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  1. #1
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Default Think twice about joining EE raids and quests

    Can you survive AND positively contribute to a successful outcome in a timely matter? If you aren't completely confident, think twice. It's totally ok to tell the LFM host that you don't know the content well or ask what you need to bring. But if you're not a good fit for the party, there's no need (nor is it constructive) to harass the party leader. Unfit could mean a lot of things, including but not limited to: not enough HP, not self-sufficient enough, not knowledgeable enough, insufficient gear/pots, not the right build for the situation, taking too long to get to the quest (being the last to join the party and spending 10+ minutes in the crafting hall asking crafting questions in party chat while the rest of the raid party is waiting inside the raid for example), etc. If you're really interested in exploring the endgame, then be more fit.

    EE raids and quests are no place to pike. Some HE raids also fall into this category: Elite Abbot and Elite ToD come to mind.

    We all play to have fun. If I host an LFM, I will try my best not to waste your time, and I do expect reciprocation.

    Honestly, I used to screen (via myddo and "do you have DR-breakers?") more for Shroud in the early days of the server than I do now for EE raids and quests. Typically I'll just take the first X number of PuGs that apply, but I do have the expectation that applicants have some clue about the content and requirements if the posted LFM is for EE.

    The current design of the game makes Casual to EH a snoozefest, and EE challenging for the best geared parties. There's almost an order of magnitude difference. It's a challenge. Challenge is fun. Dealing with lag is frustrating. Dealing with clearly unprepared willful pikers is frustrating. Frustrating is not fun.

    Like all PSAs on the forums, I'm sure this won't reach the eyes of the intended audience. But I felt like saying something anyway.
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 11-16-2012 at 12:34 PM.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  2. #2
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    Show us on the doll where the bad puggles touched you.

  3. #3
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobril View Post
    show us on the doll where the bad puggles touched you.
    hahahahaha

    +1

  4. #4
    Community Member laniza's Avatar
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    So I guess that EEvon I saw yesterday in the social panel went.....well
    “DDO Tip #321 : Wait till the Beholder blinks"

  5. #5
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laniza View Post
    So I guess that EEvon I saw yesterday in the social panel went.....well
    Oh no, that went well, 1 round of eggs, nice and smooth. Only deaths was 2 from the same melee that couldn't survive fire breath but stayed in, twice. I only declined one toon, a rogue who would've been one-shotted by a mean stare from Velah or her Claws.

    The mocking tone of some of the responses is curious. But the LFM panel is versatile: People use it to learn quests, to teach quests, to look for healers/trappers/dps. People use the LFM to look for other people with similar interests and goals in order to have a more enjoyable experience. Some players are casual. Some players are permadeathers or roleplayers. Some players are TR junkies or altaholics. Some people are endgamers. Each should be allowed to play as they like. Having reasonable expectations and understanding expectations goes a long way to maximizing the probability of mutual enjoyment.

    It's a pretty low bar to expect PuGs to contribute instead of being a liability, to expect PuGs who'll listen and want to learn - mind you, I'm not talking about LFMs in general, I'm talking about LFMs explicitly advertized for the most challenging difficulties. For my part, I'm always open to suggestions, and I'm always looking for better ways to do things.
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 11-16-2012 at 12:31 PM.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  6. #6

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    While i don't generally run EE content (Specifically for the reasons Key listed above). I think this post raises a lot of good points, and I can only hope that people actually read it and take it to heart.
    Orien - Ygritte, Obara. Others who aren't worth mentioning

  7. #7
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    Venting is good and all, just don't expect to change people.

    If they're going to be cool and try they will. If they're going to
    pike and be otherwise useless there usually isn't much you
    can do about it especially in this era of FTP.

    (not blaming FTP people, just saying the game took a drastic
    turn for the different when that happened.)


    You're not the first person to have this issue.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=308974

  8. #8
    Community Member laniza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Oh no, that went well, 1 round of eggs, nice and smooth. Only deaths was 2 from the same melee that couldn't survive fire breath but stayed in, twice. I only declined one toon, a rogue who would've been one-shotted by a mean stare from Velah or her Claws.

    The mocking tone of some of the responses is curious.
    I thought your post was for EE von5 and EH von6? Anyways that's not the point.....

    Key, you know I love you (well maybe love is a bit too strong of a word but you got the point ) but the issue you are presenting while very valid is one of those "duh" issues. People join hard content while having no clue, people roll healers that don't heal and people do all kind of weird stuff for lootz. And while it all can be really frustrating its one of those things that happened in the past, are probably happening right now in this moment and will continue to happen in the future. I know I cant change that so I chose to make fun of it ("it" = not people but the situation)... Hope I satisfied your curiosity
    Last edited by laniza; 11-16-2012 at 03:38 PM.
    “DDO Tip #321 : Wait till the Beholder blinks"

  9. #9
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobril View Post
    Venting is good and all, just don't expect to change people.
    Quote Originally Posted by laniza View Post
    Hope I satisfied your curiosity
    Oh yea, I'm just venting a bit and I know full well no one comes to the forums and experiences a sudden paradigm shift.

    I'm not good at typing a lot of instructions or responding to tells while playing, but I do make the effort to explain a lot over voice, not just what to do but why.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  10. #10
    Community Member ShaitainFerenczy's Avatar
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    As always Key, I enjoy reading your posts. I typically end up learning something new and it helps me when I go to try a harder difficulty than I normally try.
    Welcome to the Dark Side...
    We have Oreos and waffles.

  11. #11
    Community Member Nerveya's Avatar
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    Woah woah... woah. Oreos AND waffles? What about Oreo Waffles?
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmDesolator3 View Post
    I'm pretty hardcore

  12. #12
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Very eloquent. And +1.

