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  1. #21
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daikliave View Post
    now now Key, I know you declined more than 1 person on that Von since you declined me and i dont have a rogue.
    Indeed, I did take some noob Pally for the 12th spot. Tough choice... Bard or Pally...
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 11-17-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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  2. #22
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    I have been declined on my capped, CC-focused Wizzy because his being a first-life and human (two strikes!) mean that his DCs just aren't >quite< high enough to deal with EE mobs, especially the omnipresent Drow. I understand the reasoning behind being declined; people don't want to waste time undertaking an iffy proposition and not having CC up to snuff makes for an iffy proposition.

    However, there have been instances where I have applied to a group, been asked my DCs, been told that they were too low and been declined and see the very same group still waiting for an Arcane 15 or 20 minutes later. I have to ask, Is waiting for the 'perfect' really that much better than going with the 'good'? Isn't CC that is, say, 70% effective better than either going with zero CC at all or waiting 15 minutes for better to come along? For all I know, it is. Yes, I have done a handful of EEs since they came out (and many Epics before there were difficulty levels to them) and so I am at least faintly aware of the difficulty curve. I know that you can't just take the first 5 or 11 and go, the way you can with most, if not all, EN and EH content. But it sure seems to me that some progress beats no progress.
    In an election, always vote for the candidate who likes big butts....because, you know, they cannot lie.

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  3. #23
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    including but not limited to: ... not self-sufficient enough,
    yay!
    another BYOH thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Grease is the only party buff
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    talk about your exploits
    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    DDO is not PnP. This is by design

  4. #24
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMond63 View Post
    I have been declined on my capped, CC-focused Wizzy because his being a first-life and human (two strikes!) mean that his DCs just aren't >quite< high enough to deal with EE mobs, especially the omnipresent Drow. I understand the reasoning behind being declined; people don't want to waste time undertaking an iffy proposition and not having CC up to snuff makes for an iffy proposition.

    However, there have been instances where I have applied to a group, been asked my DCs, been told that they were too low and been declined and see the very same group still waiting for an Arcane 15 or 20 minutes later. I have to ask, Is waiting for the 'perfect' really that much better than going with the 'good'? Isn't CC that is, say, 70% effective better than either going with zero CC at all or waiting 15 minutes for better to come along? For all I know, it is. Yes, I have done a handful of EEs since they came out (and many Epics before there were difficulty levels to them) and so I am at least faintly aware of the difficulty curve. I know that you can't just take the first 5 or 11 and go, the way you can with most, if not all, EN and EH content. But it sure seems to me that some progress beats no progress.
    Are you saying you can't do the job, or you can do the job, just slowly? Reputation and experience are important. If you PuG a lot and prove yourself, including possibly leading your own groups, then you should have no problem continuing to find high caliber groups to complete EE quests and raids. There's no reason a well built, well geared, and well played first-life wizard can't be effective in EE content. He's a manhole, but here's an example of a first-life that can get the job done in EE content: my.ddo.com/character/orien/shataman/

    On the other hand, if you can't get the job done. If you can't CC or instakill, then is the group better off with you (in a slow, frustrating, tedious crawl or wipe) or without you (waiting for an effective caster)?

    It's not always possible, but I do like to fill all quest/raid critical roles with players I know. Of course I don't know that many PuGs any more, so I rely on my guildies. On point with the OP, when I host LFMs, I sometimes ask in guild/channel/party chat about some applicants I don't know. People will have a positive, negative, or neutral assessment. Ultimately, you just have to get yourself out there. If you want to play the most challenging content, stay open-minded and observant. Learn from examples that impress you and distinguish good advice from bad advice. There's a lot of bad advice out there.
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 11-18-2012 at 08:43 AM.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  5. #25
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    yay!
    another BYOH thread!
    yay!
    another forum original!
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  6. #26
    Community Member ~Quilny's Avatar
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    Default Props for the over whelming patience

    Props for the over whelming patience to not just Key but to all raid leaders that are currently accepting pugs. This Thread was [PSA] meant for the general public not singling anyone out or making fun of anyone.

    I just was in a EH CITW where 5 People where in Off destinies 1 wizards was in shiradi level 1 a bard that was in grand master flowers 0 ect ect..

