happy with.
    You could true reincarnate into a rogue again (34p builds usually let you do just what you couldn't fit in your first life build). However if you haven't done this before and don't have a bunch of gear to help you out on the way this could ruin your game experience.

    Common for the two latter suggestions is that it takes a LOT of planning. You shouldn't just go ahead and do it with no idea of what you are going into.

    But for now I'd advise you to get gear that adds to your damage and strength and let you see how it works out. I have played with a lot of dex-based rogues and if you make up for their weakness they make a viable character.

  4. #4

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    Grab some envenomed blades now while you farm up some midnight greetings.

    While this will fix your damage mod to work from dex, those weapons will make weapon finesse a wasted feat since they also make your attack roll work from dex.

    In DDO, "attack" always means "to hit."

  5. #5
    Community Member Lord_kNiels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Grab some envenomed blades now while you farm up some midnight greetings.

    While this will fix your damage mod to work from dex, those weapons will make weapon finesse a wasted feat since they also make your attack roll work from dex.

    In DDO, "attack" always means "to hit."
    Even if using those weapons the finesse feat is not a waste if your dex is much higher than your strength. It allows you to swap in some offhand weapons with a nice tactical bonus or otherwise helpful effect.

    To OP: If you find yourself running a lot of the same content try noting what monsters dominate those quests and find yourself a weapon of fitting greater bane and a high enhancement bonus. A +5 weapon of greater bane will then act as a +9 weapon increasing your damage by a nice amount.
    As said there are quite a few ways to overcome this weakness of your character.

    EDIT: This link has a list of the items with a special modifier. Not sure if all are included, but it could help you decide what weapons to get.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_weap...or_damage_mods
    Last edited by Lord_kNiels; 11-17-2012 at 06:03 AM.

  6. #6

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    It always amazes me how many people see something called "weapon FINESSE" and assume it will increase damage. Do people not understand what Finesse means?
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    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    It's the description.

    Most games use "attack" to mean damage.

    D&D uses "attack" to mean accuracy.

    It's easy to see where the mix up occurs.
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    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Weapon Finesse is never worth taking. It needs a Power Critical-style boost, it's just a player trap now.

  9. #9
    Community Member phroggiepuddles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_kNiels View Post
    ...If you haven't used your free lesser reincarnation yet ...
    I started playing in late Aug/early Sept 2012 - where does this free LR come from? I haven't heard anything about it and would love to LR my first 28 build toon (currently level 23) who I will TR but still need to farm the tokens for.

  10. #10
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azurchaos View Post
    I think i have made a rather big mistake with my rogue. Hes lvl 20 and I thought that getting the feat Weapon Finesse would mean that the damage i do would be based of the amount of dex i have (39) however the amount of damage i do is about 20 per hit when facing an enemy. Have i got the description wrong?

    You can use your Dexterity bonus instead of Strength bonus to determine bonus to attack with certain weapons if it is higher.

    Any advice would be great thanx
    It depends on what type of rogue you are. The one main reason for going the finesse route is because you want to take advantage of having a high DEX score - something that is pretty much essential for a rogue.

    I too was also somewhat diasppointed with my finesse rogue based on the little floatie numbers I saw rising from the mobs I was attacking. The tradeoff with finesse that isn't really mentioned is that you substitute taking damage with a high DEX score, and land more hits with TWF. On average, you don't do as much per hit, but you can stay in there longer, and open up some different damage-dealing opportunities.

    Where your strong points are going to be is in making hits, doing Sneak Attack damage, and "vorpal" hits. An Assassin III gives any hit the vorpal effect, so you can essentially land a couple of vorpals per turn. As someone mentioned, if you dual-wield Envenomed Blades, you double your chance to paralyze your opponents, as well as a poison dealdly strike that inflicts 10d6 poison damage on a target and/or a poison crit strike. In the Vale wilderness areas, with a rogue dual-wielding Envenomed Blades, I could sit there and hammer away on three mobs at once, making sure I alternate between them, and hardly take any damage at all. Or, in a few instances have two vorpals occur within a couple of swings, in addition to all the other damage I was doing.

    I used to be disappointed as to what I'd see hitting the training dummy, and then scratch my head as to why I was number 1 or number 2 in the kill count of many quests. It is because the training dummy is not representitive as to how I'm dealing damage in the quest.

    If you are a rogue Mechanic, and you are a heavy repeater user, STR is completely nullified - along with every other stat - as a damage modifier, but DEX still remains an attack modifier. Finess means nothing until you go into melee, but if you do the repeater thing right, you won't have to melee. Plus, with constructs, you get smites (vorpal strikes) and extra damage. Sure, strength would be nice to have on every hit, however, the smites somewhat make up for that.

    With the Thief Acrobat, a DEX modifier is added to your SA damage with a quarterstaff, which is different than "finesse," but applicable since both require the use of DEX as a modifier. Again, strength would be nice, but just about every rogue knows that a majority of your DPS is going to come from SA damage, and not straight-up melee.

    While there are lots of good arguments for STR based rogues, having one that uses Finesse does not make them "gimp." You simply have to modify how you play. Look for weapons that give you a DEX modifier to damage (of which there are painfully few), use stealth and sneak attacks, use Bluff in a melee to invoke a sneak attack, carry vorpal / smiter weapons, cursespewing weapons, or anything that benefits from just making a hit. Take advantage of that high DEX score.

    Edit: For clarification, yes I know that the assassin vorpal effect is only on a confirmed crit.
    Last edited by squishwizzy; 11-20-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    If you are a rogue Mechanic, and you are a heavy repeater user, STR is completely nullified - along with every other stat - as a damage modifier, but DEX still remains an attack modifier. Finess means nothing until you go into melee, but if you do the repeater thing right, you won't have to melee. Plus, with constructs, you get smites (vorpal strikes) and extra damage. Sure, strength would be nice to have on every hit, however, the smites somewhat make up for that..
    hehe, mechanics get INT to dmg with xbows, so there is a stat to boost your damage as a mechanic.

    thats why the arti/mechanic I mix is interesting, you wouldnt have to choose between INT for dmg or INT for attack, the mechanic I gives you INT for dmg letting you use the INT for attack spell thus allowing you to dump DEX. add in insightful reflexes and evasion would kick in at full utility
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by phroggiepuddles View Post
    I started playing in late Aug/early Sept 2012 - where does this free LR come from? I haven't heard anything about it and would love to LR my first 28 build toon (currently level 23) who I will TR but still need to farm the tokens for.
    Talk to the same NPC you would if you bought a lesser heart. In his dialogue options there is a choice to use your free LR.

    Note that you don't get to change any levels; it's equivalent to a +0 lesser heart. Also, but sure to take any banked levels and spend any unspent AP, both enhancements and destiny points. Doing so will help minimize potential bugs, which in rare cases can be pretty severe.

  13. #13
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    hehe, mechanics get INT to dmg with xbows, so there is a stat to boost your damage as a mechanic.

    thats why the arti/mechanic I mix is interesting, you wouldnt have to choose between INT for dmg or INT for attack, the mechanic I gives you INT for dmg letting you use the INT for attack spell thus allowing you to dump DEX. add in insightful reflexes and evasion would kick in at full utility
    True.

    However, I was trying to keep my points in line with DEX as opposed to STR. A high INT on a rogue really doesn't suck either.
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