    However?
    As long as there is loot that says EPIC ELITE on the upper right?

    ...The little Stoners will b ring ding dinging in...
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  13. #13
    The Hatchery
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    The people who intentionally join groups for content they're obviously not ready to run likely do not use the forums, but the points you make are sound.

  14. #14
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    I have a collection of screenshots from the few EE pugs I've hosted.

    It's remarkable the people who hit them.

    Tide Turns:
    Pug 1: "What house?"
    Me: "House D"
    Pug 1: "In house D what's name of entrance?"

    Ahahaha. He didn't die either. Didn't kill anything, but with his trusty FvS hireling, he didn't die.

    Bargain of Blood shortly after was fun too.

    Pug 2: "Hello can you share quest?"
    Me: "Just did - you allegedly already have it"
    Pug 2: "Where is it?"
    Me: "Searing Heights"

    Quest ends about 10 minutes later with pug still not in. Oh well.

    They're better in screenshot form, but I still haven't got around to editing out the names.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    All of my builds are grossly out of date. Just roll a human or drow mechanic / assassin rogue thing.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  15. #15
    Community Member blackzombie's Avatar
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    Smile

    hey key, maybe u r talking about ur abbot that i join some days ago...
    well, i rly dont have much experience in abbot, just know roids puzzle and can handle a wand
    wasnt trying to pike also, an was a little slumber that day...

    when u kick me without any tells or tips, or whatever, i send you a tell asking why, but was nothing harass
    idk if it rly about that day, but anyway, i dont mind to be kicked anymore, just like to know why and will be fine by me

    but if its not about that day, so thats a msg for some ppls, i already had some problems with some players, and im apologize, rly
    maybe was a missunderstud, or some noob thing i made, or i was in a bad day, idk, just rly sry for ppl who have problems with me but it happens, just avoid me, but if u dont, i am better than i was and an easy person now

    sry by my bad english, hope ppl can understand it

    have a good game
    Last edited by blackzombie; 11-17-2012 at 06:00 AM.
    blackzombie- wizard, madzombie twf blitz, leveling a cleric occ and a wf barb ----------ORIEN

  16. #16
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobril View Post
    Show us on the doll where the bad puggles touched you.

    You won this thread!
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  17. #17
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    /signed.

    But if you aren't sure, don't be afraid to ask. I'll happily take someone that's never run an EE quest before and isn't geared into EE VON1, Last Stand, Impossible Demands or Unquiet Graves, as long as they are willing to do their best to follow some basic tactics. And yes, I'll even take the first-life 23rd level Barb swinging a random lootgen +6 Greataxe of Mauling if they have the very basics of gear covered (Heavy Fort, Resistance 5, +7 Str item, 120%+ incoming divine healing).

    On the other hand, if you want to join an EE ADQ1, you'd better be wearing mostly second-best-in-slot or better gear.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  18. #18
    Community Member Mephisto-Helix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackzombie View Post
    hey key, maybe u r talking about ur abbot that i join some days ago...
    well, i rly dont have much experience in abbot, just know roids puzzle and can handle a wand
    wasnt trying to pike also, an was a little slumber that day...

    when u kick w/o any tells or tips, or whatever i send you a tell asking why, but nothing harass
    idk if it rly about that day, but anyway, i dont mind to be kicked anymore, just like to know why and will be fine by me

    but if its not about that day, so thats a msg for some ppls, i already had some problems with some players, and im apologize, rly
    maybe was a missunderstud, or some noob thing i made, or i was in a bad day, idk, just rly sry for ppl who have problems with me
    i am better than i was and more mature also

    sry by my bad english, hope ppl can understand it ( was trying to show it a much time but have some shame of create a treat hehe)

    have a good game
    In my opinion, it's way more lame to kick people as stated above. Kicking for stupid reason or bothering to let the person know anything is certainly not prevalent but I've seen it enough on Orien to know who the main culprits are. The only place they can feel power, shame.

    I've gotten hella mad at situations before (slow people, pikers, etc) but I have never stooped as low as to boot. Grow up.

  19. #19
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephisto-Helix View Post
    I've gotten hella mad at situations before (slow people, pikers, etc) but I have never stooped as low as to boot. Grow up.
    So... once you've taken the blind leap of faith to accept PuGs you don't know, you are OBLIGATED to keep all of them FOREVER???

    The game won't let you kick anyone inside a quest. I've kicked people:
    (1) Recently the aforementioned PuG who was idling in the crafting hall for 10+ min asking crafting questions in party chat while the rest of the raid party was waiting inside the raid.
    (2) While window-farming. If someone can't keep up, or actively slows down a window farm, I'll let them go if possible before the next run. (Not always possible if quest entrance is in a wilderness, like Orchard or Desert.)
    (3) After a raid wipe. If a raid wipes and has to be restarted, I might drop someone who sabotaged the run (healer who has taken an afk meal break in ToD pt3), wasn't communicating (in Abbot you must listen AND be intelligible), piking, or otherwise would make the repeat painful (the zerging WF Frenzied Berserker with no remove curse pots and zero heal amp, no healer's friend) or likely to fail again.

    I'll tell you a secret. I squelch people too. It's an in-game function.

    I've not only my own time and sanity to consider, but if I'm hosting/leading a group, I do owe the whole group my consideration, not just the weakest link. It may be a power trip for some, but I'm just being pragmatic and trying to consider the greater good. You can make some people happy some of the time, but you can't make everyone happy all of the time.
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 11-17-2012 at 07:53 AM.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  20. #20
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    now now Key, I know you declined more than 1 person on that Von since you declined me and i dont have a rogue.
    Orien: Caellwin ; Kwitzat ; Solertis
    The Myths

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