    I used to party lead / raid lead daily I try my hardest to join other peoples groups lately just to enjoy the game.

    People who complain about not getting a explaination for why they got declined doesn't suprise me but to expect a response and getting upset when you do not is very odd to me.

    for those who have hosted a raid before know exactly what I am talking about. you have guild chat channel chat people applying people sending tells before they swap toons and apply ect ect... very busy trying to get everything together.


    person 1 applies and they are on blacklist you decline
    person 2 applies and is a fvs6/cleric6/sorc8 you decline
    person 3 applies you just ran a 6man with him and s/he was drunk you decline
    person 4 applies you have ran witht hem in the past and they complained about a friend of yours whos in raid and you want to prevent drama you decline
    person 5 joins 20fighter 200hp you boot
    person 6 joins asks where the quest is and if they needed to be flagged


    all 6 of these people want answers and your screen is flooded with messges from channels and tells and you just filled people are heading into quest and people are asking for your directions.

    do you ignore tells and lead the raid or do you take 10min to respond to tells to people on why they got removed or declined?
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  7. #27
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    Isn't CC that is, say, 70% effective better than either going with zero CC at all or waiting 15 minutes for better to come along?
    I have a CC wizard, and coze i play a lot on him for a very long time, i saw many rediculus things coming from both wizards thinking they can CC and party leaders thinking they know how to recognize wizard that can CC..

    When chronoscope was relesed, many party leaders asked wizards about their DCs (requiered DC back then was 40-42)... but only few of them asked about wizards spell penetration which was way more important then DC in that paticular raid.
    The same thing goes for EE quests with drows inside - First of all you need spell pen - and this is begining and the end of technical requirements (coze web isnt much effective when enemy casters are nuking ground).
    If you dont have required DCs to hold drows on EE in place of casting multiple ineffective holds you can just run from mob to mob and dance them with otto irresistable. Starting with those who deal the most dmg to party (enemy casters and/or orange names)
    But you need spell pen for that.
    And even with this single otto irresistable you will be better then most caster pugs in EE when they are trying to CC and either cant breach drow SR or their DC are too low... but they keep casting and keep casting and keep casting with no CC effect...
    Otto irresistable + spell pen. Simple elegant solution.
    Altho you won't be able to keep against large groups of mobs... but then again there is class called bard in DDO ...with facinate - great help for caster without DCs.

    So yeh my point of view is that ppl are sometimes to demading towards beginers.
    Just grab a bard with facinate into group if you want CC that much... even gimpy bard can facinate those drows, but for wizards CCing them is much more demanding.

    And if you ask if going with 70% of CC is better then waiting and not doing quest - i think sometimes its better to grab another dps or healer then a caster that can do lets say 50% of CC in quest where CC is needed.

  8. #28
    Community Member eclipse668's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilny View Post
    do you ignore tells and lead the raid or do you take 10min to respond to tells to people on why they got removed or declined?
    copy paste a moderately polite text along the 'key-message': sorry, your toon does not match the minimum requirements to contribute/pike in my EE/EH Tempest Spine run.

    /r ctrl+v,
    (/r bye and hf.) <-- cheesy optional.

    its not realy hard to be strict _and_ polite. its the ignorance that leaves the impression you are an arrogant insecure and mean person (elitist jerk) that boots ppl to get a boost to their ego (/irony).

    to sum it up: when leading raids change your alignment from chaotic neutral to neutral evil ...

  9. #29
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    I have an opposite problem.

    I KNOW I am good for EE raids.
    665 HP rogue before any buffs or pots with Dreadnought ED, I have very very good DPS, self healing + scroll heals, good gear, experience, and good weapons for any situation (even got me dual Agonies. Still trying for the rapier.). etc.

    And I don't do stuff I think I am not ready for. Like my FvS is not ready heal an EE raid yet. Still very much a work in progress. But my rogue, whom is my first and still most favorite character, is ready.

    But I suffer from rejection anxiety. People still harbor doubts about rogues in top content. So last night I did not even apply to Randomise's EE CitW
    ~~ Adrunil - Rogue. Halfling, big guy you can't miss him. ~~
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    Orien server.

  10. #30
    Community Member RabidApathy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSFWEl View Post
    I have an opposite problem.

    I KNOW I am good for EE raids.
    665 HP rogue before any buffs or pots with Dreadnought ED, I have very very good DPS, self healing + scroll heals, good gear, experience, and good weapons for any situation (even got me dual Agonies. Still trying for the rapier.). etc.

    And I don't do stuff I think I am not ready for. Like my FvS is not ready heal an EE raid yet. Still very much a work in progress. But my rogue, whom is my first and still most favorite character, is ready.

    But I suffer from rejection anxiety. People still harbor doubts about rogues in top content. So last night I did not even apply to Randomise's EE CitW
    The pool of people who host EE raids is fairly small. You need to put yourself forth and prove yourself; Become known as a competent raider and getting into these raids will no longer be a problem. You'll still get declined from Normal Shrouds on a regular basis, but not from actually difficult content.

  11. #31
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Well said & YourDDO Link

    +1 and use this instead of MyDDO.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  12. #32
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidApathy View Post
    The pool of people who host EE raids is fairly small. You need to put yourself forth and prove yourself; Become known as a competent raider and getting into these raids will no longer be a problem. You'll still get declined from Normal Shrouds on a regular basis, but not from actually difficult content.
    Exactly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    +1 and use this instead of MyDDO.
    Wow, myddo is broken again, huh?

    http://ddocrafting.info/index.php?se...ookup!&p=myddo
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  13. #33
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Exactly.




    Wow, myddo is broken again, huh?

    http://ddocrafting.info/index.php?se...ookup!&p=myddo
    I wouldn't call it broke. It just doesn't show toons that are in epic levels with the new gear.

    Your DDO does show that stuff.
    The Fockers of Argo
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  14. #34
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSFWEl View Post
    But I suffer from rejection anxiety. People still harbor doubts about rogues in top content. So last night I did not even apply to Randomise's EE CitW
    The only way to make yourself known is to apply; the worst thing that can happen is you don't get it. I looked your character up, there really is no reason why you should be declined, and "Rogues aren't DPS" thinking has really been on the decline.

    And to raid leaders: please just tell them why you declined them. It'll help them and sometimes will clear up confusion. A few days ago I was declined from an EE DQ run. I asked why and the leader said they didn't want pew pew pew rogues; apparently I had logged out with a repeater equipped (artificer dilly). I explained and then got in.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Are you saying you can't do the job, or you can do the job, just slowly? Reputation and experience are important. If you PuG a lot and prove yourself, including possibly leading your own groups, then you should have no problem continuing to find high caliber groups to complete EE quests and raids. There's no reason a well built, well geared, and well played first-life wizard can't be effective in EE content. He's a manhole, but here's an example of a first-life that can get the job done in EE content: my.ddo.com/character/orien/shataman/
    My perception is that I can do most of the job. My DC is 48 for Mass Hold and Disco Ball and that can be bumped higher via Hypnosis or Mind Fog. It is not going to be done as quickly or as reliably as a multi-TR'ed character with multiple Wizard pastlives. If presented with the choice of my Wizard or one of those, no doublt I'd take the TR, as I expect most would.

    My question is, When the latter isn't available, why not go with someone who is capable, if not optimal, instead of waiting?

    On the other hand, if you can't get the job done. If you can't CC or instakill, then is the group better off with you (in a slow, frustrating, tedious crawl or wipe) or without you (waiting for an effective caster)?
    I think I understand this from both sides, and my inclination is that any progress beats no progress. Now, that said, I surely appreciate those who are just looking for certain loot that drops only in the end chests and such, so "progress" would be defined as, and only as, quest completion. Anything short of that is a waste of time.

    It's not always possible, but I do like to fill all quest/raid critical roles with players I know. Of course I don't know that many PuGs any more, so I rely on my guildies. On point with the OP, when I host LFMs, I sometimes ask in guild/channel/party chat about some applicants I don't know. People will have a positive, negative, or neutral assessment. Ultimately, you just have to get yourself out there. If you want to play the most challenging content, stay open-minded and observant. Learn from examples that impress you and distinguish good advice from bad advice. There's a lot of bad advice out there.
    Excellent advice no matter the content.
    In an election, always vote for the candidate who likes big butts....because, you know, they cannot lie.

    KCCO

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